India India - China Relations

[Nilgiri]

An excellent watch, the Admiral cuts right to the point of the matter at hand @#comcom @Joe Shearer

NEW DELHI: The defence agreement signed between U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia Reed Werner and Maldivian Minister of Defense Mariya Didi on September 10 is "very significant and India couldn't have asked for anything better," says Vice Admiral Anup Singh (Retd), former Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Naval Command. Speaking to StratNews Global Associate Editor Amitabh P. Revi, the ex-Deputy Chief of Naval Staff added that this framework security partnership with the Maldives and U.S. Defence Secretary Mark Esper's call to Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on September 11 has "one common thread, a message to China, which will spread all across the Indian Ocean Region." Admiral Singh noted that "things have changed since 2013, including India's mindset." He was referring to India reportedly putting the brakes on a 2013 U.S. proposal for a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Maldives. China had "for all practical purposes leased an island in the Maldives, was reclaiming land and building dual use infrastructure, Admiral Singh pointed out, so the agreement dovetails with India's military cooperation with the archipelago nation that includes joint Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) surveillance, installing coastal radars, institutionalised joint exercises and focus on the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

The ex-deputy head of the Integrated Defence Staff drew attention to "far too much alarming Chinese activity in Bangladesh, including the sale of two Chittagong based submarines and the strings attached."

China, Admiral Singh concluded, "will not have an easy ride in the Indian Ocean" despite its numeric naval advantage over the Indian Navy. "We do require numbers but because of our peninsular structure, the advantage of geography, unsustainably long Chinese supply and logistical distances, the strategic assets of the Lakshadweep and Andaman & Nicobar Islands, radars in the Maldives and Seychelles and Beijing's Achilles heel in the Malacca Strait, he says, India has the edge."

 

[Nilgiri]

China miscalculated India resolve, needs exit strategy now, says former Ladakh corps commander

Former 14 Corps commander Lt Gen PJS Pannu (retd) told ThePrint that India is now in a much better strategic position, than when tensions began, on both banks of the Pangong Tso.

theprint.in

China miscalculated India resolve, needs exit strategy now, says former Ladakh corps commander

Former 14 Corps commander Lt Gen PJS Pannu (retd) told ThePrint that India is now in a much better strategic position, than when tensions began, on both banks of the Pangong Tso.

SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 15 September, 2020 1:53 pm IST


New Delhi: China is still showing the 1962 syndrome, has misread India’s resolve to challenge its land-grabbing tactics and is now in need of an exit strategy as a military confrontation is looking very probable, former 14 Corps commander Lt Gen P.J.S. Pannu (retd) has said.

The Leh-headquartered 14 Corps looks after the borders with China and Pakistan, and also guards the Siachen Glacier.

Describing the situation at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh as “not only serious but extremely sensitive”, the retired lieutenant general, who also commanded a division at the McMohan line in the northeast, said that while the standoff is still on, India is in a much better position now in both banks of the Pangong Tso, following the military manoeuvres at the end of August.

“I think the Chinese always felt and I think they sold it to themselves that Indians would be weak and they can be pushed around. Now they have realised that Indians are not a pushover,” Lt Gen Pannu told ThePrint. “They should have made these calculations earlier before they started this operation in the month of May itself. They should have known that India is not a pushover, but I think they are still living with the 1962 syndrome.”

Knowing what they believe in, what they have done on the ground, I think the Chinese are surprised by this kind of a reaction from the Indian Army, he added.

He said that there is no doubt it was a surprise when the Chinese came in large numbers while the Indian Army stuck to existing protocols to defuse the situation.

“Indians realised that despite five rounds of Corps commander-level talks, China was not relenting and showed no interest in moving back,” he said, adding that when Chinese movement to grab more territory was noticed in the southern banks of the Pangong Tso, the Indian Army carried out a preemptive operation.


“They (Indian Army) have occupied most significant and dominating heights along the Spanggur Gap, leaving India at a much more advantageous position,” Pannu said. “Today, India is at a dominating position if spoken in the realm of bargaining. Should push come to shove or military confrontation take place, India would be in a much better position. There has been a paradigm shift from the time it started and now.”

Asked if India has upped its game, the former 14 Corps Commander said the game is still in play and one cannot draw a line on the score when the game is still on.

“However, currently in the running score, India is in a much better position whether you talk about the north or southern banks of Pangong Tso,” he said.

Ball in China’s court to find exit strategy
Lt Gen Pannu said the ball is in China’s court to disengage. “When I say the ball is in China’s court, it means that they are the ones who initiated the aggression and hence it is their move to disengage,” he added.

He said India’s quid pro quo, known in military circles as QPQ, under which it has occupied certain territory (southern bank), is making China “absolutely uncomfortable” and they are surprised about it.

“But still the Chinese will have to play ball … China will have to come out with an exit strategy… It should be China which should pick up the call and initiate a dialogue,” he said talking about leadership level parleys.

“If both do not back off, either you are headed into a standoff which is going to be a longish standoff or you are going to fight a war … If they (China) end up fighting a war, it goes contrary to their own strategy of winning a war without fighting,” he said.

Asked why the Chinese did what they did, he said they miscalculated everything.

The former Army officer added that Xi Jingping and his advisors felt that the whole world is already suffering from the weight of Covid and hence it is the time to push around.

“They have made a calculation to make Xi the leader in the world. Xi is obsessed about himself and his power. They clearly need to work on an exit strategy. I hope better sense will prevail and they will come with a practical strategy,” he said.

Lt Gen Pannu added that the whole world needs to rally around and “catch this bully from all sides and do not allow this bully to destroy the world”.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305881768147349504

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305925718325436416

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[Nilgiri]

Modi govt's infra push along China border — 2 new roads, alternate route to Daulat Beg Oldie

New roads, expected to aid faster military movement, are over and above the 73 India-China Border Roads already planned. Alternate road to DBO through Sasser La remains top priority.

theprint.in

New Delhi: The Narendra Modi government is planning to expand the motorable network along the India-China border by building two news roads — one connecting Pooh in Himachal Pradesh to Chumar in Ladakh, and the other linking Harsil in Uttarakhand to Karcham in Himachal Pradesh.

It has also stepped up work on an alternate road being built to Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), where India’s highest airstrip is located, in eastern Ladakh.

The moves come amid the four-month-long stand-off between Indian and Chinese troops at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Eastern Ladakh.

The Border Roads Organisation (BRO), under the Ministry of Defence, will be constructing all three roads.

The two new roads are not part of the 73 India-China Border Roads (ICBRs) planned for brisk movement of troops and weapons — a project already under way.

Government sources told ThePrint that both roads will be around 150-km long, and that construction would be a tedious task given that it would involve cutting through multiple passes.

The roads are expected to cost around Rs 2,500 to Rs 3,000 crore each.


Stepping up border mobility

It is understood that once constructed, the roads will turn out to be major infrastructural assets along the India-China border. They will provide additional flexibility to the deployment of troops along the LAC and also allow a faster switching of their locations.

At present, it takes nearly 20 hours by road to traverse the 720-km long distance between Pooh and Chumar. Harsil and Karcham are separated by nearly 450 km, a distance that takes over 16 hours to cover.

Pooh is a strategically important town located just 18 km by road from the LAC, while a key military post lies at Chumar along the LAC, south east of Pangong Tso.

A road between these important locations would allow easier switching of troops between Ladakh and Himachal Pradesh and greater domination of the LAC in this area.

Harsil and Karcham are about 52 and 26 km, respectively, from the border with China.

‘Focus on faster construction of alternate road to DBO’
A second senior government official told ThePrint that the faster construction of the alternate route to DBO remains the government’s top priority.

This alternate road in Eastern Ladakh will start from Sassoma along the Nubra river to the vital locations of Sasser La and Gapshan before joining the existing route to DBO. It will be in depth and away from immediate domination of the Chinese. Sassoma is nearly 90 km from DBO.

Sasser La is situated at a height of nearly 18,000 ft — even higher than the Khardung La pass — while Gapshan is located in a valley that subsequently joins the existing DS-DBO road.

The existing Durbuk-Shyok-DBO road — which runs literally along the LAC — is 255-km long and is currently the only road to reach DBO. It has 47 bridges on it.

The official said this alternate road would increase road space and permit more vehicles to ply on a regular basis, and hasten military movements.

“Part of this alternate road is already complete. Sassoma to part of Sasser La has already been blacktopped and is a motorable road. Sasser La onwards is a mud track which is being planned to be blacktopped,” the official added.

A third senior government official told ThePrint that this alternate road will be of huge strategic importance especially in the wake of Chinese threat at the LAC.

“In case there is an attack on the vital logistics supply route to DBO (the existing road), this route will be away from the direct enemy line of sight and delay detection of troops and logistics movement,” the official said.

Also read: Army to add bite to LAC defence, is training native Ladakhi dogs for operational roles

Multiple road networks across eastern Ladakh, Northeast
The BRO has been constructing multiple road networks and strengthening the existing road infrastructure connecting the forward locations of Pangong Tso and others through eastern Ladakh.

While there were reports that it is the building of specific roads in eastern Ladakh that peeved the Chinese leading to the current standoff, government sources said fresh construction and strengthening of existing infrastructure such as roads and bridges have been taking place for quite some time.

Simultaneously, a fourth of the BRO’s 32,000-strong staff is in Arunachal Pradesh to strengthen the road infrastructure there, which will not only help the civil population, but also in moving the military at a faster pace.

While the BRO earlier had been questioned repeatedly over the inordinate delays in the construction of the identified border roads, government officials said the pace has increased substantially in the last few years.

The BRO built close to 10 bridges last year on the roads in eastern Ladakh alone.

Under the India-China Border Roads (ICBR) programme conceptualised in the late 1990s by the China Study Group — and subsequently cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security for construction in 1999 — a total of 73 roads measuring 4,643 km had to be constructed along the China border.

Of them, 61 such roads of strategic importance were to be constructed by the BRO and 12 were to be built by the Central Works Public Department.

According to data available with ThePrint, of the 61 roads — spread across Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim — BRO has reportedly completed 40 roads and 12 more roads will be completed by March 2021.

The BRO’s budget was nearly stagnant at Rs 4,000 crore between 2009 and 2015, before jumping to Rs 5,400 crore in 2017-18. It has now reached Rs 11,000 crore for the 2020-21 fiscal.

 

[Paro]

Apparently both sides shot at each other couple of times.

 

[Nilgiri]

Apparently both sides shot at each other couple of times.

 

[Nilgiri]

 

[YourTurkishMaster]

With the COVID19 virus China already declared war to all nations in the world. I wonder why the world does not react by banning all chinese transactions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Modi govt's infra push along China border — 2 new roads, alternate route to Daulat Beg Oldie

New roads, expected to aid faster military movement, are over and above the 73 India-China Border Roads already planned. Alternate road to DBO through Sasser La remains top priority.

theprint.in

New Delhi: The Narendra Modi government is planning to expand the motorable network along the India-China border by building two news roads — one connecting Pooh in Himachal Pradesh to Chumar in Ladakh, and the other linking Harsil in Uttarakhand to Karcham in Himachal Pradesh.

It has also stepped up work on an alternate road being built to Daulat Beg Oldie (DBO), where India’s highest airstrip is located, in eastern Ladakh.

The moves come amid the four-month-long stand-off between Indian and Chinese troops at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in Eastern Ladakh.

The Border Roads Organisation (BRO), under the Ministry of Defence, will be constructing all three roads.

The two new roads are not part of the 73 India-China Border Roads (ICBRs) planned for brisk movement of troops and weapons — a project already under way.

Government sources told ThePrint that both roads will be around 150-km long, and that construction would be a tedious task given that it would involve cutting through multiple passes.

The roads are expected to cost around Rs 2,500 to Rs 3,000 crore each.


Stepping up border mobility

It is understood that once constructed, the roads will turn out to be major infrastructural assets along the India-China border. They will provide additional flexibility to the deployment of troops along the LAC and also allow a faster switching of their locations.

At present, it takes nearly 20 hours by road to traverse the 720-km long distance between Pooh and Chumar. Harsil and Karcham are separated by nearly 450 km, a distance that takes over 16 hours to cover.

Pooh is a strategically important town located just 18 km by road from the LAC, while a key military post lies at Chumar along the LAC, south east of Pangong Tso.

A road between these important locations would allow easier switching of troops between Ladakh and Himachal Pradesh and greater domination of the LAC in this area.

Harsil and Karcham are about 52 and 26 km, respectively, from the border with China.

View attachment 1393

‘Focus on faster construction of alternate road to DBO’
A second senior government official told ThePrint that the faster construction of the alternate route to DBO remains the government’s top priority.

This alternate road in Eastern Ladakh will start from Sassoma along the Nubra river to the vital locations of Sasser La and Gapshan before joining the existing route to DBO. It will be in depth and away from immediate domination of the Chinese. Sassoma is nearly 90 km from DBO.

Sasser La is situated at a height of nearly 18,000 ft — even higher than the Khardung La pass — while Gapshan is located in a valley that subsequently joins the existing DS-DBO road.

The existing Durbuk-Shyok-DBO road — which runs literally along the LAC — is 255-km long and is currently the only road to reach DBO. It has 47 bridges on it.

The official said this alternate road would increase road space and permit more vehicles to ply on a regular basis, and hasten military movements.

“Part of this alternate road is already complete. Sassoma to part of Sasser La has already been blacktopped and is a motorable road. Sasser La onwards is a mud track which is being planned to be blacktopped,” the official added.

A third senior government official told ThePrint that this alternate road will be of huge strategic importance especially in the wake of Chinese threat at the LAC.

“In case there is an attack on the vital logistics supply route to DBO (the existing road), this route will be away from the direct enemy line of sight and delay detection of troops and logistics movement,” the official said.

Also read: Army to add bite to LAC defence, is training native Ladakhi dogs for operational roles

Multiple road networks across eastern Ladakh, Northeast
The BRO has been constructing multiple road networks and strengthening the existing road infrastructure connecting the forward locations of Pangong Tso and others through eastern Ladakh.

While there were reports that it is the building of specific roads in eastern Ladakh that peeved the Chinese leading to the current standoff, government sources said fresh construction and strengthening of existing infrastructure such as roads and bridges have been taking place for quite some time.

Simultaneously, a fourth of the BRO’s 32,000-strong staff is in Arunachal Pradesh to strengthen the road infrastructure there, which will not only help the civil population, but also in moving the military at a faster pace.

While the BRO earlier had been questioned repeatedly over the inordinate delays in the construction of the identified border roads, government officials said the pace has increased substantially in the last few years.

The BRO built close to 10 bridges last year on the roads in eastern Ladakh alone.

Under the India-China Border Roads (ICBR) programme conceptualised in the late 1990s by the China Study Group — and subsequently cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security for construction in 1999 — a total of 73 roads measuring 4,643 km had to be constructed along the China border.

Of them, 61 such roads of strategic importance were to be constructed by the BRO and 12 were to be built by the Central Works Public Department.

According to data available with ThePrint, of the 61 roads — spread across Jammu & Kashmir, Ladakh, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Arunachal Pradesh and Sikkim — BRO has reportedly completed 40 roads and 12 more roads will be completed by March 2021.

The BRO’s budget was nearly stagnant at Rs 4,000 crore between 2009 and 2015, before jumping to Rs 5,400 crore in 2017-18. It has now reached Rs 11,000 crore for the 2020-21 fiscal.

During a recent exercise at estimating the requirements for defending the LAC, in terms of static defence, and in terms of dynamic defensive-offensive strategic options, the greatest difficulties were in the following areas:

• Lack of road connection between DBO and Leh - addressed by the DSDBO road that is so much the centre of the headlines today;
• Lack of road connection between Demchok and Pooh; to traverse the intervening distance is a journey of several days. (It was a mistake not to connect Harsil and Pooh, however)
• Lack of close-proximity roads between Harsil and Bareilly;
• Lack of Indian military formations between New Delhi and the Manas Sarovar region (straight line distance between Manas Sarovar and New Delhi is 200 kms, a fraction of the distance between New Delhi and Ahmedabad);
• Lack of Indian military formations throughout the entire span of the Nepal-India border;
• Lack of infrastructure in Assam, to support the build-up in Arunachal Pradesh.

Other than in east Ladakh and in Arunachal Pradesh, the state of our border with the PRC's military occupation zone, Tibet, is in very bad condition. That is, in terms of doctrine, formations and capability, not to mention even any awareness of the issues involved.

In this connection, it may be borne in mind that at the time of the Anglo-Nepalese War, that led to the induction of Gorkha soldiers into the British ORBAT in the 1840s, the Gorkha Kingdom had paid tribute to China. It's subservience to China today is nothing new. At that time, the Qing Dynasty had its own internal problems; it was the eve of the western powers' colonial intervention into China in 1899, and they had very little energy to spare for the remote location of Xijang (Tibet). However, their Amban, one of two delegates to the Tibetan government in Lhasa, and a number of Chinese troops did join hands with the Tibetan forces to defeat and kill the Dogra general, Zorawar Singh, and later enter into a formal treaty with the Dogra kingdom in the Treaty of Chushul.

It is eerie how events then seem to have foreshadowed events today.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1305555465938432001

My condolences to her, may her son be in eternal peace now.

 

[Nilgiri]

A battle on China's hands - The Statesman

The Indian army refuted Chinese claims, stating, “In the instant case, it was China's PLA troops who were attempting to close-in with one of our forward positions along the LAC and when dissuaded by own troops, PLA troops fired a few rounds in the air in an attempt to intimidate own troops.”

www.thestatesman.com

 

[The Dutchman]

A battle on China's hands - The Statesman

The Indian army refuted Chinese claims, stating, “In the instant case, it was China's PLA troops who were attempting to close-in with one of our forward positions along the LAC and when dissuaded by own troops, PLA troops fired a few rounds in the air in an attempt to intimidate own troops.”

www.thestatesman.com

What is the situation currently?

 

[Nilgiri]

What is the situation currently?

India "occupies" several peaks and ridgelines in the area that overlook certain points to give a better strategic situation...this was accomplished by the recent operation done in late august and continued logistics regarding it to date.

Both sides have force level of about 50,000 each (at the various active + rotation + reserve levels in the area) and this could increase to say even 100,000 each, though winter approaching will likely reduce the window (this year) for any sustained conflict that might happen....so we might see continuation of status quo thats there right now (both sides eyeing and sizing each other up and prodding at most).

If its a respite this year 2021 spring onwards will be significant to watch.

 

[crixus]

Do we think of anything will change in Defence manufacturing after this India China standoff

 

[Nilgiri]

Do we think of anything will change in Defence manufacturing after this India China standoff

Welcome to forum buddy. There will be more likely impetus/pressure from PMO and noted voices in the elite coterie involved here....but babudom has inertia of its own there. I am keeping tabs on the OFB strike (both the cause and effect side and what the resolution will be in end) for example as any keen watcher (of on ground change in defence sector) likely should....as it will be finger to the wind on what might happen or not happen for next chunk of years.

 

[Nilgiri]

To give readers an idea of how the news/analysis is permeating in more vanilla global media overall:

 

[crixus]

After this Chinese conflict, this now matters of survival, like ISRO ..DRDO and OFB board should come directly under PMO.
Really want the India Industry to pull their socks and offer some decent defense products. I am not sure if UAE can have carcal who is stopping, Indian industry to hire European or America small arms designers to develop some decent small arms

Welcome to forum buddy. There will be more likely impetus/pressure from PMO and noted voices in the elite coterie involved here....but babudom has inertia of its own there. I am keeping tabs on the OFB strike (both the cause and effect side and what the resolution will be in end) for example as any keen watcher (of on ground change in defence sector) likely should....as it will be finger to the wind on what might happen or not happen for next chunk of years.

 

[kaykay]

With the COVID19 virus China already declared war to all nations in the world. I wonder why the world does not react by banning all chinese transactions.

What is the situation currently?

Tense. Both sides are firm on their positions and keep building and stocking. About 50k+ soldiers deployed on both sides in a mirror deployment fashion.

 

[Maximilian Veers]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306473073856532480

Looks like things might get hot when winter comes.