India Indian Jet Engine and Gas Turbine Archive

SavageKing456

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Ya ,but I meant weight issues too ,hope they don't make it too heavy , if weight is controlled we might see it going into Ghatak ,and some tejas
Weight has been reduced already
Screenshot (796).png
 

Nilgiri

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Guys please refrain from sharing links to other forums directly.....(most forums have same policy)

It is better to post the salient points and give credit to the post author here....without posting the forum link itself etc.

(I have edited the post to the way it should be)...
 
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Nilgiri

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Triveni Engineering & Industries yesterday announced signing of a 10-year business agreement with GEAE Technology USA to locally manufacture the LM2500 gas turbine base and enclosure.

Under the agreement, GEAE Technology USA has licensed Triveni to locally manufacture the LM2500 gas turbine's base frame, acoustic enclosure, and lubricating oil skid and supply other source-controlled accessories that go into the LM 2500 gas turbine enclosure assembly.


The LM2500 is the chosen propulsion gas turbine by the Indian Navy for many of its surface combatant vessels. The LM2500 gas turbine, with power ranging from 25 MW to 35 MW, are best in class naval propulsion gas turbines and are in service with over 40 navies globally.

Tarun Sawhney, vice chairman & managing director, Triveni Engineering & Industries, said: "Triveni Group has a long history of over three decades with indigenous design and development of engineered rotary products for various naval platforms and has a long-term vision of supporting the Indian Navy in self-reliance. Currently, Triveni is working towards providing critical technology and engineered solutions on multiple fronts to Indian Navy and Indian Defence industry.

This agreement is another major step towards indigenisation of LM 2500 gas turbine and accessories in line with the 'Make in India' policy of the Government of India. We believe this arrangement is a major step in bringing the high-end technology indigenously to the Indian Defence as part of a long-term plan, which we at Triveni are well poised to contribute further through a strong portfolio of current and upcoming products."

Triveni Engineering & Industries is a market leader of engineered-to-order turbo high-speed gears & gearboxes, an indigenous approved supplier of engineered products & systems apart from approved supplier of indigenous marine gearboxes for the Indian Navy and Coast Guard shipbuilding projects.

The company's consolidated net profit rose 196.57% to Rs 92.47 crore in the quarter ended September 2021 as against Rs 31.18 crore during the previous quarter ended September 2020. Sales declined 8.55% YoY to Rs 1068.46 crore in Q2 FY22.

The scrip slumped 5.81% to end at Rs 188.15 on the BSE yesterday.
 

Nilgiri

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He believes that Indian defence and aerospace manufacturing market will increase manifold.​


France has agreed to jointly build aircraft engine in collaboration with India, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said on Saturday.
The government, he asserted, was committed to increasing the budget outlay for defence procurement from Indian industry. He believed that the Indian defence and aerospace manufacturing market, which was ₹85,000 crore now, would increase to ₹1 lakh crore in 2022 and ₹5 lakh crore by 2047.
“Yesterday, French Defence Minister agreed to build the engine with us, so far not made in India. A major French company will come to India and make the engine in strategic partnership with an Indian company,” Mr. Singh stated at the 94th Annual General Body Meeting of the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry. However, he did not give details of the proposed engine development.

‘Talks on with Safran’​

A defence official observed that discussions have been on with Safran of France to develop the engine for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) and this was the same engine.

The government recently informed Parliament that it has proposed to develop indigenous engines for powering aircraft such as the LCA variants and the AMCA in association with an International Engine House. The Defence Research and Development Organisation had been in talks with leading engine manufacturers.

On efforts to boost domestic defence industry, he clarified that in this decade, they would increase the items under the Positive list for Indigenisation from current 209 to over 1000. Inviting global companies to invest in the Indian defence and aerospace sectors, he said, “Come Make in India, come make for India, come make for the world.”

Highlighting the initiatives taken to increase the private sector participation and global companies, he remarked, “The Indian defence industry has realised that the opportune time has come for its take-off to higher trajectories. The corporatisation of the OFB is probably the biggest reform in defence production sector since Independence.”

Due to India’s ‘stature’ and its geographical location as well as the kind of security challenges it faces, “we cannot depend on other countries for our defence technologies”, he added.

=====================

If this pans out this will be the ecosystem that will replace GE-404 and GE-414 requirements (in tejas and AMCA etc over time) @Indos @Gessler @Gautam

Kaveri I feel will be used "dry" only for UAV ecosystem and maybe marine over time....and will form basis for what India can take forward and contribute to this proposed French JV.

@AlphaMike @Philip the Arab @Anmdt @Yasar et al.
 

Indos

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He believes that Indian defence and aerospace manufacturing market will increase manifold.​


France has agreed to jointly build aircraft engine in collaboration with India, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh said on Saturday.
The government, he asserted, was committed to increasing the budget outlay for defence procurement from Indian industry. He believed that the Indian defence and aerospace manufacturing market, which was ₹85,000 crore now, would increase to ₹1 lakh crore in 2022 and ₹5 lakh crore by 2047.
“Yesterday, French Defence Minister agreed to build the engine with us, so far not made in India. A major French company will come to India and make the engine in strategic partnership with an Indian company,” Mr. Singh stated at the 94th Annual General Body Meeting of the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry. However, he did not give details of the proposed engine development.

‘Talks on with Safran’​

A defence official observed that discussions have been on with Safran of France to develop the engine for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) and this was the same engine.

The government recently informed Parliament that it has proposed to develop indigenous engines for powering aircraft such as the LCA variants and the AMCA in association with an International Engine House. The Defence Research and Development Organisation had been in talks with leading engine manufacturers.

On efforts to boost domestic defence industry, he clarified that in this decade, they would increase the items under the Positive list for Indigenisation from current 209 to over 1000. Inviting global companies to invest in the Indian defence and aerospace sectors, he said, “Come Make in India, come make for India, come make for the world.”

Highlighting the initiatives taken to increase the private sector participation and global companies, he remarked, “The Indian defence industry has realised that the opportune time has come for its take-off to higher trajectories. The corporatisation of the OFB is probably the biggest reform in defence production sector since Independence.”

Due to India’s ‘stature’ and its geographical location as well as the kind of security challenges it faces, “we cannot depend on other countries for our defence technologies”, he added.

=====================

If this pans out this will be the ecosystem that will replace GE-404 and GE-414 requirements (in tejas and AMCA etc over time) @Indos @Gessler @Gautam

Kaveri I feel will be used "dry" only for UAV ecosystem and maybe marine over time....and will form basis for what India can take forward and contribute to this proposed French JV.

@AlphaMike @Philip the Arab @Anmdt @Yasar et al.

AMCA detail design hasnt been done yet, has it ?

Previously AMCA is designed to have F 414 engine, I think there is different in diameter, length, and weight compared to F 414 engine
 

Nilgiri

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AMCA detail design hasnt been done yet, has it ?

Previously AMCA is designed to have F 414 engine, I think there is different in diameter, length, and weight compared to F 414 engine

Detailed design of mk1 (AMCA) has not finished yet....but it will be set in stone around GE-414 definitely.

This JV engine will be for mk 2 AMCA in future iteration (looking at earlier article):


On the current status of the AMCA, Dr. Deodhare said the configuration had been frozen, preliminary service quality requirements finalised and preliminary design review completed.

“We are moving to critical design review by the middle of next year with the roll-out planned in 2024 and first flight planned in 2025.”

The AMCA will have stealth and non-stealth configuration and will be developed in two phases, AMCA Mk1 with existing GE414 engine and an AMCA Mk2 with an advanced, more powerful engine to be developed later along with a foreign partner, Dr. Deodhare added.



====================================

So I think we can look at it in ecosystem format, there will be (in initial window of intersection) give and take for AMCA mk2 that both influences the scope of the next powerplant and also what the powerplant will broadly influence mk 2 scope etc.

That all depends on what mk2 improvements/iterations from mk1 will involve and also how tejas (at that point in time) will influence the next engine too....since it makes sense to standardise the whole engine as one model for both (i.e just single and dbl engine is the basic difference).

Needs some years in timeline to solidify and realise to get better idea on what design drives what more. I would think the JV engine use adopted in tejas (mk 2 and mkX after i.e single engine one) first so that will in turn shape AMCA mk 2 downstream to it.....since AMCA mk 1 will be produced for quite some time (using F414) first.

Given French strategic collaboration over some years in field of aero-engines (mostly realised turboshaft and some consultancy for kaveri so far) in India....now under broad heading of "SAFRAN India" (that produces lot more for Rafale but also LEAP engine) ....this proposed development at large is along expected lines:




 

SavageKing456

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AMCA detail design hasnt been done yet, has it ?

Previously AMCA is designed to have F 414 engine, I think there is different in diameter, length, and weight compared to F 414 engine
It's in CDR phase which will be completed by early next year with 150000 crore Rs funding approval by CCS to rollout amca by 2024
Few parts have already been manufactured such as wing root,actuators etc.
IMG_20211126_194752.jpg

This is fem of amca
 

Jackdaws

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Excellent. Although underrated thanks to their pathetic Peugeot and Citroen cars, French engineering is almost as good as German as far as pedigree is concerned.
 

Nilgiri

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Nilgiri

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Did India have smaller scale turbofan or jet engine projects before starting Kaveri ?

Not the right thread
But as far as I know
We directly jumped to kaveri.
We did not even have smaller turbofan programs.
Manik(stfe) and hal derivatives came later.

Kaveri was not a fresh slate starting point.

Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s.

The progression was roughly (in 50s - current):

1) Centrifugal and other test beds of the 1950s, GTRE first projects after formation

1960s - 70s:

2) Orpheus and its MRO and parts and lateral network from HAL to GTRE on this

3) Domestically Improved (afterburner) Orpheus with better compressor to handle higher speed regime, not accepted by IAF due to weight

4) Tumansky Turbojet (for Mig 21) and similar process flow to (2) regd this.

5) GTX 37-14U (core) Testbed (and 2nd "B" bypass testbed)

1980s - current:

6) Kabini core and Kaveri project (ongoing) and derivatives/branches from this (HTFE, "Dry" only: Marine, UAV, expendables like Manik)

7) Continued material and process flow absorption by HAL-GTRE ecosystem w.r.t RR-Snecma ecosystem (Adour, Turbomeca, rafale etc) along with local RnD continuation

A small gleam into some of the kaveri precursor era and then project basis:



Section from R Krishnan (80s resume included: BARC metallurgy head, NCML director, GTRE director) specifically:

(Available on google book preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z-MLCwAAQBAJ):

GTREtestbed.jpg


@Gessler @Anmdt @Bilal Khan(Quwa) @crixus @Milspec @Yasar @Rajaraja Chola @Zapper @Jackdaws et al.
 

SavageKing456

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Kaveri was not a fresh slate starting point.

Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s.

The progression was roughly (in 50s - current):

1) Centrifugal and other test beds of the 1950s, GTRE first projects after formation

1960s - 70s:

2) Orpheus and its MRO and parts and lateral network from HAL to GTRE on this

3) Domestically Improved (afterburner) Orpheus with better compressor to handle higher speed regime, not accepted by IAF due to weight

4) Tumansky Turbojet (for Mig 21) and similar process flow to (2) regd this.

5) GTX 37-14U (core) Testbed (and 2nd "B" bypass testbed)

1980s - current:

6) Kabini core and Kaveri project (ongoing) and derivatives/branches from this (HTFE, "Dry" only: Marine, UAV, expendables like Manik)

7) Continued material and process flow absorption by HAL-GTRE ecosystem w.r.t RR-Snecma ecosystem (Adour, Turbomeca, rafale etc) along with local RnD continuation

A small gleam into some of the kaveri precursor era and then project basis:



Section from R Krishnan (80s resume included: BARC metallurgy head, NCML director, GTRE director) specifically:

(Available on google book preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z-MLCwAAQBAJ):

View attachment 37915

@Gessler @Anmdt @Bilal Khan(Quwa) @crixus @Milspec @Yasar @Rajaraja Chola @Zapper @Jackdaws et al.
What I mean is indigenous development,our own program sort of
 

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