Its not directly on order but as they offered a tank based on K-9 Chasis and L&T has proved that they can absorb the technology , assemble a product and keep on increasing the percentage of the components developed by them . If the forces dont want a tank based on K-9 chasis then K-21 is the best available option . The only major obstacle in the main gun of K-21
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
and L&T will own the IP i assume!!
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
What exactly is the Chandigarh lobby?
Indian Army’s Chandigarh Lobby – The Enemy within our own Defense Forces
On December 8, 2021, India witnessed a massive setback when an Indian Air Force Mi-17 V5 helicopter carrying our CDS General, and 13 others had a tragic crash that killed 13 persons on board. The
trunicle.com
Dont trust the article but you can easily connect the dotes ....
Rajendra Chola
Committed member
- Messages
- 252
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Idrw links should be banned. It's one of the most untrustworthy websites ever. They even take comment from Defence forum and post it as sources.
Its not about the reliability of idrw , the only point is treatment of a imported product and a home grown product by armed forces . They have inducted m777 , K-9 but are literally vouching for Athos at the cost of home grown gun . It may not be a perfect product but there is always a scope of improvements .
Kalyani has a lot of guns to offer why no product was ordered by Indian armed forces yet ? Everyone knows how Parikkar shoved Tejast down the throat of IAF , they are OK to fly vintage mig-21 but have problems with Tejas , which is a mediocre product at best but will give a path for decent future products
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
While most of IDRW articles are crap, I'd definitely agree with this and it's important the public and govt acknowledge these issues
IA killed Arjun MBT project by repeatedly changing specs, expected DRDO to deliver results by setting by unrealisting goals and deadlines while eventually blaming DRDO on the poor outcome
If an initial design is for 65+ tons and outta nowhere you expect the developmental org to reduce it to 45-50 tons, the only option is scrapping the project and developing a new one altogether from scratch. This is what IA did
Infact, there were no design flaws in the ATAGS or Dhanush but there was once a barrel burst due to faulty OFB ammo which led IA halting the trails altogether and branding Dhanush & ATAGS as unfeasible. If that's the case, IA should also cancel the M777 deal since one gun exploded recently and the probe found the cause to be faulty ammo
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...osion-probe/articleshow/60815115.cms?from=mdr
This is also similar to Israeli Spike-ATGM deal which has been cancelled and re-issued multiple times since DRDO's MP-ATGM is offering the same product with similar specs, lower cost etc but they don't come with kickbacks while Israel is offering IA's top brass with lucrative kickbacks/incentives and hot Israeli chicks which our horny fcktards couldn't resist
- Messages
- 9,819
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Merged with artillery archive.
@crixus start new threads only if you got official news story link etc.
Anything else keep it in an existing archive.
That was not for artillery specific , its just to highlight how they murder a decent project and promoting some foreign maal
- Messages
- 9,819
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Honestly too long and boring subject to talk about indian defence bureaucracy....not my cup of tea to get into or analyse as its a irrational psychological issue driving lot of things there in the end.
I very much welcome Parrikar, Gadkari et al...people of mindframe to actually change something around them...rather than occupy time and space with bare minimum or worse.
But they are somewhat flashes in the pan...we just luck out on them.....
Rest is mostly long sludge of inertia from socialist-statism baked into the decision making and basic attitude of priorities.
That whole mindframe that only bureaucrats have the highest national interest at heart and are also supremely competent on what factories and labour organisation involves etc etc...
i.e that only Indian govt should make these things and when it comes up short, clearly "the best" India has... has failed (QED, no need to try anything else)....so buy something expensive from a colonial power....since the govt people fathers and grandfathers impressed upon them the colonial times psyche and resulting inferiority complex.
When this is case, of course all kind of vultures will circle and all kind of rats and moles will undermine....however few they may be....all it takes is one insect to ruin whole lot of grain.
So maybe there will be some change by generation change coming into bureaucracy so a critical mass is there of decent to good (reasonably competent and patriotic)....but that will take a long time and India suffers while that churns out.
=======================================================================================
As for this artillery one specifically, there is specific clique pronouncing doom and gloom (ever since shukla seeded this w.r.t ATHOS).
It is their opinion in the end, I think army is still quite favourable to ATAGS especially....once the issues that cropped up during field test are corrected.
Pity dhanush will be OFB-built, so I don't hold any great hope for that one...
But ATAGS has still good shot in orders and production of worth, lets see. Artillery has made no-import list after all.
That will combine with it being a somewhat straight forward design component diversity wise ...(unlike a tank or aircraft)
But then again we have had INSAS debacle on something that should be straighforward "gun"...
But anyway right now it's different to Arjun case....there is at least blockages+constrictions today to "time fill paper fill and then easy import street" (and whichever lobby)....the exceptions need to be proven more rigorously now.
i.e at least import lobby babus have to use up more time and resource and spread more thin than before, lowering their success rate overall....its a start.
This kind of internal battle in south block simply did not occur before to begin with.
Somehow (even in that earlier time period), nukes, missiles, radars and such were important enough to surface and setup fairly well past this debacle of a system.
At least that was able to manifest....but been slow learning + application to things past those.
IMO in hindsight, India should have never went for Arjun and simply made more T-72/90 licensed production (and done RnD on T-72/90 improvements) and focused its RnD in that time in getting the bofors stuff converted to indigenous gun on a war footing.
Same thing with INSAS, should have never been done, just license produce FNC or something reliable+modern in bulk and work on getting its upgrades + accessories good over time.
i.e Give as little scope to bureaucrats and OFB shenanigans as possible.
Stretching this out and trying to do all kinds of projects at once, inventing wheel each time with the scarce competent human resources available.... with state of defence bureaucracy as it is, has cost India immensely.
Just like this larger approach has costed Indian economy as whole too.
- Messages
- 9,819
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
We can take the discussion further (that is inevitable), but just keep new threads = official news links only as far as possible....and for anything else as best you can in existing ones and tag others for discussion etc.
L&T ready to partner with Hanwha Defense on light tank offer to India
L&T will likely offer the K21-105 light tank to the Indian Army if it partners with Hanwha Defense. (Hanwha Defense)
India's Larsen & Toubro (L&T) has said it is prepared to produce light tanks with South Korea's Hanwha Defense for the Indian Army.
An L&T spokesperson told Janes on 7 February that the company plans to partner with Hanwha Defense on manufacturing light tanks for the Indian Army. The two companies have already partnered to produce the K9 Vajra-T self-propelled howitzer (SPH), a variant of the K9 Thunder SPH, for the Indian Army
However, the spokesperson added that the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has only released the request for information (RFI) for the light tanks and not the tender. The joint production of light tanks is uncertain at this stage since the tender's categorisation will decide what direction the programme will take, the spokesperson added. This categorisation will determine whether and to what degree a foreign vendor will be involved in manufacturing the light tanks.
“Given this situation, I believe it is far too early for any global player to offer their product to India,” said the L&T spokesperson.
A spokesperson from Hanwha Defense told Janes on 13 January that the South Korean company is willing to jointly produce the K21-105 light tank with L&T for the Indian Army. This arrangement would be similar to the programme to build the K9 Vajra-T SPH.
“Hanwha Defense will discuss with its Indian partner the level of technology as required under the Make in India policy,” the Hanwha Defense spokesperson told Janes.
L&T ready to partner with Hanwha Defense on light tank offer to India
India's Larsen & Toubro (L&T) has said it is prepared to produce light tanks with South Korea's Hanwha Defense for the Indian Army.
www.janes.com
- Messages
- 1,111
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
It would be interesting to read @crixus and @Zapper on the subject of the Indian Army's artillery issues. For example,
- what is the order of battle that the Western Command and the Southern Command, and, yes, the Northern Command have in mind to face Pakistan?
- What is it for China's PLA GF and the PLAAF?
- What role will artillery play in this?
- How does doctrine determine the role and extent of artillery support, and what will that artillery asset base support?
- Who will make the ammunition for all these, now that the OFB is history?
- Where is the Indian Army on Strike Corps and Holding Corps currently, and how far will these purchases of shiny new items be useful without mechanisation of the infantry, and including effective APCs, and IFVs and reconnaissance vehicles?
- Have any efforts at integration of mechanised infantry, armour, artillery and rotary wing close air support been tested?
- How will these measures differ according to terrain?
- Finally, how will the same exercise be conducted on what might be termed loosely, for lack of anything better, the Northern Front?
Wow they are testing their own developed guns ... It seems they will find a customer outside India before the testing by forces completes LoL
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reactions
- Nation of residence
-
- Nation of origin
-
Let's hope they're successfully able to sell these systems to some foreign country which'll make IA realize the potential and eventually procure these...similar to what happened in Tonbo and MKU cases
Given the quality of these products, I see no reason for IA to look abroad. Even M777 had a barrel burst in India and the cause was found to be faulty ammo. ATAGS also had a barrel burst which was also due to faulty ammo after investigation making IA halt the entire trails...
This shows how the import lobby is at work screwing up indigenous developments
