Greece Analysis Greek - Turkish Relations

Kansei

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Militarization of Eastern Aegean Islands Contrary to the Provisions of International Agreements​

One of the basic issues between Turkey and Greece in the Aegean Sea is the demilitarized status of the Eastern Aegean Islands. The Eastern Aegean Islands are demilitarized by several international agreements which impose legal obligations binding upon Greece. The legal instruments setting up a demilitarized status for the Eastern Aegean Islands can be summarized from an historical perspective as follows :
a) 1913 Treaty of London : The future of the Eastern Aegean Islands have been left to the decision of Six Powers in Article 5 of the Treaty of London.
b) 1914 Decision of Six Powers: The islands of Lemnos, Samothrace, Lesvos, Chios, Samos, and Ikaria and others under Greek occupation as of 1914 were ceded to Greece by the 1914 Decision of Six Powers (Great Britain, France, Russia, Germany, Italy and Austria-Hungary) on the condition that they should be kept demilitarized.
c) 1923 Lausanne Peace Treaty: In Article 12 of the Lausanne Peace Treaty the 1914 Decision of Six Powers was confirmed.
Article 13 of the Laussane Treaty stipulated the modalities of the demilitarization for the islands of Lesvos, Chios, Samos, and Ikaria. It imposed certain restrictions related to the presence of military forces and establishment of fortifications which Greece undertook as a contractual obligation to observe stemming from this Treaty.
The Convention of the Turkish Straits annexed to the Laussanne Treaty further defined the demilitarized status of the islands of Lemnos and Samothrace. It stipulated a stricter regime for these islands, due to their vital importance to the security of Turkey by virtue of their close proximity to the Turkish Straits.
d) 1936 Montreux Convention: The Montreux Convention did not bring any change to the demilitarized status of these Islands. With the Protocol annexed to the said Convention, the demilitarized status of the Turkish Straits has been lifted to ensure the security of Turkey. In the Montreux Convention there is no clause regarding the militarization of the islands of Lemnos and Samothrace.
e) 1947 Paris Peace Treaty: The demilitarized status of Eastern Aegean Islands was once again confirmed in 1947 long after the Lausanne Treaty. The "Dodecanese Islands" namely Stampalia, Rhodes, Calki, Scarpanto, Casos, Piscopis, Nisiros, Calimnos, Leros, Patmos, Lipsos, Symi, Cos and Castellorizo were ceded to Greece on the explicit condition that they must remain demilitarized (Annex 6).
The demilitarization of the Eastern Aegean Islands was due to the overriding importance of these islands for Turkey's security. In fact, there is a direct linkage between the possession of sovereignty over those islands and their demilitarized status. Greece, in this respect, cannot unilaterally reverse this status under any pretext.
The above mentioned international treaties which are in force and thus binding upon Greece strictly forbid the militarization of Eastern Aegean Islands and bring legal obligations and responsibilities to Greece.
However, despite the protests of Turkey, Greece has been violating the status of the Eastern Aegean Islands by militarizing them since the 1960's in contravention of her contractual obligations. These illegal acts of Greece have increased considerably over the last years and became a vital dispute between the two countries. It is worthwhile to recall that Turkey's several appeals to Greece to respect the demilitarized status of these Islands have been disregarded so far.
From a mere point of view to respect international law, it should be underlined that Greece also introduced a reservation to the compulsory jurisdiction of International Court of Justice on the matters deriving from military measures concerning her "national security interests" when she accepted the Court’s jurisdiction in 1993. In so doing, Greece aims to prevent a dispute concerning the militarization of the islands to be referred to the International Court of Justice.

https://www.mfa.gov.tr/militarization-of-eastern-aegean-islands-contrary-tp-the-provisions-of-international-agreements.en.mfa#:~:text=The " Dodecanese Islands " namely Stampalia,remain demilitarized (Annex 6).


No country in the world will accept this ridiculous maximalist attitude, even tiny cyprus has a much bigger eez, thats not a fair share of eez, if you guys think anyone would accept this then you are out of your mind, international law is the law of the stronger one, thats what Turkey is doing, protecting its interests, nothing more nothing less.

View attachment 36652
You copy pasted Turkey's Official posistion on the matter but completely ignored what they have previously also aknowledged about Lemnos and Samothrace. I assume you don't have a problem with me just copy pasting Greece's arguments from wikipedia since you did the same for the Turkish Goverment:

Lemnos and Samothrace​

Greece holds that, by superseding the relevant sections of the earlier treaty, the convention simultaneously lifted also the Greek obligations with respect to these islands. Against this, Turkey argues that the Montreux treaty did not mention the islands and has not changed their status. Greece, on the other hand, cites Turkish official declarations, by the then Turkish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Rustu Aras, to that effect made in 1936, assuring the Greek side that Turkey would consider the Greek obligations lifted.

Dodecanese​

These islands were placed under a demilitarization statute after the Second World War by the Treaty of peace with Italy (1947), when Italy ceded them to Greece. Italy had previously not been under any obligation towards Turkey in this respect. Turkey, in turn, was not a party to the 1947 treaty, having been neutral during WWII. Greece therefore holds that the obligations it incurred towards Italy and the other parties in 1947 are res inter alios acta for Turkey in the sense of Article 34 of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, which states that a treaty does not create obligations or rights for a third country, and that Turkey thus cannot base any claims on them.

Lesbos, Chios, Samos, and Ikaria​

The remaining islands (Lesbos, Chios, Samos, and Ikaria) were placed under a partial demilitarization statute by the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923. It prohibited the establishment of naval bases and fortifications, but allowed Greece to maintain a limited military contingent recruited from the local population, as well as police forces.

Wikipedia goes on saying that Greece's position is of UN's articles on self defence blah blah blah but from what I understood it's an argument used on why they should be allowed just like with 12NM, not that they actually broke the Treaty since there are no naval bases or fortifications on those Islands from what I know of.

What I dont understand is why you people make this argument. Is it to prove that Greece having soldiers on small islands is a threat against mainland Turkey ? Do you legitimately beleive that Greece, a small country in the balkans, with it's 10 million population and negative population growth wants to go to war and go against Turkey with it's 84 million population and it's positive population growth, NATO and the U.S.A ?
First the argument made by Turks is that Greece is so insignificant that it's the US b*tch and would bend overbackwards for her, and that not only would it not do anything that will go against the U.S or even slightly incovinience them, but we take direct instructions from the U.S on our foreign policy and we "sell" our freedom and homeland to get in reward what other countries have recieved from the U.S only 100X (compared to Egypt) worse and for a bigger price.

Then the argument is that Turkey has a legitimate reason to be afraid of a Greek invasion in Turkey and go against her, NATO and the U.S?
 

Huelague

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One of the main arguments of Turkey in order to justify its aggression, provocations and piracy in the Eastern Mediterranean is its claim that it has the largest coastline in the region.
This is undoubtedly one of the most spread fake news by Turkey, with which it tries to convince the international public that Greece is violating its sovereign rights in the East Mediterranean despite having the largest coastline in the East Mediterranean.
According to the several sources (CIA’s “The World Factbook, wordatlas, mappr, etc)...... Greece has 13,676 km and Turkey has nearly half of that as Greece, with only 7,200 km.

View attachment 36675

Sweetheart, now try to count only continental shelf. 1600 km? And we have? 8000 km?
 

Huelague

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Again and again, the decision where the border will be signed and whom the island and EEZ will belong, will made on the battlefield. And this scenario come closer. Finally!
Btw, why we don’t immigrant more Turks to north Cyprus?
 

Kansei

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Again and again, the decision where the border will be signed and whom the island and EEZ will belong, will made on the battlefield. And this scenario come closer. Finally!
Btw, why we don’t immigrant more Turks to north Cyprus?
Jesus Christ, you Warmongers make me sick. You are want people to die for borders and economic zones ?
 

Akritas

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In this case, north-pole belongs to Russia.
Easy answer, as long as you are not stuck.

1638647186775.png


 

Akritas

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Again and again, the decision where the border will be signed and whom the island and EEZ will belong, will made on the battlefield. And this scenario come closer. Finally!
Btw, why we don’t immigrant more Turks to north Cyprus?
What are you waiting for do it ?
 
M

Manomed

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Are you fascist, that is a grey wolf supporter ?
Because this flyer is probably from ANTIFA supporters.
Any way this is irrelevant as regards the thread.
Grey wolf has nothing to do with fascism Its a punisher symbol for the Turks cope and seeth commie lover It literally says support pkk lmao :DDDDD
 

Akritas

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Let me remind you what is the so called United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)
The UNCLOS was signed in 1982, after many years of negotiations, and entered into force in 1994. It regulates all
uses of the oceans, including the delimitation of maritime zones and the exploitation of natural resources. More specifically:
  1. The criteria of the 200-meter isobath and the exploitation of the seabed in the 1958 convention were replaced by the criterion of a distance of up to 200 miles from the coast.
  2. Islands have full rights to maritime zones, including an EEZ and continental shelf. Rocks that do not have their own economic life were excluded. They were given only territorial waters.
    There are about 9,000 islands in the Aegean (including islets and rocks), 450 of which belong to Turkey, while the rest belong to Greece. About 100 Greek and 7 Turkish islands are inhabited.
  3. No specific delimitation rules were defined for the delimitation of the EEZ and the continental shelf. The only question is the general achievement of an “equitable result”;
  4. The convention has been signed to date by 160 countries, with key exceptions being the United States, Israel, Turkey, Venezuela and Syria.
More in

 

Akritas

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Grey wolf has nothing to do with fascism Its a punisher symbol for the Turks cope and seeth commie lover It literally says support pkk lmao :DDDDD

Grey Wolves, is Turkey’s neo-fascist group that is banned from several States like in France.

 

Ryder

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Just like the greeks for centuries :DDD When you guys barked something called greek genocide and Cyprus happened know your place Island slave. Warriors of sparta are no more I guess

Good thing we kick them out of Anatolia.

If they stayed we.would have had another pkk problem with these Greeks and Armenians.

Turkey should ready itself for war. Greeks cant be trusted.
 

dani92

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Again and again, the decision where the border will be signed and whom the island and EEZ will belong, will made on the battlefield. And this scenario come closer. Finally!
Btw, why we don’t immigrant more Turks to north Cyprus?
Take selanik and bati trakya.
 

Huelague

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Grey Wolves, is Turkey’s neo-fascist group that is banned from several States like in France.

Like France National?
 

Xenon54

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Grey Wolves, is Turkey’s neo-fascist group that is banned from several States like in France.

Yeah same france that lets pkk terrorists roam freely, why would we care about their opinion and why are they relevant anyways?
 

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