Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Ravager]

*Carl gustaf / NLAW bundled .

we should try to move on from disposable AT rocket , its actually quite funny , i don't see anypoint for having more than 2-3 personnel for disposable AT rocket like this C90 Instalaza .

View attachment 23705
unless it was reloadable like carl gustaf , then the extra personnel is welcomed as a loader for the recoiless rifle .

Everything has to start from something . Not to mention portability was always positive edging point in combat . Today decent AT missile class were always requires 2/3 operator for their positioning and operating it . Launcher , tripod/standing and the missile it self . Do not fooled by the look of this .


The missile alone was allready a whooping 40 kg while the launcher are 56 kg . Unless we are starting to draft hulk for our army 1 launcher per squad was allready burdened our bois in the field

 

[Umigami]

Everything has to start from something . Not to mention portability was always positive edging point in combat . Today decent AT missile class were always requires 2/3 operator for their positioning and operating it . Launcher , tripod/standing and the missile it self . Do not fooled by the look of this . View attachment 23708 View attachment 23709

The missile alone was allready a whooping 40 kg while the launcher are 56 kg . Unless we are starting to draft hulk for our army 1 launcher per squad was allready burdened our bois in the field

Looks like DefenceHub quite often fail to view attachments files lately.

 

[Gundala]

Around 2-3 MRTT ?

My guess is 1 or 2 at the most

im kinda against gripen offer , while in the brazilian case they've got a experienced and far more sophisticated aerospace industries to support SAAB transfer of knowledge portofolio (Embraer) , im on pessimistic side with PT DI

What he said, many of us shout about ToT but only few know the capability of our industry to absorb the technology. This is when the technology should be directed to credible domestic R&D center rather than the industries it self. As much of the industry willing to absorb the technology, at the end of the day its going to be all about the money, economic scale, production, etc. They wont be willing to invest money on the new technology (in most cases they dont have the budget unless provided by state) and lean more towards assembling things, parts production and whatever things that would create the cash stream.

 

[schuimpjes]

we should try to move on from disposable AT rocket , its actually quite funny , i don't see anypoint for having more than 2-3 personnel for disposable AT rocket like this C90 Instalaza .

Disposable AT Launcher are lighter than reloadable AT Launcher. Basically, the disposable one are just a rocket inside a fiberglass (like) tube.

For example, ISIS were made SPG-9 round disposable launcher for the sake to make more practical and lighter weapon than have to bring the bulky, heavy, semi-stationary (because to heavy to running around with it) SPG-9 running with them in Mosul before. They put the PG-9 inside a non metal tube and made the simple detonating device to detonate the rockets.

Can that disposable AT tube used again? With simple unscientific and unproven view, yes can, just put more round there and put LED light without the glass to make fire + something that can burn in the primer as a detonator. But, dont be that silly.

 

[NEKO]

And where is the link to the source original file

Majalah

https://www.kemhan.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/tmp_6084-WIRA-EDISI-I-KOMPLIT506169075.pdf

 

[R4duga]

Disposable AT Launcher are lighter than reloadable AT Launcher. Basically, the disposable one are just a rocket inside a fiberglass (like) tube.

For example, ISIS were made SPG-9 round disposable launcher for the sake to make more practical and lighter weapon than have to bring the bulky, heavy, semi-stationary (because to heavy to running around with it) SPG-9 running with them in Mosul before. They put the PG-9 inside a non metal tube and made the simple detonating device to detonate the rockets.

Can that disposable AT tube used again? With simple unscientific and unproven view, yes can, just put more round there and put LED light without the glass to make fire + something that can burn in the primer as a detonator. But, dont be that silly.

however the newest variants of carl gustaf , the M4 carl gustaf , is just as light as the disposable AT rocket , they've managed to weight down the launcher from 13-14kg range into merely 6-7kg , but expect they're going to be more expensive .

not only that , they have a wide range munition selection that can be used according to what kind of target they wanted to blow up , even the guided one exist .

 

[schuimpjes]

however the newest variants of carl gustaf , the M4 carl gustaf , is just as light as the disposable AT rocket

Woww.... Disposable AT Launcher became obsolete then if this right wkwk.

 

[Parry Brima]

at the end of the day its going to be all about the money, economic scale, production, etc. They wont be willing to invest money on the new technology (in most cases they dont have the budget unless provided by state)

This. Our biggest problem has always been money. This is the exact reason why we should take it because we're willing to spend $79 bil now (well, at least until 2024 ). How much should we dedicate to this and technically how? Well, that's the stuff that the MoD, MoSOE, MoF, and PT DI have to discuss and decide.

We're always complaining about our military industry capability (or the lack of it) but when the time finally comes we're willing to spend big, we back out.

 

[Ravager]

however the newest variants of carl gustaf , the M4 carl gustaf , is just as light as the disposable AT rocket , they've managed to weight down the launcher from 13-14kg range into merely 6-7kg , but expect they're going to be more expensive .

not only that , they have a wide range munition selection that can be used according to what kind of target they wanted to blow up , even the guided one exist .

When it comes to versatility nothing beat the gustav . But when it come to the capability the question arw starting to pop up ...

Any meaningfull AT munition are coming in double charges . Even that still come in variable result

 

[NEKO]

When it comes to versatility nothing beat the gustav . But when it come to the capability the question arw starting to pop up ..

Gustav = more widespread within infantry.
Something with homing capabilities = small number used by elite unit.

 

[Umigami]

This anti tank discussion is more fitting to army threat, isn't it?

 

[R4duga]

This anti tank discussion is more fitting to army threat, isn't it?

kinda OOT , but it's flexible , we don't know that 1200 carl gustaf prabowo planned for what branch , even something like paskhas got SLT (Senjata lawan tank) such as Airtronic PSRL , those picture i posted with soldier aiming C90 instalaza for instance are yonko paskhas.

 

[Gundala]

This. Our biggest problem has always been money. This is the exact reason why we should take it because we're willing to spend $79 bil now (well, at least until 2024 ). How much should we dedicate to this and technically how? Well, that's the stuff that the MoD, MoSOE, MoF, and PT DI have to discuss and decide.

We're always complaining about our military industry capability (or the lack of it) but when the time finally comes we're willing to spend big, we back out.

Not always been the money. Most of the time we take in more then we can chew.

 

[Umigami]

Indonesia approves USD700 million in foreign loans for aerial tanker buy

The Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MoF) has granted approval for the country to obtain up to USD700 million in foreign loans to procure two aerial tankers for the...

www.janes.com

 

[trishna_amrta]

More hype for the A-330 MRTT

 

[this is crunch]

Indonesia approves USD700 million in foreign loans for aerial tanker buy

The Indonesian Ministry of Finance (MoF) has granted approval for the country to obtain up to USD700 million in foreign loans to procure two aerial tankers for the...

www.janes.com

new airframes kah?

 

[Umigami]

new airframes kah?

Even second hand is alright for me if that mean we can get more.

 

[this is crunch]

Even second hand is alright for me if that mean we can get more.

well i don't mind that too, second hand means cheaper and faster to be delivered to the end-user

 

[Madokafc]

well they are in a way

Come on they are more on Kiasu not everything else

new airframes kah?

Yup it seems obvious

 

[Stuka Dive]

I'm getting ahead of myself here, but it'd be nice if by let's say 2035 we're able to produce double engine (through KF-21) and single engine (through Gripen) by ourselves

edit : typo, I accidentally typed Viper instead of Gripen

There is an alternative for single engine's ToT other than Grippen E: The India's LM F-21 program. If we can bargain to US for ToT, perhaps we can ask this F-21 program which apparently been abandoned by India. The F-21 is the F-16 accustomed to India's requirements for single engine fighter. It has basic design from F-16. Thus we have been very familiar with these F-16's technology, MRO, and spare parts. And to learn the design engineering and manufacturing from the platform that we've been known very well is more realistic for a "start-up" country like us. The commonality and interchangeability with existing F-16 technology and spare parts are also supported by worldwide established F-16 ecosystem.

In my opinion, For more than 70 units to be purchased, LM will consider this option