Has Macron declared war on Islam?

Huelague

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Macron's remarks on Islam a provocation'
Turkish president says French leader’s remarks claiming 'Islam is in crisis' go beyond disrespect
Gozde Bayar |06.10.2020

'Macron's remarks on Islam a provocation'




ANKARA
The French president’s recent claims about Islam amount to a dangerous provocation, Turkey’s president said on Tuesday.
“[Emmanuel] Macron's statement on ‘Islam is in crisis’ in a city where Muslims are the majority go beyond disrespect and are a clear provocation,” Recep Tayyip Erdogan told a gathering of mosque and religious workers in the Turkish capital Ankara.
A French president making statements urging the restructuring of Islam is "rude", Erdogan added.
Last Friday, Macron announced a controversial plan against so-called "Islamist separatism" in the country.
In a speech in the western Paris suburb of Les Mureaux -- an area with a large Muslim population -- Macron claimed that Islam is "experiencing a crisis across the world".
The statement sparked criticism among Muslims worldwide.
"Attacking Muslims has become one of the most important tools for European politicians to hide their failure," Erdogan stressed.
Some prime ministers and presidents are now resorting to this cheap policy, which was previously used by fascist groups to gain votes, Erdogan said.
“European leaders who are stuck in domestic politics and failed in foreign policy try to cover up their inadequacy by targeting Islam,” he added.
“In fact, Macron wants to hide the crisis that France and French society face by talking about the crisis of the Islamic world. It is understood that with the law combating extremism, the main purpose is not to fight fanaticism but to settle accounts with Islam and Muslims,” Erdogan stressed.
Erdogan urged Macron to act like a responsible statesman, rather than pretending to be a colonial governor.
In many Western countries, racism and Islamophobia are safeguarded by the state itself, he added.
“Those who deflect their targets instead of confronting racism and Islamophobia are the ones who harm their societies,” Erdogan said.
“The stigmatization of Muslims -- who have been living in the French society for half a century -- as 'separatists' will lead to great conflicts. Nobody has the right to risk Muslims' safety of life and property or freedom of belief and worship,” he said.
The president also stressed that Turkey is against assimilation, while it strongly supports integration.

Turkey’s Hagia Sofia move

Speaking on Turkey’s move to allow worship in the Hagia Sophia Grand Mosque, Erdogan said the country “removed shadows on its independence.”
On July 24, Friday’s prayers in the Hagia Sophia Grand Mosque marked the first acts of worship there over the last 86 years.
Some 350,000 Muslims took part in Friday prayers on July 24 both inside and outside the historical mosque in Istanbul, Turkey's largest metropolis.
On July 10, a Turkish court annulled a 1934 Cabinet decree that turned Hagia Sophia into a museum, paving the way for its use as a mosque.
Hagia Sophia served as a church for 916 years until the conquest of Istanbul, and a mosque from 1453 to 1934 -- nearly 500 years -- and most recently as a museum for 86 years.
In 1985, during its time as a museum, Hagia Sophia was added to the UNESCO World Heritage List.
Besides being a mosque, Hagia Sophia is also among Turkey’s top tourism destinations and will remain open for domestic and foreign visitors.


Erdogan: Macron’s remarks on Islam clear provocation
 

Philip the Arab

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The next Sarcosy?
France shames all religions not just Islam. Islamic salafism is a problem even if you don't want to admit it. Moderate islam is the solution for France. i know Turkish people don't like exteremists I mean look at the tourists that you get to Istanbul from Saudi Arabia.
 

Huelague

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France shames all religions not just Islam. Islamic salafism is a problem even if you don't want to admit it. Moderate islam is the solution for France. i know Turkish people don't like exteremists I mean look at the tourists that you get to Istanbul from Saudi Arabia.
You think FR shames Christianity?
 

Philip the Arab

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You think FR shames Christianity?
It has in the past but less now concerning Catholicism, after French revolution it in fact led to death of many church figures. Many atheists and agnostics hate all religions which make a good part of France religious population.
 

Ryder

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France shames all religions not just Islam. Islamic salafism is a problem even if you don't want to admit it. Moderate islam is the solution for France. i know Turkish people don't like exteremists I mean look at the tourists that you get to Istanbul from Saudi Arabia.

Islam is Islam their so called moderate Islam is not traditional or classical Islam.

They want a Liberal Islam where gay marriage is allowed and all forms of degeneracy.

A lot of Muslims are not Salafists a lot of people ignore this. How did salafism grow because France allowed the Saudis to their build mosques in France.
 

Deliorman

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Macron tries to play it hard and strong when it’s visible that he just doesn’t have the testosterone levels and the aura of a real alpha male politician. He is just not a strongman no matter how much he tries to look that way. That is not something bad of course- not everyone can have those qualities. For a politician it is also important to be smart, honest and hardworking too. But when you consider that he is married to a woman that is 25 years older than him and was his teacher at school you know that this guy is creepy and weird. He choose a woman that has three kids of her own and can’t even bear his child... the guy is an absolute cuck. In the dictionary his name should be written as an explanation of what a cuckold is. That guy indeed has a mental issue.

Yet for his war on Islam (whatever that should mean):
The Salafis are a huge problem not only in Europe but mostly in the Muslim world. Yet that doesn’t stop Macron from rubbing coqs with the Gulfies. His whole politics right now is based on bashing Erdogan and Turkey (the only Muslim country that is seen as a real threat to them). On being a butt buddy with everyone who is against the Turks - from the Gulf, To Greeks and Armenians. And he also wants to be a partner/equal/version of Putin... which he can’t be because Putin is a real Alfa. All of that is made for winning a few votes from the far-right block in France. Whatever it is working or not I don’t know because I don’t have much knowledge on French politics and the alternatives to Macron there.
 

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War against religion should be goal for the whole world. But when a French politician does it, you gotta question...
 

Saithan

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Remember he's just 42 or something (1977), and I seriously doubt he's got crises management skills considering how flippant he behaves.

I was under the impression the French Senate would keep him in check too, but it would seem that is not how it works.
 

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Macron is a centrist in disguise,but a right winger in reality,even Marine Le Pen sometimes feels impressed.

But the real question is does he have any choice ? Being tough on islamism,internal security and immigration is an answer to the rising number of right and far right voters,by trying to attract them,he is trying to weaken his adversaries and notably (if not only) Marine Le Pen. But he is also trying to answer concerns of a large part of the population against the issues I have mentioned. Looking the other way and being deaf is only going to worsen the problem.
I was under the impression the French Senate would keep him in check too, but it would seem that is not how it works.

I'll sum it up for you quickly ;

Le Sénat (upper house) like l'Assemblée Nationale (lower house) examines,votes laws and control the government's actions. But the senate is more here to defend the interests of the communes,départements and regions,called "collectivités territoriales". (territorial collectivity)

In case both don't agree,it is the lower house that has the last words on bills or on the government's actions. So if Macron has a majority in the lower house (the upper house is dominated by the center-right) nothing much can be done against him.
 

BordoEnes

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The duality of my feelings towards France creates a massive mental shitstorm for me. I respect France for staying true to their "Laicite" within their institutions and political system but cant stand their hypocritical foreign policy. Truth be told Islamic radicalism has become a serious trouble in Europe and this is not something that is going to be ignored. Call it Islamophobia all you want, they are completely right in taking these neccesary steps.
 

Saithan

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The duality of my feelings towards France creates a massive mental shitstorm for me. I respect France for staying true to their "Laicite" within their institutions and political system but cant stand their hypocritical foreign policy. Truth be told Islamic radicalism has become a serious trouble in Europe and this is not something that is going to be ignored. Call it Islamophobia all you want, they are completely right in taking these neccesary steps.
The problem in dealing with these radicals lies in having the wrong ppl in the posts to deal with them.

An example could be Denmark where the minister who actually can deal with radicalism does so in a way that actually doesn't help, but is having an impact on the integrated muslims in society.

Such things like allowing Imams to wed people because priests have the same rights.

Forced marriages etc. are also an issue, I would solve it by raising the age of legal marriage from 18 to let's say 28 (just an example).

I believe that in a developed society a male and female can be together and live together outside of marriage. Religious people would say it leads to degeneration blah blah blah.

And some like my best friend says why punish rest of society because a few can't act normal.

I think he forgets that as times changes you change rules laws accordingly. for 100-200 years ago marriage age was, what 14-15-16 ?

In some countries you have drinking age 21, but can drive a car, get married, vote at 18 ?

I think my suggestion is the better solution. Because I believe that at the age of 28 all youngsters will have an education have work experience and wisdom to act independently.

A bit sidetracked from topic, but I think it's necessary to rethink old custome and laws.
 

Vergennes

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Pourquoi le président turc, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, attaque violemment Emmanuel Macron

"Le président turc a multiplié, dimanche, les attaques contre son homologue français, provoquant le rappel de l’ambassadeur de France à Ankara. En voulant imposer la formation d’imams locaux, Paris contrarie la politique d’influence de la Turquie via la religion."

"Les autorités turques n’ont pas digéré le fait qu’Emmanuel Macron cherche à renforcer le contrôle des lieux de culte musulmans et décide d’en finir avec les envois d’imams étrangers en France."



Why Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan violently attacks Emmanuel Macron

"The Turkish president stepped up attacks on his French counterpart on Sunday, prompting the recall of the French ambassador to Ankara. By wanting to impose the formation of local imams, Paris thwarts Turkey's policy of influence through religion."


"The Turkish authorities have not digested the fact that Emmanuel Macron seeks to strengthen control of Muslim places of worship and decides to put an end to the sending of foreign imams to France."

Well well... I've read half of foreign imams sent each years to France were from Turkey...
 

Saithan

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Pourquoi le président turc, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, attaque violemment Emmanuel Macron

"Le président turc a multiplié, dimanche, les attaques contre son homologue français, provoquant le rappel de l’ambassadeur de France à Ankara. En voulant imposer la formation d’imams locaux, Paris contrarie la politique d’influence de la Turquie via la religion."

"Les autorités turques n’ont pas digéré le fait qu’Emmanuel Macron cherche à renforcer le contrôle des lieux de culte musulmans et décide d’en finir avec les envois d’imams étrangers en France."



Why Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan violently attacks Emmanuel Macron

"The Turkish president stepped up attacks on his French counterpart on Sunday, prompting the recall of the French ambassador to Ankara. By wanting to impose the formation of local imams, Paris thwarts Turkey's policy of influence through religion."


"The Turkish authorities have not digested the fact that Emmanuel Macron seeks to strengthen control of Muslim places of worship and decides to put an end to the sending of foreign imams to France."

Well well... I've read half of foreign imams sent each years to France were from Turkey...
Under some old agreements European countries have accepted that countries like Turkey can send Imams for their minority population.

This is directly connected to that all Imams in Turkey are directly educated and raised under Diyanet, which is a religious institution that is not allowed to participate in Politics.

I am not sure if this is still valid considering how RTE has been using Diyanet to appease or tell people to be patient ever since the current head of Diyanet was appointed. Ppl from EU can also get educated and appointed from Diyanet. (Not much different than the Pope in Rome makes decisions, we just don't have a hierarchy other than head of Diyanet and all the imams.)

As long as there was a strict seperation between Diyanet and Politicians I would say the European fears are groundless. But now I don't know. If/when AKP falls a new more secular goverments comes into power Diyanet will be kicked back and many imams who may have been too much involved (Because of AKP) will be retired and new secular batch will come.

I would like to draw your attention to that we never hear about any problems related to Turkish Imams. It is always arabs, or some such. when there are controverseys.

Even here in Denmark, arabs, pakistani imams etc. are always mentioned as problems with islam. never turks.
 

Costin84

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Under some old agreements European countries have accepted that countries like Turkey can send Imams for their minority population.

This is directly connected to that all Imams in Turkey are directly educated and raised under Diyanet, which is a religious institution that is not allowed to participate in Politics.

I am not sure if this is still valid considering how RTE has been using Diyanet to appease or tell people to be patient ever since the current head of Diyanet was appointed. Ppl from EU can also get educated and appointed from Diyanet. (Not much different than the Pope in Rome makes decisions, we just don't have a hierarchy other than head of Diyanet and all the imams.)

As long as there was a strict seperation between Diyanet and Politicians I would say the European fears are groundless. But now I don't know. If/when AKP falls a new more secular goverments comes into power Diyanet will be kicked back and many imams who may have been too much involved (Because of AKP) will be retired and new secular batch will come.

I would like to draw your attention to that we never hear about any problems related to Turkish Imams. It is always arabs, or some such. when there are controverseys.

Even here in Denmark, arabs, pakistani imams etc. are always mentioned as problems with islam. never turks.
You are right about Turkish imams not being radicals but they can be used as a tool of political influence.
We are talking to much about Macron and to little about the problems radical Islam cause in Europe. Leaving aside the idiot who beheaded the teacher, he was cheered on by normal citizens like one of the pupils father or that university student who was sentenced to 4 months in jail,suspended sentence .She, ofcourse, said she regrets her statements when she was on trial but we all know she really doesn't...
 

Saithan

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You are right about Turkish imams not being radicals but they can be used as a tool of political influence.
We are talking to much about Macron and to little about the problems radical Islam cause in Europe. Leaving aside the idiot who beheaded the teacher, he was cheered on by normal citizens like one of the pupils father or that university student who was sentenced to 4 months in jail,suspended sentence .She, ofcourse, said she regrets her statements when she was on trial but we all know she really doesn't...
They are f.... idiots. Killing a teacher is pure failure from all aspects. I don't know how old the kids were, but it's not strange for kids to go, "I wish you got killed", but they're often too young to truly understand what happens when someone is killed.

Personally I feel that continuing using the drawings are just asking for radical attention. Brilliant political tool tbh, if you need to draw attention to something just use drawings and add "this is Muhammed" to get a radical reaction.

So easy to manipulate ppl. THAT is the sad part. Heck even I wish I had an easy tool to manipulate rightwing extremists, if we could fool some of them to recreate gaschamber on a few muslims, that would work wonders.
 

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