Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[schuimpjes]

Oh, and speaking about EVs - especially since this is a thread about Indonesian Air Force - we're heading for a future where electric passenger airplanes are going to be widely used

Future aircraft jet engine (?). Full electric, just need air and electricity.

Wait, Could Plasma Thrusters Really Replace Jet Engines?

Scientists just demonstrated a promising prototype—with a catch.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Philips]

I have a better proposal for the TNI-AU

1. Sign strategic partnership with Turkey

2. Double the amount of F-16. Get older blocks, upgrade them with Turkish components of the Ozgur project +AESA+Bozdogan/Gokdogan/Gokhan+ a whole assortiment of guided weapons with (partial) license production.

3. Sign agreement to be the first to invest in TF-X with (partial) licence production.

4. Get Aksungur/Akinci/MIUS/TB2/3 also under license plus regional maintenance and service.

5. Get Turkish helicopters T625/T925 and attack helicopters with (partial) license production.

6. A whole lot of surface-attack missiles from ATMACA and SOM to UMTAS and CIRIT.

7. Radars and SAM also under license production.

8. Other systems not related to the air force

Pro's: Truly kickstarting Indonesian defence industry, no limit to weapons production and procurement (consider yourselves lucky if you have on average 2 AIM-120's for every US fighter that you have)

Cons: forking multiple billions of dollars (10B?) over the course of 10+ years. Cancellation of Rafale+F-15EX and in the long run the KF-X.

Indonesia can do it and the Turks would be willing to. The only thing Indonesia is lacking is the will and ambition. I hope that IDEF-21 will convince the Indonesian MoD to go full Turk

 

[schuimpjes]

I have a better proposal for the TNI-AU

1. Sign strategic partnership with Turkey

2. Double the amount of F-16. Get older blocks, upgrade them with Turkish components of the Ozgur project +AESA+Bozdogan/Gokdogan/Gokhan+ a whole assortiment of guided weapons with (partial) license production.

3. Sign agreement to be the first to invest in TF-X with (partial) licence production.

4. Get Aksungur/Akinci/MIUS/TB2/3 also under license plus regional maintenance and service.

5. Get Turkish helicopters T625/T925 and attack helicopters with (partial) license production.

6. A whole lot of air-to-surface missiles from ATMACA and SOM to UMTAS and CIRIT.

7. Radars and SAM also under license production.

8. Other systems not related to the air force

Pro's: Truly kickstarting Indonesian defence industry, no limit to weapons production and procurement (consider yourselves lucky if you have on average 2 AIM-120's for every US fighter that you have)
Cons: forking multiple billions of dollars (10B?) over the course of 10+ years. Cancellation of Rafale+F-15EX and in the long run the KF-X.

Indonesia can do it and the Turks would be willing to. The only thing Indonesia is lacking is the will and ambition. I hope that IDEF-21 will convince the Indonesian MoD to go full Turk

From the first time I look at your account, I already have a feeling that you are a turk. I assume you are a turk and the flag is just so fake, do I'm right ? LOL.

 

[Philips]

From the first time I look at your account, I already have a feeling that you are a turk. I assume you are a turk and the flag is just so fake, do I'm right ? LOL.

No I'm not a Turk but have lived in the vicinity of Turks and have had them as friends too

 

[Umigami]

I have a better proposal for the TNI-AU

1. Sign strategic partnership with Turkey

2. Double the amount of F-16. Get older blocks, upgrade them with Turkish components of the Ozgur project +AESA+Bozdogan/Gokdogan/Gokhan+ a whole assortiment of guided weapons with (partial) license production.

3. Sign agreement to be the first to invest in TF-X with (partial) licence production.

4. Get Aksungur/Akinci/MIUS/TB2/3 also under license plus regional maintenance and service.

5. Get Turkish helicopters T625/T925 and attack helicopters with (partial) license production.

6. A whole lot of air-to-surface missiles from ATMACA and SOM to UMTAS and CIRIT.

7. Radars and SAM also under license production.

8. Other systems not related to the air force

Pro's: Truly kickstarting Indonesian defence industry, no limit to weapons production and procurement (consider yourselves lucky if you have on average 2 AIM-120's for every US fighter that you have)
Cons: forking multiple billions of dollars (10B?) over the course of 10+ years. Cancellation of Rafale+F-15EX and in the long run the KF-X.

Indonesia can do it and the Turks would be willing to. The only thing Indonesia is lacking is the will and ambition. I hope that IDEF-21 will convince the Indonesian MoD to go full Turk

Bold 1: and stuck fully with jets that will obsolete in decades to come? No way!

Bold 2: what investment Turks gonna give to Indonesia? Do you want to buy more of our CPO, coal, Li-ion battery, etc?
Not gonna happen.

 

[Philips]

Bold 1: and stuck fully with jets that will obsolete in decades to come? No way!

You current F-16's are from the oldest blocks. You can get some block 30 and 40 and upgrade them with Turkish assistance and they will be perfectly fine till the TF-X comes online from 2030 on.

 

[Philips]

Bold 2: what investment Turks gonna give to Indonesia? Do you want to buy more of our CPO, coal, Li-ion battery, etc?
Not gonna happen.

Your students get to study in Turkey for degrees relevant to military tech and your graduates get junior-positions in Turkish institutions for know-how accumulation. With this knowledge Indonesia can design their own military products. This requires a strategic partnership of at least a decade though.

 

[schuimpjes]

I have a better proposal for the TNI-AU

1. Sign strategic partnership with Turkey

2. Double the amount of F-16. Get older blocks, upgrade them with Turkish components of the Ozgur project +AESA+Bozdogan/Gokdogan/Gokhan+ a whole assortiment of guided weapons with (partial) license production.

3. Sign agreement to be the first to invest in TF-X with (partial) licence production.

4. Get Aksungur/Akinci/MIUS/TB2/3 also under license plus regional maintenance and service.

5. Get Turkish helicopters T625/T925 and attack helicopters with (partial) license production.

6. A whole lot of air-to-surface missiles from ATMACA and SOM to UMTAS and CIRIT.

7. Radars and SAM also under license production.

8. Other systems not related to the air force

Pro's: Truly kickstarting Indonesian defence industry, no limit to weapons production and procurement (consider yourselves lucky if you have on average 2 AIM-120's for every US fighter that you have)

Cons: forking multiple billions of dollars (10B?) over the course of 10+ years. Cancellation of Rafale+F-15EX and in the long run the KF-X.

Indonesia can do it and the Turks would be willing to. The only thing Indonesia is lacking is the will and ambition. I hope that IDEF-21 will convince the Indonesian MoD to go full Turk

Who do you think we are? Defense minister or President? And who are you can make the whole turkish defense industries decisions.

You are high on kebab LOL.

 

[Umigami]

You current F-16's are from the oldest blocks. You can get some block 30 and 40 and upgrade them with Turkish assistance and they will be perfectly fine till the TF-X comes online from 2030 on.

Just stop, we Indonesian already had enough with this "angin surga" promises of still-in-development Fighters, especially from countries that still on learning phase.

 

[Philips]

Who do you think we are? Defense minister or President? And who are you can make the whole turkish defense industries decisions.

You are high on kebab LOL.

Please respond without ad-hom.

 

[Madokafc]

We heard this sales pitch countless times before. We don't need this. It sounds like afterthought anyway.

Ok, I'll make a very reasonable offer for you. We'll buy those 72 Falcons, but you have to give us the production license for F-16V. Full backing, full support, full guidance, full assistance, full responsibility for long-term (30-40 years). You'll teach and guide us from A-to-Z how to make formidable 4th-4.5th gen aircraft. The target is, the next F-16V (or whatever the next 4.5th gen you have) that we need, must be produced in-house.

We have been giving you a lot of money for decades. We would even give you a lot more money if we agree to this. Billions of dollars. That's people money. Our money. We've been feeding you. The average Indonesians who struggling with their daily life have been filing up your pockets. So this is the least that you can give us.

We don't even need your money. We only need your knowledge & expertise.

Deal?

Lol,

I would not even bother if Indonesia finally chose Gripen or whatever thing at the end of the program and actually found what they get is not that much important to their condition and need at the end of day. But as an Indonesian i still hold my conciousness as Indonesian and trying the best to help what Indonesia need while doing my job and arrange thing to match into what we called Win Win Solution without affecting my professional ethic. Fortunately it is not you at the helmet of this matter or business, trying to take much bargain at the start of negotiation, trying to put condition upon us while not giving equivalence trading on the Table while it is you who clearly need our cooperation in the first place is not help this Country very much. Fortunately the one i got in the touch about this matter is much more humble and knowing the glaring truth about Indonesia need, condition of our defense industry and capability compared to you.

ps, just let the Indonesian government solved their Boramae problem and fulfilling their commitment first. The whole world already taking notes what Indonesian capable doing at, dragging things, delaying projects agreed upon beforehand and further more break the contract profesionally drafted.

 

[Umigami]

Your students get to study in Turkey for degrees relevant to military tech and your graduates get junior-positions in Turkish institutions for know-how accumulation. With this knowledge Indonesia can design their own military products. This requires a strategic partnership of at least a decade though.

Where's the money?

 

[Philips]

Where's the money?

Be more specific. Whose money?

 

[Umigami]

Be more specific. Whose money?

Where's your investment? Or do you (turkey) want to buy our product?

 

[Philips]

Where's your investment?

I don't know, I'm not interested in economics. But Indonesia will get knowledge and know-how to make high-quality military products themselves in the long-term.

 

[Philips]

Or do you (turkey) want to buy our product?

I am not a Turk and please use capital letter for countries.

 

[Madokafc]

OK next time. Just keep your Grey Wolves like mentality for yourself.

Stop with the ad hominem dude, there is no need to put insult and slander. Made the conversation heating but keep Civil!!!

 

[Umigami]

I don't know, I not interested in economics. But Indonesia will get knowledge and know-how to make high-quality military products themselves in the long-term.

It's not enough.
Let's change the question then.
Do turkey can pressure PRC on SCS matter like US do?

 

[schuimpjes]

Stop with the ad hominem dude, there is no need to put insult and slander. Made the conversation heating but keep Civil!!!

Yup... I wanna sleep after this.

 

[Philips]

Do turkey can pressure PRC on SCS matter like US do?

No but it can teach Indonesia how to catch fish instead of just selling it. A strategic partnership between Turkey and Indonesia doesn't mean that Indonesia has to pick Turkish products. They are free to buy whatever from whoever they want, including the US. But don't count too much on the US. The world is starting to become multi-polar.