TR HÜRJET-Advanced Jet Trainer/ Light attack aircraft

[Chocopie]

It is you who missing the point, there is a big market that KAI have not been able to capture which may be addressed by TAI.

That‘s not what he meant. He wasn‘t talking about potential customer markets that competitors might have missed - he talks about a product gap in the field of advanced supersonic trainer jet + LCA/light fighter design which is obviously false.

"HÜRJET will truly fill a significant gap in its field. Its design as both a supersonic aircraft and a light attack and training aircraft allows for a wide range of configurations and uses."

 

[Yasar_TR]

Firstly let us calm down a bit.
In the western world, there are only 2 active supersonic trainer aircraft brands; T-38 Talon and KAI-T50
Since T-38 is more or less obsolete, the playing field is open to KAI-T50 at the moment.
Considering the very fact that most modern airforces are aspiring to add supersonic 5th generation aircrafts in to their inventory and will be needing supersonic trainers to prepare their pilots, it is rather a weak argument to say that KAI-T50 is enough for the market needs.

So, for Mr Demiroglu, to state that there is a significant gap in modern trainer requirement is not wrong.
Given that KAI has an early start gives them a distinct advantage with T50 plane. But if Tusas can start building serially produced planes soon, it will bring Hurjet in to the race as well.

 

[Saithan]

Now if only TuAF would order 250 Hürjet we'd both raise the market share of Hürjet of the "potential" market that exists. alas whether we can get an export permit for the engines from the US remains to be seen.

 

[Chocopie]

Firstly let us calm down a bit.
In the western world, there are only 2 active supersonic trainer aircraft brands; T-38 Talon and KAI-T50
Since T-38 is more or less obsolete, the playing field is open to KAI-T50 at the moment.
Considering the very fact that most modern airforces are aspiring to add supersonic 5th generation aircrafts in to their inventory and will be needing supersonic trainers to prepare their pilots, it is rather a weak argument to say that KAI-T50 is enough for the market needs.

So, for Mr Demiroglu, to state that there is a significant gap in modern trainer requirement is not wrong.
Given that KAI has an early start gives them a distinct advantage with T50 plane. But if Tusas can start building serially produced planes soon, it will bring Hurjet in to the race as well.

Boeing Saab’s T7 Red Hawk will soonishly enter the playing field.

Besides that: Mr. Demiroglu was pointing out that Hürjet is a unique design aimed for supersonic trainer AND light attack fighter as well which fills a significant gap. Which is wrong bc T-50 was exactly designed as that: T-50, TA-50, FA-50 and exported for nearly 20 years.

His quote is quite clear, don‘t know why there are so many interpretations added to it.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Boeing Saab’s T7 Red Hawk will soonishly enter the playing field.

Red hawk is subsonic. Can only manage Mach 1.1 in a dive.

Let us put a stop to this argument.
I have read the Turkish news piece regarding Mr Demiroglu’s speech. This is “exactly” what he says:
HÜRJET will fill a big gap in its field. Being supersonic and designed as a training and light attack aircraft, HÜRJET allows for a very wide range of configurations. Hopefully, we will start making deliveries to the Turkish Air Force in 2026.
So let us not add words in to what the guy has said.
He is 100% correct. Remember he is also trying to promote and get in to a market where KAI had free rein.

quote:
HÜRJET kendi alanında büyük bir boşluğu dolduracak. Hem süpersonik olması hem eğitim hem de hafif taarruz uçağı şeklinde tasarlanmış olması HÜRJET'in konfigürasyon açısından çok geniş bir alanda kullanımını sağlıyor. İnşallah 2026 içinde de Türk Hava Kuvvetlerine teslimatlarımızı yapmaya başlayacağız.
unquote.

 

[Chocopie]

Red hawk is subsonic. Can only manage Mach 1.1 in a dive.

Let us put a stop to this argument.
I have read the Turkish news piece regarding Mr Demiroglu’s speech. This is “exactly” what he says:
HÜRJET will fill a big gap in its field. Being supersonic and designed as a training and light attack aircraft, HÜRJET allows for a very wide range of configurations. Hopefully, we will start making deliveries to the Turkish Air Force in 2026.
So let us not add words in to what the guy has said.
He is 100% correct. Remember he is also trying to promote and get in to a market where KAI had free rein.

quote:
HÜRJET kendi alanında büyük bir boşluğu dolduracak. Hem süpersonik olması hem eğitim hem de hafif taarruz uçağı şeklinde tasarlanmış olması HÜRJET'in konfigürasyon açısından çok geniş bir alanda kullanımını sağlıyor. İnşallah 2026 içinde de Türk Hava Kuvvetlerine teslimatlarımızı yapmaya başlayacağız.
unquote.

It slipped my mind that T-7 is only scratching at Mach 1 similar to M346.

I‘m not going to argue further, I used the quote as posted by the Turkish member.
What puzzles me still is how "HÜRJET will fill a big gap in its field" could be "100% correct". For me it sounds misleading.
But I will stop here, brother

 

[Chocopie]

Eh. Everybody here is proud of their country, if the sides were switched im sure some Turks would be disgruntled from marketing speech too.

Anyway, peeps why is the t7 subsonic? Other than twin verts compared to hürjet their size is around the same and the engines very much are. What's causing a 0.4 mach difference in speed? They don't look that different.

T-7 uses the latest but slightly weaker F404-103 engine variant than T-50 and Hürjet with F404-102 engine. Red Hawk has a much lighter empty weight with modern composite material than older T-50 and could be easily supersonic.
Maybe it was a deliberate decision to keep it subsonic for trainer pilots ?

F404-GE-102:
53.07 kN (11,930 lbf) thrust dry
78.7 kN (17,700 lbf) with AB

F404-GE-103:
49 kN (11,000 lbf) thrust dry
77 kN (17,200 lbf) with AB

 

[Yasar_TR]

how "HÜRJET will fill a big gap in its field" could be "100% correct". For me it sounds misleading.

You are correct; in the face of it, that may not sound correct. Then let me try to explain.
1. I am sure KAI didn’t think that they will meet the demands of every potential trainer buyer in the world. As more and more countries start upgrading their airforce inventories, the capacity requirement of manufacturing will increase exponentially.
2. Besides, there are countries that KAI may not want to deal with. Also there may be countries that do not want to deal with KAI.
3. If there were 3,4 or 5 supersonic trainer manufacturers in the world, that statement would be not correct. But with only one supersonic trainer manufacturer, the market is crying for a newcomer. To any salesman, that is a “big gap”.

At least that is my logic. You don’t need to agree with it.

 

[Chocopie]

You are correct; in the face of it, that may not sound correct. Then let me try to explain.
1. I am sure KAI didn’t think that they will meet the demands of every potential trainer buyer in the world. As more and more countries start upgrading their airforce inventories, the capacity requirement of manufacturing will increase exponentially.
2. Besides, there are countries that KAI may not want to deal with. Also there may be countries that do not want to deal with KAI.
3. If there were 3,4 or 5 supersonic trainer manufacturers in the world, that statement would be not correct. But with only one supersonic trainer manufacturer, the market is crying for a newcomer. To any salesman, that is a “big gap”.

At least that is my logic. You don’t need to agree with it.

Hahaha, yes it makes sense from a Turkish salesman point of view.
Nevertheless, lately Korean defense journos were discussing that T-50/TA-50/FA-50 would be marketable for the next 10 years without a follow-up model.

They speculated, that KAI will concentrate on KF-21 and 5th/6th gen development and might abandon the trainer jet market. Those journos could be wrong, the single-seat version of FA-50 with added air-to-air weaponry could become a cheaper F-16 alternative for the future.

 

[Yasar_TR]

T-7 uses the latest but slightly weaker F404-103 engine variant than T-50 and Hürjet with F404-102 engine. Red Hawk has a much lighter empty weight with modern composite material than older T-50 and could be easily supersonic.
Maybe it was a deliberate decision to keep it subsonic for trainer pilots ?

F404-GE-102:
53.07 kN (11,930 lbf) thrust dry
78.7 kN (17,700 lbf) with AB

F404-GE-103:
49 kN (11,000 lbf) thrust dry
77 kN (17,200 lbf) with AB

To add to above:
To build a supersonic plane doesn’t really mean having a powerful engine. But a very good, strong and capable airframe.
Gripen can land on an aircraft carrier. (If I am not mistaken they are navalised.) it can achieve Mach 2. That is because of it’s enhanced airframe design.
That makes it more expensive too.
The F404 derivative engine it used, had a fairly low thrust to weight ratio. So they even contemplated to use ej200 as a replacement. But the FADEC and air intake changes involved extensive work and cost due to twin engine to single engine use. So they gave up on it and went for the F414 alternative.

I guess T7 may be the optimum result of price point vs performance vs end-use.

 

[boredaf]

Gripen can land on an aircraft carrier. (If I am not mistaken they are navalised.)

They have a naval version though I don't think anyone has bought it yet. Wish we could get Gripens, I love that jet.

 

[Quasar]

 

[Quasar]

if or When Hürjet as a light attack aircraft happens ''under normal circumtances'' what comes with Hürjet will be modern avionics + AESA radar + wvR missiles+ BVR missiles + almost all Turkish Air to ground ammunitions.... HGK+KGK+minature bomb + even possibly SOM J + ÇAKIR+ KUZGUN.... in export markets HÜRJET is an attractive plane yet a full package HÜRJET is a flash royal in it's class. sometimes it is not just the plane but what comes with it....

and yes ENGINE

 

[boredaf]

if or When Hürjet as a light attack aircraft happens ''under normal circumtances'' what comes with Hürjet will be modern avionics + AESA radar + wvR missiles+ BVR missiles + almost all Turkish Air to ground ammunitions.... HGK+KGK+minature bomb + even possibly SOM J + ÇAKIR+ KUZGUN.... in export markets HÜRJET is an attractive plane yet a full package HÜRJET is a flash royal in it's class. sometimes it is not just the plane but what comes with it....

and yes ENGINE

Som-J is over 500 kgs, unless Hürjet can carry it under its fuselage I doubt it'll be able to carry it on its wings. It's entire payload is less than 3000 kgs.

 

[Quasar]

Som-J is over 500 kgs, unless Hürjet can carry it under its fuselage I doubt it'll be able to carry it on its wings. It's entire payload is less than 3000 kgs.

then it carries SOM j under its fuselage

 

[UkroTurk]

Just a stealth trainer jet will bring fresh breath into market.

Why do everyone overlook stealth capabilities of a trainer jet? Future is stealth, how your future compat pilots improve their skills?

 

[Sanchez]

Future is stealth, how your future compat pilots improve their skills?

In their squadrons with their new stealth fighters, not the training squadrons.

 

[UkroTurk]

In their squadrons with their new stealth fighters, not the training squadrons.

Then why do fighter pilots train with light jets instead of real fighters in their squadrons?
I am sure next gen jet trainers will be stealth.

 

[boredaf]

Just a stealth trainer jet will bring fresh breath into market.

Why do everyone overlook stealth capabilities of a trainer jet? Future is stealth, how your future compat pilots improve their skills?
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Because Hürjet isn't stealthy and training jet is for training pilots, stealth isn't one bit important for it? And if you're going to try to turn Hürjet stealthy then its geometry would have to change so much that it would barely be the same aircraft in the first place.

Then why do fighter pilots train with light jets instead of real fighters in their squadrons?
I am sure next gen jet trainers will be stealth.

Because trainers are designed for that purpose, to train with. An F-16 isn't, nor is Kaan. Making a trainer stealthy is just a waste of resources.

 

[2033]

Then why do fighter pilots train with light jets instead of real fighters in their squadrons?
I am sure next gen jet trainers will be stealth.

Stealth training aircraft

It doesn't make much sense.