Defence Fair IDEF 2025 News & Discussion Updates

[mTT]

No joke: Wait for tomorrow!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1948788474900877555

Engine ?

 

[Sanchez]

Probably another MOU for Indonesia.

 

[Strong AI]

>> Yes. We are currently at the booth of TEI, Turkey's leading aviation engine company. Standing beside me is TEI General Manager Mr. Akşit. First of all, hello and welcome. Your booth is very busy, there's an incredible amount of interest. What would you like to say?

>> Thank you. Let's just say, it's getting better every year. We’ve had a very strong start at IDEF this year, thank God. And of course, this also means we’re able to bring more and more things each year. Ten years ago, we didn’t have many engines to exhibit here. Now, we have our UAV engine, our helicopter engine, and our aircraft engine – all here.

>> If you could briefly talk about the engines being showcased here, could you tell us about the one we're standing in front of?

>> Yes, of course. This engine has a special feature. We particularly wanted to bring it to this IDEF. It’s a part of Turkish aviation history. God willing, when we’re fully done with it, we’ll place it in a museum-like area at the entrance of TEI. This is the first truly domestically developed and produced jet engine in Turkey that has powered a manned flight. You might have seen the video of Gökbey’s first flight – this engine was one of the engines used in that flight.

>> So it actually flew?

>> Yes, it did. After the flight, we continued testing it. We showed that the engine can produce enough power to lift the helicopter. That part is done. The next question becomes: how durable is it? Will it fail after three months or five months? Everyone wonders that. So, we took the engine and put it through endurance tests after the flight. There’s a specific international standard test defined by EASA (European Union Aviation Safety Agency) for civil aviation engines. We intentionally overwork the engine – basically, we “torture” it. For this motor, it’s the CSE 740 test. We repeated this test 25 times and passed every time. The engine still works.

Then we asked: how much power can we push it to? It reached 1,740 horsepower, and we even pushed it to 1,800. At those levels, we cycled the engine multiple times, starting and stopping, and it’s still working. We’re continuing with altitude and other tests as well.

>> So development and testing are ongoing.

>> Yes, we’re pushing the engine until it gives up – on purpose. So it wears out and experiences every possible condition it might face during its service life. That way, we won't encounter surprises. We’re proving its durability.

>> Even under worst-case scenarios, you want to see what would happen.

>> Exactly. Realistically, Gökbey isn’t expected to reach 1,800 horsepower during normal flight, but we’ve pushed the engine to well above that just to see. Thankfully, it's still operational.

>> Impressive. Now let’s talk about the other engine at your booth that’s drawing a lot of attention. Could you tell us about it?

>> That’s our aircraft engine – the TF6000. Earlier we talked about the helicopter engine – I should also mention that it's now at the serial production stage. We’ve pretty much finished negotiations on pricing and quantities. Once the contract is signed, the Presidency of Defense Industries will announce it. So yes, that engine is ready for serial production.

Now back to the TF6000 – we ran this engine for the first time last year, and the videos were shared online by the defense leadership. We're now preparing it for flight, pushing it to more mature and higher power levels. This engine is intended for the first two versions of the Kızılelma platform. The third version uses a different engine.

>> Is this the engine used in the most recent version?

>> No, the last version uses a newer engine. But the earlier two used a slightly older engine – same size and weight roughly, but less advanced. All the Kızılelmas you’ve seen flying in ceremonies so far are powered by that engine. We’re now working on making this one fully flight-ready.

Since the platform is single-engine, we’re conducting extensive testing. If it were twin-engine, the risk would be lower. But for single-engine platforms, every risk must be tested and validated before flight.

>> And these engines are being developed in record time.

>> Absolutely. Normally, developing a true military turbofan engine like this takes no less than 10 years. But over the past decade, we’ve developed everything you see here – helicopter, UAV, and aircraft engines – all from scratch. And we’re even preparing the supersonic version of this one.

>> Let’s take a look at that one too.

>> Yes, this is the upgraded version of the TF6000.

>> Where will this be used?

>> This one includes an afterburner and reaches 10,000 pounds of thrust. It's also aimed at platforms like Kızılelma. The TF6000 is more suitable for subsonic applications like ANKA-3. This upgraded version is more suitable for supersonic and stealth aircraft.

>> So it’s better suited for stealth aircraft.

>> Yes. TF6000 is better in terms of infrared visibility – lower heat signature. The afterburner-equipped engine provides much more thrust, but it leaves a bigger thermal trail, which is a drawback for stealth. This is what current F-16s also use. But the KAAN fighter aims to fly supersonically without leaving a heat signature – that’s what makes it a 5th generation jet. We're working on that as well, though we still have a way to go.

KAAN’s engine will be in the same class as Eurojet – which, by the way, took Europe 17 years to develop. So yes, it'll take time, but we’re working at full speed. It’s in a higher class.

>> Let’s move to the next engine.

>> That’s our PD170 series. It has already proven itself. A few months ago, it reached 40,000 ft altitude with Aksungur, setting a world record. You might say, “But jets fly higher,” which is true – but this is a piston engine. Jets operate better at high altitudes. For piston engines, high altitude is a major challenge. So reaching 40,000 ft is a big deal.

>> And it was developed by TEI.

>> Yes. We lead globally in this category. When we first introduced the PD170, we said it was designed to reach 40,000–45,000 ft. Now our competitors are following us. Initially, their engines reached 25,000 ft. Now they’ve upgraded to 30,000 ft. But it’s good to have competition – it means we’re setting the standard.

>> A source of pride. But you’re not stopping here.

>> Absolutely not. We’re working on even better engines. Let them try to keep up.

>> I see another engine behind us. Could you tell us briefly about that one too?

>> That’s actually a lesser-known engine. It’s domestically produced but not nationally designed – it’s manufactured under license. Still, it’s made at TEI facilities in Eskişehir. We’ve produced and delivered nearly 100 of them so far.

>> Which platforms use it?

>> It’s used in the locally produced version of the Black Hawk helicopter (Kara Şahin). The Turkish military uses them. Especially in summer wildfire season – you know how severe the fires can get – these engines perform thousands of sorties every year. But no one calls us – and that’s a good thing! It means they’re working without issues.

>> So there’s no negative feedback from the military.

>> None at all. Just regular maintenance and routine operation.

>> Lastly, could you tell us about the KAAN engine?

>> The engine for KAAN has reached a significant design maturity. We’re now talking about production planning. There’s still a journey ahead, but we’re moving faster than most expected.

>> Will the timeline be sooner than anticipated?

>> We’re doing our best, God willing. Hopefully, we’ll start testing it soon.

>> We already have full confidence in TEI. Our national fighter jet was delivered to the Turkish people in record time. We believe the engine will also be integrated into KAAN quickly.

>> Thank you. Turkey needed engines – UAV engines are now at international level. The helicopter engine is entering serial production. The only missing part was the jet engine. We’ve now shown with the TF6000 that we can make a real military turbofan engine. The only thing left is KAAN’s fifth-generation engine. That’s the world’s top level of technology. We're almost there.

>> And it’s the engine that will truly make KAAN a fifth-gen fighter.

>> Exactly. Without our national engine, the KAAN can’t fully be fifth-gen. The current F110 engine emits too much heat when the afterburner is on – it’s easily visible in infrared. But stealth is a defining feature of fifth-gen fighters.

>> Thank you very much, sir.

>> Thank you. It was a pleasure.

 

[Shtr]

I think it is related to GE's engine.

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1948788474900877555

Engine ?

The emoji tells a sale.

Probably another MOU for Indonesia.

There was already a signing with two indonesian companies regarding KAAN.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Solutions

pavo-group.com

Are they an actual company with R&D and production or is it a front for something else?

 

[mTT]

Probably another MOU for Indonesia.

MOU for KSA ??

 

[Philip the Arab]

MANSUP-ER powered by KTJ-3200 on display

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1948438022120194108

 

[Philip the Arab]

MOU for KSA ??

UAE/KSA possibly

There have been various rumors UAE is shifting out F-16E from service within decade. F-35 purchase was meant to complement and replace F-16 and that was 2020. F-35 isn’t going to happen and they don’t want something that is QMEd to death.

There was something odd I saw when MBZ visited Turkey.




Saudi Arabia needs Tornado replacement. EFTs and F-15SAs are here to stay for now.

 

[hugh]

>> Yes. We are currently at the booth of TEI, Turkey's leading aviation engine company. Standing beside me is TEI General Manager Mr. Akşit. First of all, hello and welcome. Your booth is very busy, there's an incredible amount of interest. What would you like to say?

>> Thank you. Let's just say, it's getting better every year. We’ve had a very strong start at IDEF this year, thank God. And of course, this also means we’re able to bring more and more things each year. Ten years ago, we didn’t have many engines to exhibit here. Now, we have our UAV engine, our helicopter engine, and our aircraft engine – all here.

>> If you could briefly talk about the engines being showcased here, could you tell us about the one we're standing in front of?

>> Yes, of course. This engine has a special feature. We particularly wanted to bring it to this IDEF. It’s a part of Turkish aviation history. God willing, when we’re fully done with it, we’ll place it in a museum-like area at the entrance of TEI. This is the first truly domestically developed and produced jet engine in Turkey that has powered a manned flight. You might have seen the video of Gökbey’s first flight – this engine was one of the engines used in that flight.

>> So it actually flew?

>> Yes, it did. After the flight, we continued testing it. We showed that the engine can produce enough power to lift the helicopter. That part is done. The next question becomes: how durable is it? Will it fail after three months or five months? Everyone wonders that. So, we took the engine and put it through endurance tests after the flight. There’s a specific international standard test defined by EASA (European Union Aviation Safety Agency) for civil aviation engines. We intentionally overwork the engine – basically, we “torture” it. For this motor, it’s the CSE 740 test. We repeated this test 25 times and passed every time. The engine still works.

Then we asked: how much power can we push it to? It reached 1,740 horsepower, and we even pushed it to 1,800. At those levels, we cycled the engine multiple times, starting and stopping, and it’s still working. We’re continuing with altitude and other tests as well.

>> So development and testing are ongoing.

>> Yes, we’re pushing the engine until it gives up – on purpose. So it wears out and experiences every possible condition it might face during its service life. That way, we won't encounter surprises. We’re proving its durability.

>> Even under worst-case scenarios, you want to see what would happen.

>> Exactly. Realistically, Gökbey isn’t expected to reach 1,800 horsepower during normal flight, but we’ve pushed the engine to well above that just to see. Thankfully, it's still operational.

>> Impressive. Now let’s talk about the other engine at your booth that’s drawing a lot of attention. Could you tell us about it?

>> That’s our aircraft engine – the TF6000. Earlier we talked about the helicopter engine – I should also mention that it's now at the serial production stage. We’ve pretty much finished negotiations on pricing and quantities. Once the contract is signed, the Presidency of Defense Industries will announce it. So yes, that engine is ready for serial production.

Now back to the TF6000 – we ran this engine for the first time last year, and the videos were shared online by the defense leadership. We're now preparing it for flight, pushing it to more mature and higher power levels. This engine is intended for the first two versions of the Kızılelma platform. The third version uses a different engine.

>> Is this the engine used in the most recent version?

>> No, the last version uses a newer engine. But the earlier two used a slightly older engine – same size and weight roughly, but less advanced. All the Kızılelmas you’ve seen flying in ceremonies so far are powered by that engine. We’re now working on making this one fully flight-ready.

Since the platform is single-engine, we’re conducting extensive testing. If it were twin-engine, the risk would be lower. But for single-engine platforms, every risk must be tested and validated before flight.

>> And these engines are being developed in record time.

>> Absolutely. Normally, developing a true military turbofan engine like this takes no less than 10 years. But over the past decade, we’ve developed everything you see here – helicopter, UAV, and aircraft engines – all from scratch. And we’re even preparing the supersonic version of this one.

>> Let’s take a look at that one too.

>> Yes, this is the upgraded version of the TF6000.

>> Where will this be used?

>> This one includes an afterburner and reaches 10,000 pounds of thrust. It's also aimed at platforms like Kızılelma. The TF6000 is more suitable for subsonic applications like ANKA-3. This upgraded version is more suitable for supersonic and stealth aircraft.

>> So it’s better suited for stealth aircraft.

>> Yes. TF6000 is better in terms of infrared visibility – lower heat signature. The afterburner-equipped engine provides much more thrust, but it leaves a bigger thermal trail, which is a drawback for stealth. This is what current F-16s also use. But the KAAN fighter aims to fly supersonically without leaving a heat signature – that’s what makes it a 5th generation jet. We're working on that as well, though we still have a way to go.

KAAN’s engine will be in the same class as Eurojet – which, by the way, took Europe 17 years to develop. So yes, it'll take time, but we’re working at full speed. It’s in a higher class.

>> Let’s move to the next engine.

>> That’s our PD170 series. It has already proven itself. A few months ago, it reached 40,000 ft altitude with Aksungur, setting a world record. You might say, “But jets fly higher,” which is true – but this is a piston engine. Jets operate better at high altitudes. For piston engines, high altitude is a major challenge. So reaching 40,000 ft is a big deal.

>> And it was developed by TEI.

>> Yes. We lead globally in this category. When we first introduced the PD170, we said it was designed to reach 40,000–45,000 ft. Now our competitors are following us. Initially, their engines reached 25,000 ft. Now they’ve upgraded to 30,000 ft. But it’s good to have competition – it means we’re setting the standard.

>> A source of pride. But you’re not stopping here.

>> Absolutely not. We’re working on even better engines. Let them try to keep up.

>> I see another engine behind us. Could you tell us briefly about that one too?

>> That’s actually a lesser-known engine. It’s domestically produced but not nationally designed – it’s manufactured under license. Still, it’s made at TEI facilities in Eskişehir. We’ve produced and delivered nearly 100 of them so far.

>> Which platforms use it?

>> It’s used in the locally produced version of the Black Hawk helicopter (Kara Şahin). The Turkish military uses them. Especially in summer wildfire season – you know how severe the fires can get – these engines perform thousands of sorties every year. But no one calls us – and that’s a good thing! It means they’re working without issues.

>> So there’s no negative feedback from the military.

>> None at all. Just regular maintenance and routine operation.

>> Lastly, could you tell us about the KAAN engine?

>> The engine for KAAN has reached a significant design maturity. We’re now talking about production planning. There’s still a journey ahead, but we’re moving faster than most expected.

>> Will the timeline be sooner than anticipated?

>> We’re doing our best, God willing. Hopefully, we’ll start testing it soon.

>> We already have full confidence in TEI. Our national fighter jet was delivered to the Turkish people in record time. We believe the engine will also be integrated into KAAN quickly.

>> Thank you. Turkey needed engines – UAV engines are now at international level. The helicopter engine is entering serial production. The only missing part was the jet engine. We’ve now shown with the TF6000 that we can make a real military turbofan engine. The only thing left is KAAN’s fifth-generation engine. That’s the world’s top level of technology. We're almost there.

>> And it’s the engine that will truly make KAAN a fifth-gen fighter.

>> Exactly. Without our national engine, the KAAN can’t fully be fifth-gen. The current F110 engine emits too much heat when the afterburner is on – it’s easily visible in infrared. But stealth is a defining feature of fifth-gen fighters.

>> Thank you very much, sir.

>> Thank you. It was a pleasure.

TL;DR, He said nothing of value

 

[Strong AI]

TL;DR, He said nothing of value

Well, he said for example that serial production of TS-1400 is starting now.

 

[Samba]

Well, he said for example that serial production of TS-1400 is starting now.

I think this was the most prominent news.

 

[Strong AI]

I think this was the most prominent news.

And this

>> The engine for KAAN has reached a significant design maturity. We’re now talking about production planning. There’s still a journey ahead, but we’re moving faster than most expected.

>> Will the timeline be sooner than anticipated?

>> We’re doing our best, God willing. Hopefully, we’ll start testing it soon.

 

[RMZN]

UAE/KSA possibly

There have been various rumors UAE is shifting out F-16E from service within decade. F-35 purchase was meant to complement and replace F-16 and that was 2020. F-35 isn’t going to happen and they don’t want something that is QMEd to death.

There was something odd I saw when MBZ visited Turkey.

UAE and Turkey agree to protect data in secret defense projects - Nordic Monitor

Levent Kenez/Stockholm

nordicmonitor.com

Saudi Arabia needs Tornado replacement. EFTs and F-15SAs are here to stay for now.

>nordicmonitor

 

[hugh]

Well, he said for example that serial production of TS-1400 is starting now.

not really news to me. he's been talking about serial production for a long time now and recently said the test campaign for TS1400 is over and just waiting for the certification.

The engine for KAAN has reached a significant design maturity. We’re now talking about production planning.

what does significant design maturity mean exactly? can we say the same for TF6000 which is far along in its development than TF35000 but still won't see any flight till 2028? And then he says "talking about production planning". these statements are too vague to infer anything from.

i didn't say "he said nothing of important" out of spite. he doesn't have to share important news each month. he will share the significant milestones once they're reached(assuming ssb gives permission). but this not it.

 

[Samba]

I would expect more solid news from tf1000 as engineers were shifted from tf6000 to tf10k but they skipped that part quickly

 

[Philip the Arab]

>nordicmonitor

Don’t know much about them, but that doesn’t mean this wasn’t signed.

Türkiye, UAE sign 7 strategic deals to deepen ties

Türkiye and the United Arab Emirates on Wednesday signed seven bilateral agreements during a high-level visit by UAE President Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed...

www.dailysabah.com

 

[Sanchez]

Don’t know much about them, but that doesn’t mean this wasn’t signed.

I read it, it was surprisingly clean for what they usually spew out with some editorial opinions smudged in in the middle. It's a gulenist run website, we don't like it very much.

 

[Strong AI]

Ah, I thought you guys were made because it was Kurdish run but that tracks.

Bro what, we don't have problems with Kurds. We have problems with terrorists.

 

[Sanchez]

That's a big claim. UAE?

"The countdown has begun for the biggest export signature in the history of the Republic!
The official signatures for our national combat aircraft KAAN will be signed tomorrow at IDEF."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1948823297526726714