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Nilgiri

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I always wondered about what happens to At4 once fired.

Do they just throw it on the ground or they keep it?

I know its disposable still a question I ask myself.

They would try retain it (in logistics chain) for later disposal if possible in the situation, since that is less evidence you leave behind for enemy to know your maneuvering etc later in their potential recon.

But if not possible logistically and its very "hot" exchange etc, then its just thrown away on the spot since its done its job and not reusable.
 

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Nilgiri

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There is nothing made in India about this except for CKD kits screwed together at PLR facility. I doubt if any of the raw material is procured from India nor the machining aspect

Indian armed forces should stop giving orders to these so called "JV" firms and should instead opt for Indian firms which own the IP

If south block has not and does not give any substantial order to private sector that has gone the IP route, then private sector simply wont be attracted to commiting there.

There need to be some proven illustrated incentive to invest when the margins are small and risks are large....by actual proven reward given to those that did more on the IP front.

Instead what has south block done in small arms so far on this when bulk ordering? (eg. SSS vs AK) You tell me.

So I dont blame companies operating in this format, given where the actual problem lies and the scope south block has pushed here and given just some words and tokenism past that and always write the check differently when it comes to something that matters.
 

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They would try retain it (in logistics chain) for later disposal if possible in the situation, since that is less evidence you leave behind for enemy to know your maneuvering etc later in their potential recon.

But if not possible logistically and its very "hot" exchange etc, then its just thrown away on the spot since its done its job and not reusable.

Understood wouldnt it better if the At4 actually gets reused?

Where you reload and load another missile on it like the carl gustaf and the rpg.
 

Nilgiri

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Understood wouldnt it better if the At4 actually gets reused?

Where you reload and load another missile on it like the carl gustaf and the rpg.

It depends on the tactical situations that are foreseen in likeliest conflict for that sector's unit.

Carl gustav has much larger logistical train because of its multiple fire capability (both no. of shots and also diversity of munitions).

So it gets a bit more complicated to say have a guy dedicated to carl gustav in a platoon, and have him well trained on it and then what are the complexities involved in his decision making (in real time conflict that happens) in either provisioning with him (or having him select the most appropriate one for whats in front of him) with say round C among round types A - Z etc....and then maybe change that for next encounter and so on.

Whereas AT4 is single shot, and lot of engagements are more ideally met for it and you just provide a standard round for it across that sector etc. ...and you dont have a train up a guy extensively in its dedicated use (pretty much any grunt can be trained on it basically quickly etc and you just issue as much as you want to the unit in more quicker decision format).

I believe it (AT4) turns out overall better than Carl Gustav when you expect many more stationary hard targets in front of you etc given this....whereas Carl Gustav is great if you foresee more diverse kind of targets (stationary, mobile and whatever armour levels involved) since then its round diversity and re-firing use are brought to bear more effectively.

So some mix of both is probably ideal for large military depending on what it wargames and trains on regarding sectors it has versus opponents.
 

Zapper

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If south block has not and does not give any substantial order to private sector that has gone the IP route, then private sector simply wont be attracted to commiting there.

There need to be some proven illustrated incentive to invest when the margins are small and risks are large....by actual proven reward given to those that did more on the IP front.

Instead what has south block done in small arms so far on this when bulk ordering? (eg. SSS vs AK) You tell me.

So I dont blame companies operating in this format, given where the actual problem lies and the scope south block has pushed here and given just some words and tokenism past that and always write the check differently when it comes to something that matters.
I don't think this has anything to do with MoD. Unless the order is worth a few billion dollars, MoD doesn't necessarily get involved since it doesn't come with enough PR for the govt to take credit. For small arms orders, the forces are free to order whatever they want

There is a reason why the CAR-816 deal has been cancelled and reissued multiple times with no clear line of sight even for the recently issued tender. Same goes for the 600k+ AK-203s or sniper rifle requirements while SF units are ordering piece meal with no standardization. This is more to do with IA/IAF/IN's top brass lust for kickbacks
 

Nilgiri

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I don't think this has anything to do with MoD. Unless the order is worth a few billion dollars, MoD doesn't necessarily get involved since it doesn't come with enough PR for the govt to take credit. For small arms orders, the forces are free to order whatever they want

There is a reason why the CAR-816 deal has been cancelled and reissued multiple times with no clear line of sight even for the recently issued tender. Same goes for the 600k+ AK-203s or sniper rifle requirements while SF units are ordering piece meal with no standardization. This is more to do with IA/IAF/IN's top brass lust for kickbacks

If MoD thinks what is happening is enough of an issue that needs fixing, it will fix it...whatever the level involved here in the end. It certainly has the power to impose so, its a conscious decision in the end w.r.t results of , price signalling, production and value addition that private sector responds to and takes up.

Private firms simply operate in the scope alloted to them by decision making and the proven incentive model shown by military. There is no large civilian market in India to feed them here, so its very much dog wags tail here....and dog's decision in end how that is done.
 
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