TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Yasar_TR]

Availability. But ASELSAN could theoretically develop a smaller variant of the MURAD AESA and then fit it on the aircraft at a later date. Hürjet is also different in the sense that it isn't an outright combat platform, although it is configurable to be one. So it is normal in my view, that ASELSAN prioritized BÜRFİS & MURAD and their integrations to platforms such as Akıncı, Kızılelma, F-16 and the MMU.

Just to add to this:
The Italian Aesa Radar Hurjet will have will be the first air platform that TuAF will have with an Aesa radar. It will be good and informative to use it on a plane. Also it has to be remembered that since Hurjet is predominantly a trainer aircraft, the electronic systems on it will have to approximate the equipments on Ozgur and MMU to train the pilot candidates properly, it doesn’t really need a locally produced super-duper radar.
While Aselsan is working hard to perfect the Murad and the Burfis, it would have meant to be distracting and pulling resources from these two very important projects, had Aselsan designed an Aesa radar for Hurjet too.

 

[zio]

Is there any information italian aesa radar?

 

[Radonsider]

Is there any information italian aesa radar?

it is Grifo-E, probably around 600-650 T/T modules (GaN)

 

[TheInsider]

Aselsan's MURAD AESA radar with 1000+ T/R module is overkill for the Hurjet trainer version. Hurjet light attack might have MURAD though. TAI should have integrated Aselsan's smaller AESA radar(cut-down version of MURAD) planned for Akıncı if that wasn't canceled.

 

[zio]

All the F35,F16V,Rafale fighters use GaS not GaN,does it make any sense?

 

[Radonsider]

All the F35,F16V,Rafale fighters use GaS not GaN,does it make any sense?

They are older compared to Grifo-E and our radars.

GaN have more error rate and needs more testing, thus that's why it took so long for us to do those radars, to make them safe

But GaN brings lots of advantages, allowing more power, less heat generation etc

 

[Rodeo]

But GaN brings lots of advantages, allowing more power, less heat generation etc

More power and less heat generation? It's true that power density of GaN modules are like 5-10 times that of GaAs but they require equally more cooling. That's why ASELSAN had to develop a liquid cooled system. With AESA radars you need about two times more power for the cooling system than the T/R module consumes. If say a module needs 20 watts of power for operation, you need to supply the cooling system with 40 watts. However your GaN radar has %50 more range than a similar sized GaAs radar. The trade-off is worth it.

 

[Radonsider]

More power and less heat generation? It's true that power density of GaN modules are like 5-10 times that of GaAs but they require equally more cooling. That's why ASELSAN had to develop a liquid cooled system. With AESA radars you need about two times more power for the cooling system than the T/R module consumes. If say a module needs 20 watts of power for operation, you need to supply the cooling system with 40 watts. However your GaN has %50 percent more range than a similar sized GaAs radar. The trade-off is worth it.

i mean, per unit

 

[Rodeo]

i mean, per unit

If you mean per watt then you're right. GaN is more efficient than GaAs but due to their much higher power density they require more cooling than GaAs.

 

[Radonsider]

If you mean per watt then you're right. GaN is more efficient than GaAs but due to their much higher power density they require more cooling than GaAs.

Yes, I am bit high rn can't really create sentences haha

 

[Era_shield]

Aselsan's MURAD AESA radar with 1000+ T/R module is overkill for the Hurjet trainer version. Hurjet light attack might have MURAD though. TAI should have integrated Aselsan's smaller AESA radar(cut-down version of MURAD) planned for Akıncı if that wasn't canceled.

The #1 priority for all Hurjet systems must be minimum cost per flight hour. Getting Aselsan to make an expensive, high power AESA radar for it that can cook a chicken from 1km is not sensible. Same for twin engine, carrier versions, etc etc. People underestimate how valuable real flight time is for a pilot and how much it affects the skill level of an airforce.

 

[zio]

The #1 priority for all Hurjet systems must be minimum cost per flight hour. Getting Aselsan to make an expensive, high power AESA radar for it that can cook a chicken from 1km is not sensible. Same for twin engine, carrier versions, etc etc. People underestimate how valuable real flight time is for a pilot and how much it affects the skill level of an airforce.

For general training you are right but for red air training mission it should have aesa radar for maximum benefit.

 

[Radonsider]

For general training you are right but for red air training mission it should have aesa radar for maximum benefit.

it already does

 

[Era_shield]

For general training you are right but for red air training mission it should have aesa radar for maximum benefit.

Yes, it needs an AESA radar for many reasons but it doesn't have to be a high quality cutting edge one from Aselsan. Normally I always say to make components locally if possible but in this case, since we can downscale our larger radars and produce it quickly if needed in a war, it's better to use a foreign one if it has a much lower cost per flight hour.

 

[zio]

Everyone says GaN based aesa radar are at least 50 percent effective than GaAs based ones,but our officals says”slightly better”,what does it mean?Are the TR modules reduced?

 

[Radonsider]

Everyone says GaN based aesa radar are at least 50 percent effective than GaAs based ones,but our officals says”slightly better”,what does it mean?Are the TR modules reduced?

I didn't see a slightly better statement, they say it will be more than equivalent

 

[Radonsider]

I didn't see a slightly better statement, they say it will be more than equivalent

And actually iirc an official said it is more powerful than what's on most modern aircraft, I will try to find that interview

 

[MADDOG]

"generate sales for the contract" that part is sus, also does this kind of confirm stage 2 of partnership?

That's what they're going for most likely!

 

[Yasar_TR]

Everyone says GaN based aesa radar are at least 50 percent effective than GaAs based ones,but our officals says”slightly better”,what does it mean?Are the TR modules reduced?

Normally a GaN based T/R (transmit/receive) module is a lot more effcient than a GaAs based T/R module. Also GaN based transistors can generate 5 to 8 times more power.

What’s The Difference Between GaAs And GaN RF Power Amplifiers?

This article discusses the pros and cons of GaAs vs. GaN semiconductors for RF power amplifiers.

www.electronicdesign.com

But in an Aesa radar it is also important how well the ancillary electronics and circuits are employed. For a similar number of T/R modules you may get a very good result from GaAs modules if your design philosophy is good and you use top notch equipment. With a comparatively larger number of modules you may even be on par with a GaN moduled radar.
So without testing the GaN based Murad Radar in actual test conditions and also not letting the specifics known to outside world too much, it is better not to throw caution to the wind and let secrets out.

 

[TheInsider]

Everyone says GaN based aesa radar are at least 50 percent effective than GaAs based ones,but our officals says”slightly better”,what does it mean?Are the TR modules reduced?

I can %100 confirm that they are sandbagging. Otherwise, we won't be developing a ramjet A-A missile for our F-16s. Even though Gökhan will also be integrated into TF-X, the project is first launched with the F-16s in mind. You need long-range sensors to take advantage of such a high-range AA missile. That is why the effectiveness of a Meteor missile on a RAFALE differs from a METEOR missile on a Eurofighter.

Note that Aselsan/ABMikronano published extremely impressive papers between 2019-2022. Two examples;
2 Low Noise Amplifier (LNA) designs using ABMikronanos own cutting edge 0.15μm node.

http://repository.bilkent.edu.tr/bitstream/handle/11693/75713/GaN_based_LNA_MMICs_for_X_band_applications.pdf?sequence=1

https://www.researchgate.net/public...X-band_LNAs_to_achieve_sub-12_dB_noise_figure (latest publication unfortunately behind a paywall)

GaAs has one advantage over GaN. Noise levels are a lot better than GaN. But it seems that ABMikronano managed to create a GaN LNA with noise levels as low as cutting-edge GaAs products while retaining all of the advantages of GaN.