TR Imprisoning Istanbul mayor and it’s ramifications for defence industry

[TheInsider]

CHP is holding a huge rally at the center of Istanbul, and none of the national TV stations are reporting it out of fear of the government. That's Turkish-type democracy for you.

 

[Spitfire9]

CHP is holding a huge rally at the center of Istanbul, and none of the national TV stations are reporting it out of fear of the government. That's Turkish-type democracy for you.

So what does Erdogan do to suppress it being reported - stop access to internet feeds from outside Turkiye? Make it illegal to listen to the BBC World Service?

PS

A mass rally organised by the main opposition party in Turkey, the Republican People’s Party (CHP), kicked off in Istanbul on Saturday. While student groups have maintained the momentum with smaller protests ever since city mayor Ekrem Imamoglu was arrested on March 19, this is the first major demonstration to take place since Tuesday.

Hundreds of thousands join mass opposition protest in Istanbul

A mass rally organised by the main opposition party in Turkey, the Republican People’s Party (CHP), kicked off in Istanbul on Saturday. While student groups have maintained the momentum with smaller…

www.france24.com

Right now I'm listening to a BBC reporter talking from the centre of Istanbul. It is reported that a Swedish reporter who arrived in Turkiye on Thursday has been arrested, accused of insulting the president. The reporter was in Sweden at the time.

Am I going to be arrested if I go to Turkeye? I accuse Erdogan of being an anti-democratic autocrat.

 

[ADMusa]

If Turkiye needs a fighter until KAAN arrives, that would be why it is a little bit interested/interested/so interested in Eurofighter. The EU may need Turkiye more than Turkiye needs the EU as far as military and security goes. What has that got to do with how locking up your opponents, locking up journalists etc affects the supply of arms needed by Turkiye to Turkiye?

Note that there's a difference between a "politically motivated arrest" and "arrests on false grounds". If Imamoglu committed even one of those crimes he's accused of, then jailing him is 100% legal. However, "legal" arrests can also be politically motivated. This happens when there's selective punishment. That's why a popular opposition politician must be extremely careful not to stain his records, because that's the first place the government would look to destroy him. The same thing is happening to Imran Khan in Pakistan. He's guilty in the Toshakhana case and it is enough to disqualify him from ever becoming Pakistan's prime minister. But that doesn't disqualify his party, which is what the Pakistani deep state fears.

Imamoglu's case has political elements due to his popularity with the secularists and his threat to Muslim values by amplifying Western values. I think he'll not be released no matter how much CHP supporters protest. The CHP should concentrate on building another popular figure to replace Imamoglu because his political career is almost certainly over. His biggest crime was to side with the Western world by amplifying their values in Turkiye. Most Turks probably know the West/America can never be Turkiye's friend. It can only be Turkiye's Boss or Enemy, but never friend. Erdogan wants neither of this for Turkiye.

Turks are VERY VERY lucky to have a leader like Erdogan. I love the Turks because of my love for Erdogan. I will keep supporting my government's policies that are friendly to Turkiye as long as Turkiye continues to protect Muslims in the MENA region. I am among Nigerians advocating for my government to replace America and Europe with Turkiye as our main defence partner. It's already happening and I hope this cooperation diversifies into every other field. I wish Erdogan were my president. He's the undeclared king of the Muslim world. Nothing you say or do about him will make us hate him. his love is already stamped on our hearts. I'll one day visit Turkiye and I intend to invest a huge fortune in Turkiye because of my love for Erdogan.

 

[TheInsider]

So what does Erdogan do to suppress it being reported - stop access to internet feeds from outside Turkiye? Make it illegal to listen to the BBC World Service?

Nope. This is about Turkish terrestrial and satellite networks. Erdogan has big leverage on the owners of those TV channels. He is throwing his weight around, and those channels "voluntarily" choose not to report. They are not forced for anything, but every one of them is smart enough not to do it. Mafia style under the table intimidation.

 

[ADMusa]

People who decry democracy because "muh Western hypocrisy", never cared about democracy or a functioning government in the first place, they just want to shut down all criticism of their preferred form of governance.

Yes, democracy has flaws. And yet it is still better than basically every other system out there. And generally when people point out democracy's flaws, they are pointing out examples of people abusing democratic systems to institute more horrible forms of government. So it's not a problem of democracy per say but people abusing their freedoms under democracy to seize power and institute a more limiting form of politics where they are in control.

In which case the solution is not to cry that democracy has failed, it's to teach those who tried to abuse its weaknesses a very brutal lesson in "humility".

We decry democracy when its self-appointed pioneers attack currencies and economies to manipulate people's votes. We decry any democracy where the mass media targets certain countries and individuals for demonization. We decry democracy when foreign NGOs and foreign cash is pumped into the country to sway votes. We decry western democracy.

 

[Anastasius]

We decry democracy when its self-appointed pioneers attack currencies and economies to manipulate people's votes. We decry any democracy where the mass media targets certain countries and individuals for demonization. We decry democracy when foreign NGOs and foreign cash is pumped into the country to sway votes. We decry western democracy.

See the following from my comment:

And generally when people point out democracy's flaws, they are pointing out examples of people abusing democratic systems to institute more horrible forms of government. So it's not a problem of democracy per say but people abusing their freedoms under democracy to seize power and institute a more limiting form of politics where they are in control.

Assuming you are speaking in good faith my Nigerian friend, you are making the mistake of associating a good political system with something you hate (in this case, Western governments) and thus throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[TR_123456]

We decry democracy when its self-appointed pioneers attack currencies and economies to manipulate people's votes. We decry any democracy where the mass media targets certain countries and individuals for demonization. We decry democracy when foreign NGOs and foreign cash is pumped into the country to sway votes. We decry western democracy.

You keep telling that this is about Muslims and none Muslims,it is not.
It is about my country which is a secular democracy where you can be whoever whatever you want.
Again my country is a Muslim majority country not a Muslim country.
You are comparing a Turkish Muslim to an Afghan(100% sharia) Arab(GCC countries) Pakistani(90% sharia) Indian(100% sharia) etc?
How is that the same?
We will never have Sharia Law in my country no matter who comes to lead,you need to get that into your head.
This is Turkish internal politics,not Ummah politics,let the Arabs lead your Ummah,we are not and never will be a part of it,you need to understand that.
You have this simplistic approach to Geopolitics,it is not simple.
You can post all you want,we give you the freedom,every member has that freedom on this forum.
And this weak excuse of the forum being anti Muslim is lame which is always used by those not able to counter with facts.
Türkiye is a secular democracy,not bound to any religion!!!

 

[No Name]

CHP is holding a huge rally at the center of Istanbul, and none of the national TV stations are reporting it out of fear of the government. That's Turkish-type democracy for you.

This shows why CHP shares half the blame for Turkey's current troubles; they turned a pan-partisan pro-democracy protest on the brink of becoming a large-scale social movement that appealed across all walks of life into a party rally.

Some theorised that they did this because they were scared that the Turkish nationalists were taking over the protests. Since they wanted to keep the party as a pro-Kurdish and political Alevi party thing, they started to try and redirect the protest rather than conform to the will of the majority and embrace Turkish nationism.

CHP should never have been unbanned they only get votes because the use the memory of Ataturk to trick people into voting for them if they didn't couldn't use ataturk then some other political party would have taken their place and would have checked AKP long ago.

 

[Spitfire9]

We decry democracy when its self-appointed pioneers attack currencies and economies to manipulate people's votes. We decry any democracy where the mass media targets certain countries and individuals for demonization. We decry democracy when foreign NGOs and foreign cash is pumped into the country to sway votes. We decry western democracy.

I am not quite sure who 'We' are but if you refer to Muslims intent on destroying all society that is not Muslim and imposing Islam on the world, a lot of people decry that.

I have not counted how many they have killed in my country but it is quite a few. What was the crime of the victims: apparently it was to live in a state that is not a religious state but one that accepts that human beings have different religious beliefs and are free to practise those beliefs on condition that they do not limit the freedoms and protections the law guarantees to all. For example, if one's religion dictates that females must not be educated, too bad - the law of the country demands that they are.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Well, I was going to write a very long response to @ADMusa 's post. But my learned friend @TR_123456 has said everything that could be said.
Just to add;
Turkish constitution's unchangeable second article states that :
"The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social State governed by the rule of law, respectful of human rights, loyal to Atatürk's nationalism, and based on the fundamental principles set forth in the preamble, within the understanding of social peace, national solidarity and justice"

 

[ADMusa]

You keep telling that this is about Muslims and none Muslims,it is not.
It is about my country which is a secular democracy where you can be whatever you want.
Again my country is a Muslim majority country not a Muslim country.
You are comparing a Turkish Muslim to an Afghan(100% sharia) Arab(GCC countries) Pakistani(90% sharia) Indian(100% sharia) etc?
How is that the same?
We will never have Sharia Law in my country no matter who comes to lead,you need to get that into your head.
This is Turkish internal politics,not Ummah politics,let the Arabs lead your Ummah,we are not and never will be a part of it,you need to understand that.
You have this simplistic approach to Geopolitics,it is not simple.
You can post all you want,we give you the freedom,every member has that freedom on this forum.
And this weak excuse of the forum being anti Muslim is lame which is always used by those not able to counter with facts.
Türkiye is a secular democracy,not bound to any religion!!!

I agree, Turkiye is "currently" a secular democracy. But I disagree that it isn't bound to change. Yes, Turkiye is a Muslim-majority country not a Muslim country. No Shariah law for Turkiye in the foreseeable future. Yes, I agree.

You will not and never will be part of Ummah politics? My, friend, you are already a part of it. In fact, your country is leading the Ummah politics today. You seem to underestimate Turkiye's place and influence in the Muslim world.

My approach to geopolitics is "realistic" not "simplistic" which is why most of my predictions happen.

I love facts because they make me more enlightened. so, give me facts and I'll agree with you.

This is about (Muslims) vs (the West and their allies in the Muslim world.)

 

[ADMusa]

See the following from my comment:

Assuming you are speaking in good faith my Nigerian friend, you are making the mistake of associating a good political system with something you hate (in this case, Western governments) and thus throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

That's because when you talk about democracy, there's usually this implicit notion that you are refering to Western democracy.
The first Muslim caliph or world leader was chosen in a democratic fashion.

 

[ADMusa]

Well, I was going to write a very long response to @ADMusa 's post. But my learned friend @TR_123456 has said everything that could be said.
Just to add;
Turkish constitution's unchangeable second point states that :
"The Republic of Turkey is a democratic, secular and social State governed by the rule of law, respectful of human rights, loyal to Atatürk's nationalism, and based on the fundamental principles set forth in the preamble, within the understanding of social peace, national solidarity and justice"

Atatürk is a respected personality and a hero because of the great achievements he made for Turkiye. No one can deny this. But so too is Erdogan. Only that Erdogan is Atatürk's ideological opposite. Atatürk made Turks lead Turkiye. Erdogan wants to make Turks lead Turkiye and the Muslim world. What's wrong in that? It only increases Turkiye's power and influence globally.

Constitutions can be ammended or even rewritten when that serves a country's interests better.

The world's Muslims aren't striving for Shariah law in Turkiye. That'd be next to impossibile. But the AKP in Turkiye can facilitate the implementation of Shariah law in Muslim countries whose citizens want it. They can do this by protecting the governments in these countries militarily. In fact, we don't need Shariah law to deal with Western oppression. This fight is about ending Western oppression of Muslim countries, and it'll continue as long as the West doesn't stop dominating Muslim lands militarily. We don't accept defeat no matter how powerful our opponent. What we want is the weapons to fight back, and Turkiye seems to be the ideal country to provide such weapons. Let me give you an example: On the UAE's request, Haftar wanted to bomb the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) in support of the Rapid Support Forces (RSF). Erdogan warned that if Haftar did that, Turkiye would intervene in Sudan. This warning was enough to stop Haftar.

Lately, the SAF has been achieving one battlefield victory after another, liberating large areas from the RSF. This is tanks to Turkiye's drones and intelligence support. Muslims fear that the secularists in Turkiye will cut off this kind of support if they come to power. That's why we support the AKP.

 

[TR_123456]

No Shariah law for Turkiye in the foreseeable future.

Yeah dream on,what you want and hope will never happen.
I'm not saying this because i hope or want but because of facts,Turks will never accept sharia law where you can marry a 10 year old girl,where you can lose your hand for stealing food,where women have no rights,where a raped woman has to have 4 witnesses(men) to prove she was raped,where an imam decides your faith in every case etc.

You will not and never will be part of Ummah politics? My, friend, you are already a part of it. In fact, your country is leading the Ummah politics today. You seem to underestimate Turkiye's place and influence in the Muslim world.

No we are not,Erdogan used the ''Muslim card'' to gain popularity among Muslims and he succeeded.
You all fell for it.
He is a good politician.

My approach to geopolitics is "realistic" not "simplistic" which is why most of my predictions happen.

If your approach is realistic you know Turks dont and never will go for sharia law or any similar ruling system.
You know nothing about Turks.
Btw,we also do business with Nigerian companies,Muslims and Christians.
What are you going to do about your Christian population,also sharia law or just kill half of your population?

This is about (Muslims) vs (the West and their allies in the Muslim world.)

For you,not for us.
For us it is about allies,no religion involved.

 

[TR_123456]

The world's Muslims aren't striving for Shariah law in Turkiye. That'd be next to impossibile. But the AKP in Turkiye can facilitate the implementation of Shariah law in Muslim countries whose citizens want it. They can do this by protecting the governments in these countries militarily. In fact, we don't need Shariah law to deal with Western oppression. This fight is about ending Western oppression of Muslim countries, and it'll continue as long as the West doesn't stop dominating Muslim lands militarily. We don't accept defeat no matter how powerful our opponent.

See there is your first contradiction(mistake).
You said to me and i quote:

''No Shariah law for Turkiye in the foreseeable future.''
Post 51 of this thread.
Who would want sharia law in his/her country?
Just take a look at what has become of Afghanistan,you like that?
Even many Muslim countries dont want anything to do with Afghanistan,only China a n atheist country deals with them,Haram i tell you Haram!!!

 

[ADMusa]

I am not quite sure who 'We' are but if you refer to Muslims intent on destroying all society that is not Muslim and imposing Islam on the world, a lot of people decry that.

I have not counted how many they have killed in my country but it is quite a few. What was the crime of the victims: apparently it was to live in a state that is not a religious state but one that accepts that human beings have different religious beliefs and are free to practise those beliefs on condition that they do not limit the freedoms and protections the law guarantees to all. For example, if one's religion dictates that females must not be educated, too bad - the law of the country demands that they are.

By "We" I mean Muslims. In the Quran, specifically in Suraturl Baqara, Allah says, "La Ikraha fiddeen", which means there is NO compulsion in religion. No one should be compelled to join Islam or any religion. Allah also says in Suratul Kafiruun, "Lakum dinukum wal yadieen", which means: "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)." Practice your religion and let me practice mine.

Where did you get your information from about Muslim's intent on destroying any non Muslim society? I guess CNN, BBC, VOA, etc.

I'll tell you why the West doesn't like Islam. The first reason is that Islam calls to worshipping the one True God. The other reason is Islam's total intolerance for immorality. Islam doesn't compromise when it comes to immorality and has very strict moral standards. These are the two reasons why the West despises Islam so much.

The Christian West has killed far more people "illegally" than any other group of people in the world including Muslims. Would you want to debate me on this?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Atatürk is a respected personality and a hero because of the great achievements he made for Turkiye. No one can deny this. But so too is Erdogan. Only that Erdogan is Atatürk's ideological opposite. Atatürk made Turks lead Turkiye. Erdogan wants to make Turks lead Turkiye and the Muslim world. What's wrong in that? It only increases Turkiye's power and influence globally.

Constitutions can be ammended or even rewritten when that serves a country's interests better.

The world's Muslims aren't striving for Shariah law in Turkiye. That'd be next to impossibile. But the AKP in Turkiye can facilitate the implementation of Shariah law in Muslim countries whose citizens want it. They can do this by protecting the governments in these countries militarily. In fact, we don't need Shariah law to deal with Western oppression. This fight is about ending Western oppression of Muslim countries, and it'll continue as long as the West doesn't stop dominating Muslim lands militarily. We don't accept defeat no matter how powerful our opponent. What we want is the weapons to fight back, and Turkiye seems to be the ideal country to provide such weapons. Let me give you an example: On the UAE's request, Haftar wanted to bomb the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) in support of the Rapid Support Forces (RSF). Erdogan warned that if Haftar did that, Turkiye would intervene in Sudan. This warning was enough to stop Haftar.

Lately, the SAF has been achieving one battlefield victory after another, liberating large areas from the RSF. This is tanks to Turkiye's drones and intelligence support. Muslims fear that the secularists in Turkiye will cut off this kind of support if they come to power. That's why we support the AKP.

I am sorry but you are so much buried into Radical Islam that you want to get every country to be ruled by Sharia Law.

Unfortunately for you, majority of Turkey sees Erdoğan as the worst thing that happened to Turkey. Current polls show him having 30% support and still sliding. Among his supporters a good percentage are secularists and loyal to Atatürk's principles.

Turkey will never accept Sharia. Whatever AKP foreign policies have been towards other countries, Turkey itself will be secular and democratic facing West. Not East.

 

[ADMusa]

I want Muslims to liberate their lands from Western occupation, and Erdogan's foreign policies are in line with this wish.
How can majority of Turks see Erdogan as the worst president and yet they voted for him just about two years ago? If anything, Turkiye's economy has improved since then. Inflation has been falling for 9 straight months. Growth is higher than analysts predicted. I'd like to study the polls you are talking about. Any links?

Turkiye's economic problems started when Erdogan made radical changes in foreign policy. This is an idication of a Western attack.

 

[Anastasius]

That's because when you talk about democracy, there's usually this implicit notion that you are refering to Western democracy.
The first Muslim caliph or world leader was chosen in a democratic fashion.

There is no such thing as “Western” democracy. It’s simply democracy, a system of letting people have a vote in the governance of their country.

 

[ADMusa]

There is no such thing as “Western” democracy. It’s simply democracy, a system of letting people have a vote in the governance of their country.

There is a notion called Western democracy. This is democracy that doesn't threaten Western interests. That's what Western governments and most of their population mean when they talk about democracy.