India Jet Engines and Gas Turbines

Nilgiri

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What do your Elf eyes see?

Spliced test footage with (more stable) afterburner operation?

There is not all that much to go upon here.... some of this footage might be from 2019-2020 etc and just now released.

2019 was when afterburner tests were first conducted on this engine.
 

Gessler

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If we compare it, TEI is superior. I believe they are almost 30 years busy with the program so people who are talking bad about TEI should think twice what kind tecnology we are dealing with.

HTFE-25 program is less than 10 years old. You are thinking of Kaveri.

ther was a engine program for ther fighter and still are they working on that. Maybe it was that Kaveri, it was 5 years ago when i read about ther engine program.

Yes you're thinking of Kaveri aka GTX-35VS. It's a different class of engine compared to HTFE-25 though - it had 52 kN dry thrust and 81 kN with afterburner, its in F404 class of engine, first ground test was conducted in 1996. But ultimately it could only achieve about 76 kN wet but not without the vibration & noise issues getting out of hand, making it unsuitable for operational use. On top of that, they were trying to make it capable of changing the volume of air flow on the fly i.e. variable cycle. They were trying to do too much with too little.

There is a new, non-afterburning variant with about 45-50kN that's currently in testing for future use on drone programs like the Ghatak flying wing. This shouldn't have too many problems as dry thrust was already test flown & certified on the old Kaveri using Gromov Institute Il-76 engine testbed back in 2010:

CyXK6uDXUAAce5V.jpg:large


But there are certain new components on this version to make it more reliable so flight testing will happen again to re-certify I presume. Currently it seems to be in ground tests:

kaveri dry maybe.jpg
 

Rajendra Chola

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Looks like its going to be Aneto-1K based design after all, but modified for our needs just like Shakti was (for high-altitude use etc) and produced here.

Shakti was JV mostly in name and for production reasons. Even though we have the know how for Shakti, our knowledge gain or transfer for Shakti is low. I hope we co dev new engine from scratch.
 

Nilgiri

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Original link, one you posted seems broken:

 

Abheer

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Kaveri was not a fresh slate starting point.

Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s.

The progression was roughly (in 50s - current):

1) Centrifugal and other test beds of the 1950s, GTRE first projects after formation

1960s - 70s:

2) Orpheus and its MRO and parts and lateral network from HAL to GTRE on this

3) Domestically Improved (afterburner) Orpheus with better compressor to handle higher speed regime, not accepted by IAF due to weight

4) Tumansky Turbojet (for Mig 21) and similar process flow to (2) regd this.

5) GTX 37-14U (core) Testbed (and 2nd "B" bypass testbed)

1980s - current:

6) Kabini core and Kaveri project (ongoing) and derivatives/branches from this (HTFE, "Dry" only: Marine, UAV, expendables like Manik)

7) Continued material and process flow absorption by HAL-GTRE ecosystem w.r.t RR-Snecma ecosystem (Adour, Turbomeca, rafale etc) along with local RnD continuation

A small gleam into some of the kaveri precursor era and then project basis:



Section from R Krishnan (80s resume included: BARC metallurgy head, NCML director, GTRE director) specifically:

(Available on google book preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z-MLCwAAQBAJ):

View attachment 37915

@Gessler @Anmdt @Bilal Khan(Quwa) @crixus @Milspec @Yasar @Rajaraja Chola @Zapper @Jackdaws et al.
S
Kaveri was not a fresh slate starting point.

Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s.

The progression was roughly (in 50s - current):

1) Centrifugal and other test beds of the 1950s, GTRE first projects after formation

1960s - 70s:

2) Orpheus and its MRO and parts and lateral network from HAL to GTRE on this

3) Domestically Improved (afterburner) Orpheus with better compressor to handle higher speed regime, not accepted by IAF due to weight

4) Tumansky Turbojet (for Mig 21) and similar process flow to (2) regd this.

5) GTX 37-14U (core) Testbed (and 2nd "B" bypass testbed)

1980s - current:

6) Kabini core and Kaveri project (ongoing) and derivatives/branches from this (HTFE, "Dry" only: Marine, UAV, expendables like Manik)

7) Continued material and process flow absorption by HAL-GTRE ecosystem w.r.t RR-Snecma ecosystem (Adour, Turbomeca, rafale etc) along with local RnD continuation

A small gleam into some of the kaveri precursor era and then project basis:



Section from R Krishnan (80s resume included: BARC metallurgy head, NCML director, GTRE director) specifically:

(Available on google book preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z-MLCwAAQBAJ):

View attachment 37915

@Gessler @Anmdt @Bilal Khan(Quwa) @crixus @Milspec @Yasar @Rajaraja Chola @Zapper @Jackdaws et al.

Kaveri was not a fresh slate starting point.

Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s.

The progression was roughly (in 50s - current):

1) Centrifugal and other test beds of the 1950s, GTRE first projects after formation

1960s - 70s:

2) Orpheus and its MRO and parts and lateral network from HAL to GTRE on this

3) Domestically Improved (afterburner) Orpheus with better compressor to handle higher speed regime, not accepted by IAF due to weight

4) Tumansky Turbojet (for Mig 21) and similar process flow to (2) regd this.

5) GTX 37-14U (core) Testbed (and 2nd "B" bypass testbed)

1980s - current:

6) Kabini core and Kaveri project (ongoing) and derivatives/branches from this (HTFE, "Dry" only: Marine, UAV, expendables like Manik)

7) Continued material and process flow absorption by HAL-GTRE ecosystem w.r.t RR-Snecma ecosystem (Adour, Turbomeca, rafale etc) along with local RnD continuation

A small gleam into some of the kaveri precursor era and then project basis:



Section from R Krishnan (80s resume included: BARC metallurgy head, NCML director, GTRE director) specifically:

(Available on google book preview: https://books.google.com/books?id=Z-MLCwAAQBAJ):

View attachment 37915

@Gessler @Anmdt @Bilal Khan(Quwa) @crixus @Milspec @Yasar @Rajaraja Chola @Zapper @Jackdaws et al.
Sir, as you stated that,
"
Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s."

Sir, by this you mean that Orpheus was reverse-engineered for GTX 37-14U or Kaveri ? Or was it simply used for RnD purpose.
And other than that, as you stated that Orpheus was put under extensive RnD, but that means that it was reverse-engineered for RnD, but Orpheus was just allowed for licensed manufacturing. Do u have any source or is it your personal speculation ?
 

Nilgiri

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S



Sir, as you stated that,
"
Arguably Orpheus (license production, MRO and tinkering) provided the greatest impetus to HAL know-how in the cold war.

After Marut winded up early, there was lot of orpheus engines prematurely retired.... HAL put them to extensive RnD efforts as the precursor of Kaveri program shaped up in 70s - 80s."

Sir, by this you mean that Orpheus was reverse-engineered for GTX 37-14U or Kaveri ? Or was it simply used for RnD purpose.
And other than that, as you stated that Orpheus was put under extensive RnD, but that means that it was reverse-engineered for RnD, but Orpheus was just allowed for licensed manufacturing. Do u have any source or is it your personal speculation ?

Orpheus was not "reverse-engineered", it was too weak to power the next gen of aircraft that were already appearing and that India had to stay in touch with. The Marut experience would further solidify this reality.

The GTX 37-14U (India's first aviation axial gas turbine) was at least twice as powerful than the Orpheus (10k lbf dry thrust compared to 5k lbf)

Essentially the Orpheus formed a major part of what was studied and incorporated into GTRE RnD basis at that point in time to take forward with for example the (larger, more powerful) GTX testbeds.

You can peruse more information in following discussions and resources and try additional internet searches (and book finding) of your own as time and interest pertains:

 

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