Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[this is crunch]

Hmmm what if we cancel KF-21, F-15ID and go full Rafale instead ? Something like 80-100 Rafale

whoa this is the first time i see someone use the angry reaction

 

[Umigami]

whoa this is the first time i see someone use the angry reaction

Lha... temenan nagis to?

 

[Indos]

Then what we gonna do with its local production line after TNI's order driying up?

Look again my long post there, Indonesia GDP will be quite big inshaAllah. In 2034 RCEP projected the economy to reach 4 trillion USD.

I am expecting 150-200 order, and it could be another 400 for Wingman program.

About Wingman program possibility, senior KF21/IFX engineer that I spoke to do agree on the possibility we are going to develop Stealth Wingman program in the future.

 

[Gary]

whoa this is the first time i see someone use the angry reaction

that means its mission success. hehe

I'm just trolling a bit

 

[Umigami]

Look again my long post there, Indonesia GDP will be quite big inshaAllah. In 2034 RCEP projected the economy to reach 4 trillion USD.

I am expecting 150-200 order, and it could be another 400 for Wingman program.

About Wingman program possibility, senior KF21/IFX engineer that I spoke to do agree on the possibility we are going to develop Stealth Wingman program in the future.

Do we buy fighter based on how Big our economy is and not on needs?

 

[Indos]

Do we buy fighter based on how Big our economy is and not on needs?

Bigger economy, bigger ambition

 

[Parry Brima]

Hmmm what if we cancel KF-21, F-15ID and go full Rafale instead ? Something like 80-100 Rafale

Surprisingly, it seems like it's the cheapest option now. Normally that's not how things go with European solution.

 

[HellFireIndo]

Hmmm what if we cancel KF-21, F-15ID and go full Rafale instead ? Something like 80-100 Rafale

Bad Idea.

 

[Gary]

Bad Idea.

WhY ?

 

[Zinan 二]

this opinion comes from the ministry of finance

RI Akuisisi Jet Tempur F15ID, Motif Ekonomi atau Pertahanan?

Terlepas dari pro dan kontra yang muncul, rencana akuisisi tersebut merupakan hilir dari sebuah proses.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

 

[HellFireIndo]

WhY ?

Well, guys here also argue to not "put all your eggs in one basket", that's the main take. It is too risky to rely on one aircraft model, from one supplier, and sacrifice every other option for it. Even the US with their arsenal of F-35s acknowledged that one trick solution is a no, that's why they even made the F-15EX; to give more options to their airpower capability.

Rafale, even if they are marketed as Omnirole, is still limited in design and cannot perform all missions and requirements in every circumstance. For example, their range is less than F-15 EX, carries less loadout, and has slightly less potent EW than EPAWWS. Then we got into the issue of logistics and politics, France is one country with a smaller industrial capacity than the US, Imagine the waiting list if we go for 100 Rafale, it will probably be in the 2030s when we get the final Rafale delivery. Moreover, we have to rely entirely exclusively on France to provide everything Rafale needs to operate, it is especially important to note because many components are exclusively French and even exclusively for Rafale.

But if we divide our orders into three models from three countries, that will cut the potential length of the acquisition process for the same amount of airframes. Might be logistically complicated, but at least they are all based on western techs anyway, should be less a headache that with Sukhois for example. Then the political aspect might have an even bigger role. F-15EX deal probably carries the most political consideration, as buying them will get us favors with the US, and they do seem to insist on it because of their apparent interest to balance their trade deficit with us. The fact that they offer us a full spec F-15EX is a chance for us to secure US support in the SCS issue, to prevent them from going against our interest in this crucial time.

As for KF-21, this is obviously important because it is a stepping stone for our aircraft industry, and also to preserve our military, diplomatic, and scientific relation with SK. Canceling it out will get us back to zero after all of these years of R&D and cooperation, we cannot waste it. The addition of KF-21, in which we have a part in big or small, is a guarantee that someday we are able to increasingly be less reliant on other countries in maintaining and producing aircraft, very important for the growth of our defense industry. The difference with KF-21 is that we have a stake in it, Rafale is fully French, so does the F-15EX is fully American, these nations have complete control over these planes, but for KF-21, we have partial ownership of it.

So yeah, in each plane there are different stakes. For purely military capability requirements in the near future, Rafale might fulfill it just fine. For political favor and a variety of options, is F-15EX. For industrial, technological, and diplomatic needs, is KF-21. Also, both Rafale and F-15EX could pave the way for KF-21.

That's basically my take on it, you might have a different opinion.

 

[Madokafc]

You are just civilian, better use opinion from the engineer

All hail the great leader, your words is our wish

 

[Madokafc]

this opinion comes from the ministry of finance

RI Akuisisi Jet Tempur F15ID, Motif Ekonomi atau Pertahanan?

Terlepas dari pro dan kontra yang muncul, rencana akuisisi tersebut merupakan hilir dari sebuah proses.

www.cnbcindonesia.com

Those opinion had been online in this very forum since last year, it was already become a policy and i am clearly stated it was come and backed from Ministry of finance itself along with Ministry of trade (i am put the opinion from my friend in analis and kebijakan fiskal Department of kemensultan). You all can browse it from history search...

 

[HellFireIndo]

All hail the great leader, your words is our wish

All non-military citizens are "civilians", technically speaking, even the President. We all came from diverse backgrounds, some are educated in SAINTEK, some from SOSHUM. Some work in the industries, military or civilian, some also work in the government. Some focus on the defense industry and technology, some focus on defense policy. Of course, we have differing opinions, that's normal, just like in other any discussion. So maintaining respect and acknowledging differing perspectives is always expected.

Tho admittedly I can be a bit toxic sometimes

 

[NEKO]

Then what we gonna do with its local production line after TNI's order driying up?

Ordering more KFX (more advanced than first order) is not a bad idea.
BTW post KFX-IFX I hope PT DI have some plan to develop new plane, maybe LIFT? Eniwei they should not idle.

All hail the great leader, your words is our wish

All these flavors and you choose to be salty.

 

[Madokafc]

Ordering more KFX (more advanced than first order) is not a bad idea.
BTW post KFX-IFX I hope PT DI have some plan to develop new plane, maybe LIFT? Eniwei they should not idle.

All these flavors and you choose to be salty.

Salt is important for your health though

 

[Indos]

Ordering more KFX (more advanced than first order) is not a bad idea.
BTW post KFX-IFX I hope PT DI have some plan to develop new plane, maybe LIFT? Eniwei they should not idle.

All these flavors and you choose to be salty.

About LIFT, there is plan in 2008, before KF 21/IFX program started

 

[Indos]

All non-military citizens are "civilians", technically speaking, even the President. We all came from diverse backgrounds, some are educated in SAINTEK, some from SOSHUM. Some work in the industries, military or civilian, some also work in the government. Some focus on the defense industry and technology, some focus on defense policy. Of course, we have differing opinions, that's normal, just like in other any discussion. So maintaining respect and acknowledging differing perspectives is always expected.

Tho admittedly I can be a bit toxic sometimes

What I mean non Aerospace engineer. I am not an engineer myselves, but those I brought based on discussion with KF21/IFX engineer, and about Wingman program is my own opinion, but he is agree on that

@Maverick sorry bro

 

[Stuka Dive]

Hmmm what if we cancel KF-21, F-15ID and go full Rafale instead ? Something like 80-100 Rafale

If the French offers full ToT scheme the same to what India will receive if they buy large number of Rafale, then why not? it is include propulsion engine ToT though, better deal than KFX ToT

 

[NEKO]

About LIFT, there is plan in 2008, before KF 21/IFX program started

View attachment 39942

Stealth? Or just stealth looking?