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Mis_TR_Like

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This article can easily put to bed that the Sumerians are Turks.

Now look it Turkic, Mongolic, Japonic, Koreanic and Tungusic languages all come from a common ancestor.

I believe in the Altaic theory more than the Sumerians being Turks because there is so much proof.

Proto-Turks likely migrated from East to West multiple times due to droughts. In fact it is believed that the Sumerians reign ended due to a 200 year long drought. Naturally, they would have moved eastwards towards more fertile lands. However there was no end in sight. Constant droughts and harsh weather is what built Turkic nomadic culture.

There are many sources which suggest that there is indeed a link between Turks and Sumerians. Here's just one of dozens: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oQFnoECB4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3uqUZmRX4tVvvX2OOWwef-

Kazakhs seem to believe that there is a link too. One of their official state media channels made a documentary about it.
 

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Kurds are not related to Ancient persians even the modern Iranians are not related to them
Kurds and Persians are both of Iranic origin, culturally and genetically speaking. Just because there was admixture does not mean they are not.
Cavalry still played a role in Persian armies. Sumerians never went horseback as they used chariots.
There's more than a thousand years of difference between the end of Sumer and the first civilizations, who also relied primarily on chariots, and the rise of the first Persian civilization. Additionally, horseback warriors WERE used by Sumerian army, they just didn't have dedicated cavalry divisions. Cavalry was more of a later invention and this goes for proto-Turks as well, who migrated and settled multiple times because their environments were getting inhospitable.
 

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Roughly from west to east (using 0 longitude as the LHS) :

Berber, Basque (and whatever neolithic European languages were in general), African languages, Egyptian/Coptic, Cushitic, Uralic, Sumerian, Turkic, Elamite, Dravidian, Tibetic, Austronesian, Aboriginal-Australian, Tungusic, Mongolic, Korean, Japonic, Inuit/Aleut/Yupik, Native American languages, Meso-American.....

All were/are seemingly default agglutinative in proto and modern forms....though some/many morphologies have drifted toward fusional since (which is only to be expected with the churn of migrations and cross contact).

The three great "sparks" that introduced more analytic/isolating "cleaving" of morphemes seem to have been:

-Andronovo ---> leading to Indo-European family [ed. Joe Shearer]
-Akkad -----> leading to Semitic family, esp its delineation from afro-asiatic
-Xia -------> leading to Sinitic family, esp its delineation from Sino-Tibetan

The first two are more "gentle" (towards some mix of agglutination espeially as they expanded)

The last is quite extreme (driven+sustained by script choice)

Writing system history/influences are a somewhat different but also related story.

It leads me to postulate (spoken + sustained) agglutination was the expansive default in the neolithic period (and before that even when langauge-cultures first started to form independently and/or were influenced by another)

The origins and reasons for analytic/synthetic as more of a default seems to be a bronze age innovation (or at least sustained concentration) in those precise 3 hearths.

Why and how that came about I will have to get reading into later, if such studies have even established themselves.

But this is part of why I speculate Harrapan being agglutinative as well...since it lies in the sumerian-elamite-dravidian axis expanse before the androvo migrations.

However if it connected stronger by way to austroasiatic languages (as the Witzel paper gets into), it could have been analytic-default as well.

Austroasiatic is an example of another "spark" in this choice to strictly cleave morphemes too by default (like the aforementioned big 3 in bronze age).
 
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Nilgiri

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Kurds and Persians are both of Iranic origin, culturally and genetically speaking. Just because there was admixture does not mean they are not.

There's more than a thousand years of difference between the end of Sumer and the first civilizations, who also relied primarily on chariots, and the rise of the first Persian civilization. Additionally, horseback warriors WERE used by Sumerian army, they just didn't have dedicated cavalry divisions. Cavalry was more of a later invention and this goes for proto-Turks as well, who migrated and settled multiple times because their environments were getting inhospitable.

If you read my above reply, I believe the agglutination is the standard feature of the neolithic era (and well into bronze).

The specific language morphologies (of the 3 particular hearths I mention) started distinctly in the bronze age...before they spread (into the vastness of the agglutinative "Default").

This IMO, leaves neolithic tribal connections ( linguistically, ethnically and genetically) as quite interesting open field to study. I mention those three things as their confluence is what leads to ("original") identities used largely today.....without having to get too reductive way back to the rift valley source.

Many assume such study should only start in iron age for some reason (as the "snapshot" to take forward to today)....when iron age to modern era makes a very small % (though recent).

A deeper further look at the expanses of the neolithic (when river settlements and sedentary civ were just in their infancy) probably gives an intuition into not only connection between say Turks and Sumerians (at their proto level)....but that whole swathe of Asia and Middle East (Eurasia one can say even).

It is really early days in studying it, as the evidence is rare to glimpse and needs more time to gather and study.

But lot of the first principles on such things as culture, identity, civilisation (and thus nations) and so on start here.
 

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So it seems turkics, mongolics, tungusics, koreanic and the japonic languages come from the same Amur river people before branching out.
I recently read Chinese scientists who collected data from Chinese, Soviet/Russian archaeologists and came to the same conclusion: Jianhua Yang, Huiqiu Shao, Ling Pan, Haiying Pan. The Metal Road of the Eastern Eurasian Steppe. The_Formation_of_the_Xiongnu Confederation and the Silk Road, 2020 https://vk.com/doc358527_633590051?...l=zsHGeZWvBMR4WN6ZZaWQR8BpAe31IdrVwlzVuG0kayP.
Western and Central Mongolia were occupied by people of the Western (Scythian) tradition, who probably spoke Indo-European languages. Probably, the eastern Altai nomads served them as blacksmiths.
Earlier, I knew that the first shanyu of the Xiongnu Modun raised a rebellion against the Yuezhi and drove them out of Mongolia. Modun is in the Yakut language, it means strong, powerful.

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Bro you got to tell me more about Yakuts.

As a Turkish person im really fascinated by Turkic peoples who live in far flung regions.

Even if we come from the same family and the same language family.

Yakuts, Altai and the Tuvans interest me a lot.

Fascinating learning about other Turkic peoples especially far away places.
 

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Bro you got to tell me more about Yakuts.

As a Turkish person im really fascinated by Turkic peoples who live in far flung regions.

Even if we come from the same family and the same language family.

Yakuts, Altai and the Tuvans interest me a lot.

Fascinating learning about other Turkic peoples especially far away places.
I will try to tell in parts.

Altai, Tuva were inhabited by the heirs of the Andronovites, the Saka. Some of them migrated early from Altai to the Black Sea steppes of Ukraine in the VIII century. They won there and drove out the Cimmerians

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Women had a very high status among the Iranian, Turkic and Mongolian nomads. Fought alongside men


An Amazon from the Baifu burial ground of the Yan Kingdom in China from the mid-XI to mid-VIII century BC. As you know, the Chinese did not have female warriors, so she is attributed to the influence of the northern peoples

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Pazyryk (Yuezhi) carpet from Altai.

i_6f.jpeg.jpg


Pazyryk beauty. Altai. IV century BC/ Artist: Evgeny Kray

-duH5jQMXMs.jpg


Amazons on a V century Greek vase
Clip2Net Menu_2023-02-26_22_44_04.png


Then the Greater Yuezhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuezhi, who were defeated in the war with the Xiongnu, that is, with the ancestors of the Turkic peoples, migrated to the west. In the II century BC, the Yuezhi destroyed the Greco-Bactrian kingdom on the territory of Uzbekistan and Afghanistan and created the Kushan kingdom. Later, the Yuezhi, the Kushans, migrated to India. They continued the spread of Buddhism after the Greco-Bactrians.

Yuezhi migration map

Yuezhi_migrations.jpg


This is what a Yuezhi horseman could have looked like, whose bust was found in Khalchayan on the territory of modern southern Uzbekistan. The sculpture served as an ornamentation of the palace complex in the era of the Kushan Empire, which was made in the Greco-Bactrian style.

NIJjLjcv5iI.jpg


3D reconstruction of women's and men's costumes of the Kushan (Yuezhi) nobility from the royal burials of Tillya-tepe. Northern Afghanistan. The author of the excavations V.I. Sarianidi. Reconstructions by Georgy Peresvetov.

dt1-KmJtr04.jpg
WOu8XLaiNKc.jpg


Buddha heads around the world. Buddhas from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan fall during the Kushan Empire (founded by the Yuezhi Saka people). The faces of the statues are depicted in a characteristic Greco-Bactrian style, which has become an integral part of the culture of the Eastern Iranian states, namely the Kangyu and Yuezhi.

G4Nnm3tH1aE.jpg
 
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GEw1o3PXEAA4FDZ

Many don't realize that this is an anthropological dilemma created mostly by the Internet and neo-liberal economic order which influences residence patterns, and the reinforcement role that social media algorithms play in solidifying default gender-specific attitudes has sped this up.

If anthropology is any guide, the male reaction is against limited access to females due to changes in residence patterns, city-planning and economic independence; this is an impulsive response. As an anthropological/cultural tug of war, it will be won in the long run by who has the priority on mate choice, i.e. females. It's a classic case of culture having some catching up to do with the changes in material realities.
 

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Many don't realize that this is an anthropological dilemma created mostly by the Internet and neo-liberal economic order which influences residence patterns, and the reinforcement role that social media algorithms play in solidifying default gender-specific attitudes has sped this up.

If anthropology is any guide, the male reaction is against limited access to females due to changes in residence patterns, city-planning and economic independence; this is an impulsive response. As an anthropological/cultural tug of war, it will be won in the long run by who has the priority on mate choice, i.e. females. It's a classic case of culture having some catching up to do with the changes in material realities.

Meaning how?
 

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Meaning how?
Meaning since females choose which male to be with (unless economic independence trends reverse), it's the males who will have to meet females where they stand in the end. They might resist for a while, but resistance will be futile and their hands will be forced. This will not happen to one generation, so no changing of mind is needed.
 

Joe Shearer

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I will try to tell in parts.

Altai, Tuva were inhabited by the heirs of the Andronovites, the Saka. Some of them migrated early from Altai to the Black Sea steppes of Ukraine in the VIII century. They won there and drove out the Cimmerians

View attachment 54426

Women had a very high status among the Iranian, Turkic and Mongolian nomads. Fought alongside men


An Amazon from the Baifu burial ground of the Yan Kingdom in China from the mid-XI to mid-VIII century BC. As you know, the Chinese did not have female warriors, so she is attributed to the influence of the northern peoples

View attachment 54425

Pazyryk (Yuezhi) carpet from Altai.

View attachment 54423

Pazyryk beauty. Altai. IV century BC/ Artist: Evgeny Kray

View attachment 54419

Amazons on a V century Greek vase
View attachment 54424

Then the Greater Yuezhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuezhi, who were defeated in the war with the Xiongnu, that is, with the ancestors of the Turkic peoples, migrated to the west. In the II century BC, the Yuezhi destroyed the Greco-Bactrian kingdom on the territory of Uzbekistan and Afghanistan and created the Kushan kingdom. Later, the Yuezhi, the Kushans, migrated to India. They continued the spread of Buddhism after the Greco-Bactrians.

Yuezhi migration map

View attachment 54415

This is what a Yuezhi horseman could have looked like, whose bust was found in Khalchayan on the territory of modern southern Uzbekistan. The sculpture served as an ornamentation of the palace complex in the era of the Kushan Empire, which was made in the Greco-Bactrian style.

View attachment 54417

3D reconstruction of women's and men's costumes of the Kushan (Yuezhi) nobility from the royal burials of Tillya-tepe. Northern Afghanistan. The author of the excavations V.I. Sarianidi. Reconstructions by Georgy Peresvetov.

View attachment 54420 View attachment 54422

Buddha heads around the world. Buddhas from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan fall during the Kushan Empire (founded by the Yuezhi Saka people). The faces of the statues are depicted in a characteristic Greco-Bactrian style, which has become an integral part of the culture of the Eastern Iranian states, namely the Kangyu and Yuezhi.

View attachment 54418
A brilliant post.
However, do not mix the Yueh Chi with the Saka. They were the most bitter enemies.
 

Joe Shearer

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In the II century BC, the Yuezhi destroyed the Greco-Bactrian kingdom on the territory of Uzbekistan and Afghanistan and created the Kushan kingdom.
This is not correct. The Yueh Chi, or Yuezhi, were defeated more than once by the Hiong Nu. On the first occasion, they went westward, and displaced the Saka, who fled south towards the Ferghana Valley and Tajikistan in general. At this time, they attacked the flourishing Bactrian Greek civilisation and devastated it, completely destroying it, and leaving space for some of the Greek feudatories to set up their own realms in old Persia, using their new found independence to drive away the younger successor generations of the Seleukids.

Returning to the Yuezhi/Saka issue, the Saka went further than Bactria when they were pressed a second time by the Yuezhi, who had themselves been hunted down in their western refuge and went south. So we had the Saka suffering a second displacement, this time into the old provinces of Arachosia and Drangiana, today, solidly in the Kandahar region of Afghanistan. It was at this time, due to this movement, that the desert regions in the south-west of Afghanistan became known as Sakasthan, changing over time to Seistan, a name that is still in use.

When the Yuezhi had pushed them down into Arachosia and Drangiana, the Saka continued to move, and went through the mountain passes into the Indus Valley in the south, and into what was later the Punjab, where Alexander had fought Porus. In the Punjab, the Saka set up the Northern Satrapy, exterminating the successors to the Bactrian Greeks, the Indo-Greek kingdom; in the lower Indus Valley, in the regions known in modern times as Gujarat, Rajasthan and Malwa, the Sakas set up the Western Satrapy. They survived several centuries, defeated first by the Satavahanas, but clinging on to power, and were completely overwhelmed by the rising Gupta Empire around 400 CE.

The Yuezhi, meanwhile, continually tracking the Saka-Pahlava (the Pahlava is a tribe that can be dealt with separately) created an empire that spanned vast areas in India and Central Asia, The Yuezhi were ruled by five clans, of which one, the Moon Clan, known in their native language as Kushana, grew to signify all the ruling classes, so their empire was known as the Kushana Empire. It was at this time that Buddhism spread through Central Asia, including the iconic caves of Bamian, and went through the trade connections of the Kushana with the Chinese to China, to make an impact there. The Kushana Empire lasted until it was overthrown by one of the Hunnish invasions, the first of them.

Meanwhile, when they realised that the Yuezhi had come right behind them, the Saka gave up their holdings in the north, and merged with the general bulk of the conquered people in Afghanistan, but their western branch, ruling as the Western Satrapy, ruled on, vassals to the Kushana, and assuming the local Indian divinities, for several hundred years more.

The Saka spoke an eastern dialect of Iranian, and were in a sense related to the Indo-Aryans who broke from the Iranians on a religious schism, while still in the post-Andronovo BMAC culture, and fared out in two parts, one, the earliest, travelling through Persia, and Babylonia as they were later, much later, known, and landed up in Asia Minor, probably around 1500 BC, and conquered and ruled over the Hittites.

These were the Mitanni, who worshipped the same gods as the other people of the Indo-Aryan group, Varuna, Dyaus Pitar and the Aswins, the divine twins, and who travelled south-east, into the Hindu Kush, moved through the passes and into South Asia, and settled there.

The Saka belonged to the remainder who stayed back triumphant and dominant, and were the branch that stayed on in the steppes, living a nomadic life as horse lords in the entire steppe land north of the settled lands of Persia, that was inhabited and settled by others of their tribes, all the way to Europe, where they surface much later as the Sarmatians. In the east, however, as we have seen, they were pressed out of the Uyghur region by the Yuezhi flying before the Hiong Nu, then decades later, fleeing a second time, this time to settle deep in Arachosia and Drangiana, and the lower Indus Valley, as well as up in the Punjab.

The language of the Yuezhi is speculated upon. There is a strong body of opinion that they might have been the mysterious Tokharians, whose language was on the other side of the Satam languages, being an isolated strain of the Centum languages that were otherwise the westward travelling part of the Proto-Indo-European languages, that later formed Armenian, Greek, Latin, Celtic, Germanic and Slavic and all the descendants of the Centum group. The Satam group, as we have seen, consisted of the Proto-Indo-Iranian, and divided into the Persians, Medes and others who spoke Iranian languages, including the east Iranian Sakas, worshipped Ahura Mazda and abominated the Daiva (the opposite of their defeated cousins the Indo-Aryans, who worshipped the Devas and considered the Asura the other demi-gods who fought with the Gods constantly) and used a sacred language called the Avestan, that very, very closely resembled the language of the Rg Veda.

The Saka and the Yuezhi were emphatically different from each other.
 

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Meaning since females choose which male to be with (unless economic independence trends reverse), it's the males who will have to meet females where they stand in the end. They might resist for a while, but resistance will be futile and their hands will be forced. This will not happen to one generation, so no changing of mind is needed.

I think, fundemntally it is not about the economic independence trend.

The reason why it may appear females are in better position today, is because they have equal (well, almost equal) rights, yet almost no responsibility in general. When it comes meteials and economic aspect of the life, they are treated equally as individuals, yet they are still treated as 'women' in (the traditional sense) in almost every other aspect. That is why despite the slogan of equality, the same bad actions/deeds has way more consequences for men than women.

The reason why they are having it both ways, is because we are still in a transition period and the transition to actual equally is still ongoing. People still have the traditional sense of what 'women' is in their minds, hence (almost subconsciously) they still treat them accordingly. But more and more in the future new generation of young men won't have that, as equality progresses they will see women as individuals just like themselves and will treat them a accordingly. Hence, women won't have it easy as 'women' in the future. There will be an increasingly amount of responsibility/accountability with a decreasing amount of 'privilege' of the 'traditional women'. We can observe then how women adapt themselves. (And likely lean toward some sort of compromise/middle ground.)

MensRights subreddit may be a joke today, but it is about to get real pretty soon.
 
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I just realised what I had blundered into. Without getting involved in your high-quality discussion, I would like to mention that one of the voices that you must listen to, whether or not you agree with her, is that of the formerly Russian/Soviet anthropologist, Marija Gimbutas. The Russians have accumulated a mountain of evidence on these things, and only by studying their work deeply is it possible to get even a glimmering idea of the palaeolithic-neolithic- Copper Age - Iron Age period.
 

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I think, fundemntally it is not about the economic independence trend.

The reason why it may appear females are in better position today, is because they have equal (well, almost equal) rights, yet almost no responsibility in general. When it comes meteials and economic aspect of the life, they are treated equally as individual, yet they are still treated as 'women' in (the traditional sense) in almost every other aspect. That is why despite the slogan of equality, the same bad actions/deeds has way more consequences for men than women.

The reason why they are having it both ways, is because we are still in a transition period and the transition to actual equally is still ongoing. People still have the traditional sense of what 'women' is in their minds, hence (almost subconsciously) they still treat them accordingly. But more and more in the future new generation of young men won't have that, as equality progresses they will see women as individuals just like themselves and will treat them a accordingly. Hence, women won't have it easy as 'women' in the future. There will be an increasingly amount of responsibility/accountability with a decreasing amount of 'privilege' of the 'traditional women'. We can observe then how women adopt themselves. (And likely lean toward some sort of compromise/middle ground.)

MensRights subreddit may be a joke today, but it is about to get real pretty soon.
Maybe you're right, but in my experience the idea of having this ideological reaction based on perceived privileges is too high-brow of a reason. I think humanity works more viscerally. From my personal experience the frustration and the trend is specific to very young men and very young women; and the factors you mention about responsibilities and lingering privileges are more pronounced for people in their 30s than those in their 20s; but the trend is not seen for those in their 30s in such a pronounced way. The level of frustration is quite high and this I attribute to a lower access to females and sex since the tensions about responsibility exists for those who do have access to sex and this level of frustration which can cause a cultural rift doesn't exist for them as much.

If those who don't have access to sex, rationalize their frustration with women in a myriad of ways, then that's just a surface level rationalization; since that person is not involved with anyone to start experiencing differences in responsibility and privilege. What they might perceive as differences in responsibility and privileges from afar without being involved with a female might just be a biased conclusion stemming from their frustration due to lack of access, not the cause of it.

The issue of equality is besides the point for me. I don't know or care much about such value-judgments. What is more important imo is who has how much power and how this power dynamic is going to change. Before in a "men work, women stay home" arrangement, almost all power laid with the men as women moved away from their families to settle among the family of their husbands. In this patrilocal residence pattern, both the livelihood and the lobbying power along with physical majority was with the men and his family. Urbanization and freedom of movement due to dispersion of capital, disrupts both of those power dynamics. Women don't move to their husband's families village or side of town. And women don't stay at home and depend economically on their husband for their livelihood. The two limiting factors that took away the mate choice priority from women is being accorded to them more and more.

Before the internet, men still held one key advantage; the power of the community. Communal gathering places which helped percolate ideas were dominantly male-oriented. Workplaces were also male-dominated and this caused a level of mate choice privilege for men in this communal places. There's a paradox here in that it should be expected that due to the physical differences, the less communal human interactions get, and the more individualistic, the more power is accorded to men in their relationships with women as they can dominate them physically away from any scrutiny. But the economic independence and the fact that social media reinforces gender-specific attitudes and a kind of comradery among the genders (as the types of content they consume is different due to both biological and cultural reasons), women who are being dominated in the household, just can leave. This takes the power of mate choice away from men and gives it to women. This is a frustrating outcome for men who assumed they have the upper hand. Then they come up with stories about how they are morally in the right and women are in the wrong; that's all fiction. Morality has nothing to do with it. Power dynamics do.
 

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I think, fundemntally it is not about the economic independence trend.

The reason why it may appear females are in better position today, is because they have equal (well, almost equal) rights, yet almost no responsibility in general. When it comes meteials and economic aspect of the life, they are treated equally as individuals, yet they are still treated as 'women' in (the traditional sense) in almost every other aspect. That is why despite the slogan of equality, the same bad actions/deeds has way more consequences for men than women.
But I'd like to hear more about what you mean here. I think I kind of understand but if you elaborated more concretely I'd understand more what is meant by this. I think this is an important issue, which will be a deciding factor in politics of many countries in the coming decades as this war will be fought politically along gender lines, rather than class or other ideological lines.
 

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Very interesting, you seems be looking at it through the lense of anthropology with an emphasis on 'biology'.

I am taking more of a sociology route.

I just have a couple of questions.

Urbanization and freedom of movement due to dispersion of capital, disrupts both of those power dynamics. Women don't move to their husband's families village or side of town. And women don't stay at home and depend economically on their husband for their livelihood.

women who are being dominated in the household, just can leave.

That is actually very accurate. Can't disagree with that.

The two limiting factors that took away the mate choice priority from women is being accorded to them more and more.

Also true

Meaning since females choose which male to be with (unless economic independence trends reverse), it's the males who will have to meet females where they stand in the end.


As an anthropological/cultural tug of war, it will be won in the long run by who has the priority on mate choice, i.e. females. It's a classic case of culture having some catching up to do with the changes in material realities.

But how are you getting to this? You seems to suggest mate choice priority has reversed/is reversing 100% or close to 100% the other way.

And only women get to choose now just like men did previously for most of humanity.

But I see it as, for the first men and women both having the ability to choose equally. That is women getting their choice now isn't an exclusive phenomenon in its nature. (Like how it was with men previously.) It really hasn't reversed the other way completely. Becuase, as long as men are economically independent and are not relying on their mates for living, (like how it was previously for women) they will retain their own mate choice priority alongside now women having their own. Hence, the power dynamic is really more like 50/50 now IMO. It is true for a long time privileged (men in this case) equality may feels like oppression. But that shouldn't cause that much frustration, should it?


Secondly, you emphasis on lack of access to female and sex for youth. Could you elaborate this more? I think I am missing something. Because, the way I see it, the premarital sex is higher then ever.
 
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But I'd like to hear more about what you mean here. I think I kind of understand but if you elaborated more concretely I'd understand more what is meant by this.

My apologies, I was too lazy to be accurate and precise in my post.

Tbh, I wasn't responding to your point directly on what is causing frustration of young men.

This was more like a broad and general observation. You can introduce more exceptions and additions to this as you like.

Also, I think this 'frustration' is fueled by various other factors too. One of them I would say, an increasimg deterioration of the oldest social institution of humanity. I.e. family.

Many of the households where most of these youth are growing up are not 'stable' and often fails to provide what a family structure is traditionally ought to provide for its very young members.
 

Rooxbar

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But how are you getting to this? You seems to suggest mate choice priority has reversed/is reversing 100% or close to 100% the other way.

And only women get to choose now just like men did previously for most of humanity.

But I see it as, for the first men and women both having the ability to choose equally.That is women getting their choice now isn't an exclusive phenomenon in its nature. (Like how it was with men previously.) It really hasn't reversed the other way completely. Becuase, as long as men economically independent and are not relying on their mates for living, (like how it was previously for women) the men will continue to have their own mate choice priority alongside women having their own. Hence, the power dynamic is really more like 50/50 now. It is true for long timed privileged (men in this case) equality may feels like oppression. But that shouldn't cause that much frustration, should it?


Secondly, you emphasis on lack of access to female and sex for youth. Could you elaborate this more? I think I am missing something. Because, the way I see it, the premarital sex is higher then ever.

Within the purview of primatology, the mate choice lies with females in a neutral environment, because women make almost all of the investment in the reproduction process. Competition is between males. Cultural practices stemming from neolithic farming transition which facilitated accumulation of resources, made that accumulation and access to it the main resource instead of babies. And males due to physical strength got to occupy the top of the pyramid of hierarchy as they were those who could gather and hold the resources which they could amass. This made mate choice in humans gravitate towards an organization more like chimps, as in harem organization. This primatological premise is corroborated by works in anthropology which show when such an accumulation doesn't exist, mate choice lies with females and whenever farming and accumulation start to appear there is a shift towards patrilocality and harem organization.

The reversal of this will get us back to a more primal position (as noted above by our friend Shearer in the works of Gimbutas and many others) where the choice lies with females. Females try to choose mates which will stay with them throughout pregnancy and lactation and possibly longer. Since the choice is with females, males have to compete among each other to get access.

Now about lack of access: https://www.lovehoney.ca/blog/gen-z-are-having-less-sex-here-is-why.html
There have been multiple pieces of research showing that social isolation, less communal activities, work from home, school from home, etc. have caused a decrease in amount of sex in the younger population and this is also getting ideologically amplified through social media bubbles and causing even more aversion and tension. This along with the rising expectations stemming from much easier access to depictions of sex as opposed to the real thing, creates this frustration. So the argument is, this frustration will continue to grow in that generation (as people don't change ideological views that much, and for ideological changes you need generational change), until the next generation sees the failures of that approach and meets females where they are at, which that original graph labels as "liberal", which just means "non-testosterone based cultural attitudes".
 

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