Defence Q&A how to counter F35's?

[Heartbang]

What counter meassures can countries take when facing the F-35 ?

 

[Ravenman]

Because that’s just an excuse. The Israelis are already using their F-35 in Syria where Russian S400 are stationed, and what happened ? They keep destroying Syrian air defenses like there’s no tomorrow.
People think that AA are some sort of magic things that will magically stop any enemy fighters jet incursion into their territory but that’s not how it works. The only thing AA will provide you is to gain some time for your Air Force.

The S400 in Hmeinm Airbase were never activated during Israeli air raids.

Those were S200 and S300. And with those 2 older versions activated the Israelis attacked Damascus only from out the Lebanese airspace using the northern mountains and a Russian reconnaissance plane as cover because the SAM’s chased them non-stop and they lost at least one F35 due to “maintenance problems.”

When the Rafales and F35’s are joining the Hellenic Air Force, then its time for Turkey to activate the S400. The Aegean would change in a no-fly zone.

 

[Oublious]

damn I was worried for a while, they are emitting signals so our E7 Awacs have ESM capabilities and Interesting technologies to localize enemy F 35 or F22, care to eloborate a bit further since it realy sounds interesting like other E7s i.e Korean, Australian, UKs E7s have this Interesting technologies as well or only we have it?

LoL

I am expecting that coming from you with all that information you came up about the F35 and F22.

 

[Ryder]

My suggestion

Anti air defence systems

Advanced radars

Electronic warfare

Also having long range air to air missiles

Finding ways to take out stealth

Lots of possibilities but its not easy

Strength in numbers would be costly but at times you got to overwhelm the F35 or the F22 with swarms of jets even unmanned systems.

 

[500]

The S400 in Hmeinm Airbase were never activated during Israeli air raids.

Those were S200 and S300.

There is little difference between latest version of S-300 which Syrians possess (S-300PMU2) and S-400.

And with those 2 older versions activated the Israelis attacked Damascus only from out the Lebanese airspace using the northern mountains

Russian generals disagree with you original message + google translate:

"8 октября в 21:33 шесть тактических истребителей F-16 ВВС Израиля с пересечением государственной границы Сирийской Арабской Республики в районе Эт-Танф нанесли удар 12 управляемыми ракетами по аэродрому "Т-4" ("Тифор") в провинции Хомс", - сказал Кулить.


"On October 8, at 21:33, six tactical fighters of the F-16 of the Israeli Air Force crossing the state border of the Syrian Arab Republic in the Et-Tanf area struck 12 guided missiles along the T-4 airfield (Tifor) in the province of Homs",- said (admiral) Kulit.


"8 ноября с 20:16 до 20:23 шесть тактических истребителей F-15 ВВС Израиля, нарушив государственную границу САР со стороны Северного Ливана, нанесли удар восемью управляемыми ракетами по объектам тылового обеспечения правительственных сил САР в провинции Хомс. Дежурными силами сирийских ПВО из находящихся на вооружении вооруженных сил САР комплексов российского производства "Бук-М2" и "Панцирь-С" уничтожено шесть ракет", - приводятся его слова в сообщении Минобороны РФ.

"November 8 from 20:16 to 20:23 Six Tactical fighters of the F-15 of the Israeli Air Force, violating the state border of the SAR from the Northern Lebanon, struck eight controlled missiles on the rear support of the government forces of the SAR in the province of Homs. On duty forces of Syrian air defense from Syrian air defense The armed forces of the Armed Forces of the SARs of Russian-made “Buk-M2” and “PAPIR-S” were destroyed by six missiles, ”his words are given in the message of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

and a Russian reconnaissance plane as cover because the SAM’s chased them non-stop and they lost at least one F35 due to “maintenance problems.”

No Israeli F-35 was ever lost.

 

[Gessler]

I'll offer my thoughts on a more broad answer "how to counter stealth aircraft".

Surveillance
Long-wavelength radars have historically never had much of a fundamental problem with detecting LO/VLO aircraft - the only aircraft that can reliably defeat these radars are the likes of B-2 Spirit. The only problem is finding a way to make use of the low resolution, low fidelity output provided by these radars which in no way can be used as targeting data. Bistatic & multistatic radar setups also fall into this segment.

Acquisition & Platform Fire Control
The basic premise of stealth aircraft is to deflect most of incoming transmission & ensuring only a minimal fraction of original energy is allowed to go back to receiver - which is then subsequentially lost among clutter by receiving radar. Countering this would require radars that can paint targets with a larger amount of initial transmitted power, and receivers & radar computers of higher fidelity and 'intelligence' so that the returned signature is better identified. Technologies like machine learning have the potential to offer revolutionary solutions in that last past, though they aren't there yet. The advent of GaN substrate has enabled the TRMs to possess the capacity for much higher transmission power...however, the actual amount of power available for the TRMs to harness (supplied by the aircraft's own engine + APUs) has not really undergone a similar improvement so there are hard limitations especially for airborne radars. This is why most of the 'improvements' enabled by GaN are simply a result of the electronics becoming more efficient rather than actually having higher power outputs.

Platforms that have larger power supplies to draw upon (such as ground stations or AEW platforms with room for large APUs) will be critical for reliable acquisition of LO/VLO targets using GaN i.e. force-multiplier platforms will become a necessity. If you can't sustain the allocation of these platforms throughout all stages of the conflict your aircraft will be disadvantaged.

Payload Fire Control & Guidance
Traditional X/Ka/Ku-band seekers onboard active radar-guided missiles will have a hard time finding VLO targets, easy to spoof when combined with chaff. AESA-based seekers such as those deployed by Japan will offer some solutions. In the future GaN-based AESA seekers combined with powerful miniaturized APUs onboard BVRAAMs will become necessary in order to increase the probability of a successful hit/kill against VLO targets.

Network Centricity
Perhaps the most element will be to combine the outputs of all these platforms to build a coherent situation picture. Secure High-bandwidth airborne & air-to-ground/ground-to-air datalinks will be an absolute necessity to do so otherwise even being able to detect the presence of VLO aircraft via long-wavelength radars will not result in a successful interception, as I imagine is the case with S400s in Syria...not that the S400 radars are particularly impressive, AFAIK they're not even an AESA.

 

[Ravenman]

No Israeli F-35 was ever lost.

F-35 Under Attack? Did Russian S-300 Missile 'Bring Down' World's Best Stealth Fighter Over Syria

Earlier this month, the S-300 air defense system attacked Israeli jets in northwestern Syria, marking the first instance of Russian-made S-300 missiles attacking Israeli warplanes. World’s Largest Meeting? 100,000 Chinese Officials Meet To Discuss A ‘Serious Issue’ Plaguing Beijing According to...

eurasiantimes.com

 

[Yasar_TR]

No Longer 'stealth', Russia Can Detect US F-22 And F-35 Fighter Jets

The United States may be nervous, after its fighter jets with stealth technology, the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, are said to be detectable by radar.

voi.id

Interesting article, claiming Russian Nebo-M Radars being able to detect stealth planes. Not just stealth planes but hypersonic missiles from a distance of 600km.

 

[B.t.N]

Well the Israelis only targeted the Syrian ones. I'm not sure about the efficiency of the Syrian crew but there is a big chance that it is the case.



Well It's very likely, why flying F-35 otherwise ?



We don't know if they managed to pick up the F-35 on their radar. For that to happen the Israelis have to fly pretty close to the S-400 but I don't think that was the case. Maybe @500 can provide more details.



Don't know about these rumors but it seems believable to me. When fighters jet are being locked by an air defense system they can see it on their RWR and launch an Anti-Radiation missle at them.

Syrian air defences are under Russian control, majority operated by Syrian techicians, a not-so-secretive reason why Israeli pilots feel so free to shoot those defences. And Russia would like to avoid an extensive Israeli retaliation, and thus the humiliation, so she is reluctant to press any buttons! Last time a Syrian missile (out of dozens fired) shot an Israeli F16, Kheil HaAvir wiped a third of Syrian air defences off the planet. Russia’s limited logistic capabilities, Ukraine’s mud, the look of Russian troops heading back to motherland in plastic bags, you can add several other reasons.

However, Russia has sent a definitive message to Israel (rather a reminder of her red lines) in this last incident. An S300 battery shoots a single missile (not locked onto any particular plane) to say adios to Israeli jets heading back to base after the raid. Rules of engament may change at any time, as this is a drop too much vodka for the bear!

Another interesting detail is that you do not get to hear Israeli F35s being involved in any of those air raids, deep into Syria (It brings to mind the US‘ arguments, S-ANYTHING and F35 shall never co -exist!). And there is no proof that the Israeli Air Force have flown them for any other duty, other than recon (not counting a few Iranian drones they shot down, they were easy prey!).

There seems to be cover-up, and this could be the only thing that is stealth(!) about it. Even those F35 pilots would not bet on its low visibility. Instead, they rave its EW capabilities. and how this perfectly engineered EW suite make the F35 a near-impossible target to track and shoot off the skies!

 

[Oublious]

No Longer 'stealth', Russia Can Detect US F-22 And F-35 Fighter Jets

The United States may be nervous, after its fighter jets with stealth technology, the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, are said to be detectable by radar.

voi.id

Interesting article, claiming Russian Nebo-M Radars being able to detect stealth planes. Not just stealth planes but hypersonic missiles from a distance of 600km.

View attachment 44392

Detect and pin point track is other side of the story, it is nothing but claim.

 

[RogerRanger]

A fully integrated space to sub-surface air defence network with air superiority fighters. The issue is the Americans can fly the F-35's from carriers to its hard to get the right attack angle, they have long-range stand off bombs/missiles, they have their own electronic counter measures. So with need air borne C&C aircraft and AEW aircraft, as well as MPA attack aircraft to attack the ships/carrier. Then you need operational/strategic range missiles to attack the air bases they are flying from. Main thing I think is have better fighter aircraft then the F-35 to shoot them down. Very few countries have air superiority aircraft.

 

[500]

F-35 Under Attack? Did Russian S-300 Missile 'Bring Down' World's Best Stealth Fighter Over Syria

Earlier this month, the S-300 air defense system attacked Israeli jets in northwestern Syria, marking the first instance of Russian-made S-300 missiles attacking Israeli warplanes. World’s Largest Meeting? 100,000 Chinese Officials Meet To Discuss A ‘Serious Issue’ Plaguing Beijing According to...

eurasiantimes.com

F-35 was not lost. Israel reported about F-35 hit by bird, safely landed and repaired and Russian trolls based on this report invented silly story that it was hit by S-200.