Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Mandala]

RIP. My deepest condolences. Very sad day today.

 

[Umigami]

We lost 2 sutuc, years ago we lost two kt-1.

And a T50 too this year.

 

[Umigami]

Routine formation flight in a bad weather. Mid air collision ?

 

[Gary]

Could be mid air collision, note that no one ejected

 

[Umigami]

Not one of the crashed aircrafts

https://fb.watch/omGhYhdai0/?mibextid=CDWPTG

 

[Spitfire9]

Indonesia still is, and although you don't seem to know, they were planned to be part of the KF-X IF-X supply chain partner. I've explained it literally in the last page.

It's just that Indonesia threw that opportunity away by not paying. Simple as that.

I think that Indonesia's 'performance' in this international partnership has shown potential international partners that they should not partner with Indonesia. It has also shown that Indonesian government promises to pay are worthless.

I agree with you. The potential benefits of KF-X have been squandered.

 

[Ravager]

I think that Indonesia's 'performance' in this international partnership has shown potential international partners that they should not partner with Indonesia. It has also shown that Indonesian government promises to pay are worthless.

I agree with you. The potential benefits of KF-X have been squandered.

While i deeply ashamed about this particular issues and how this thing played out . The one in the knows were take this thing in stride ... Like i said before , it's never about financial capability ... It's something else .
In one single stroke ...he kill the korean weapon deals profiteers both foreign and domestic ..
We will pay this debts eventually ..but , it's just not in the way of some people might wished it to be ..

 

[Spitfire9]

While i deeply ashamed about this particular issues and how this thing played out . The one in the knows were take this thing in stride ... Like i said before , it's never about financial capability ... It's something else .
In one single stroke ...he kill the korean weapon deals profiteers both foreign and domestic ..
We will pay this debts eventually ..but , it's just not in the way of some people might wished it to be ..

If Indonesia had been sensible

1 It would have made payments according to the contract with ROK
2 It would have made payments according to an agreed amended payment schedule to cover debts run up
3 It would not have made contracts with other OEM's eg Dassault and made payments to them instead of ROK

I wonder in the future, when the air force needs spares for its Rafales, there will be delays in payment. Try that and I suspect that the air force will end up cannibalising some of its airframes to keep the rest flying. A way to get into that situation is

1 Order spares, make an initial payment according to contract and receive the spares
2 Fail to adhere to contract for further payments
3 When more spares are needed, promise to pay the overdue amount on the spares delivered in the earlier contract
4 Be told no more spares until overdue payments are made and any new deals need to be paid for in advance
5 Fail to make payments as in (4) above

Yes, Dassault makes money from spares sales. No, it does not need to humour customers who are bad payers - they cannot fly the aircraft they bought without spares. The customer will fold and accept more stringent payment terms.

 

[Ravager]

If Indonesia had been sensible

1 It would have made payments according to the contract with ROK
2 It would have made payments according to an agreed amended payment schedule to cover debts run up
3 It would not have made contracts with other OEM's eg Dassault and made payments to them instead of ROK

I wonder in the future, when the air force needs spares for its Rafales, there will be delays in payment. Try that and I suspect that the air force will end up cannibalising some of its airframes to keep the rest flying. A way to get into that situation is

1 Order spares, make an initial payment according to contract and receive the spares
2 Fail to adhere to contract for further payments
3 When more spares are needed, promise to pay the overdue amount on the spares delivered in the earlier contract
4 Be told no more spares until overdue payments are made and any new deals need to be paid for in advance
5 Fail to make payments as in (4) above

Yes, Dassault makes money from spares sales. No, it does not need to humour customers who are bad payers - they cannot fly the aircraft they bought without spares. The customer will fold and accept more stringent payment terms.

Well , let me pass your brilliant suggestion to MoD and President then . Who knows ... Your brilliant suggestion may have been noted and contemplated at this very moment

 

[Spitfire9]

Well , let me pass your brilliant suggestion to MoD and President then . Who knows ... Your brilliant suggestion may have been noted and contemplated at this very moment

Not a brilliant suggestion. Just a sensible one. Don't bother passing it on to the Finance ministry or MOD. They know they are in a vulnerable position. They might act sensibly. They might not.

If you spend several billion dollars on a weapons system (Rafale) important to your national security, you become reliant on the OEM for it to continue functioning. Playing silly financial games along the lines of the behaviour Indonesia has displayed with the KF-X programme does not work when you have paid for a military aircraft that requires OEM support to remain airworthy.

Indonesia could expect ROK to cover its failure to make KF-X development cost payments. What were the prospects of ROK halting the programme because Indonesia was not paying its 20% share?

What are the prospects of Dassault shipping Rafale spares to Indonesia if it does not honour payment terms? Dassault is in control here, not its customer.

 

[Ravager]

Not a brilliant suggestion. Just a sensible one. Don't bother passing it on to the Finance ministry or MOD. They know they are in a vulnerable position. They might act sensibly. They might not.

If you spend several billion dollars on a weapons system (Rafale) important to your national security, you become reliant on the OEM for it to continue functioning. Playing silly financial games along the lines of the behaviour Indonesia has displayed with the KF-X programme does not work when you have paid for a military aircraft that requires OEM support to remain airworthy.

Indonesia could expect ROK to cover its failure to make KF-X development cost payments. What were the prospects of ROK halting the programme because Indonesia was not paying its 20% share?

What are the prospects of Dassault shipping Rafale spares to Indonesia if it does not honour payment terms? Dassault is in control here, not its customer.

KFX and rafale weren't aples and oranges ... And and unless you could whispers all of this directly into jokowi's ear ....you only wasting your breaths trying to preach us on something beyond our controls...
You are lecturing on a wrong audiences bud

 

[Spitfire9]

KFX and rafale weren't aples and oranges ... And and unless you could whispers all of this directly into jokowi's ear ....you only wasting your breaths trying to preach us on something beyond our controls...
You are lecturing on a wrong audiences bud

That's good to hear - no problems will be had with Rafale because of failure to honour contracts.

Perhaps I'm a bit strange but I see breaching a contract where you can get away with it without consequences like an apple. Breaching a contract where you cannot get away with it without consequences I see like an orange.

What happens is beyond our control. To you, does that mean we cannot offer our opinions? That is the idea of a forum such as this, I believe.

 

[Gary]

EMB-314 with new MFD and FCP made by Infoglobal

View attachment 62974 View attachment 62975 View attachment 62976

TT-3103, one of the plane involved in yesterday's accident in the background

 

[Anmdt]

TT-3103, one of the plane involved in yesterday's accident in the background


View attachment 63030

But it wasn't upgraded with those avionics right?

 

[Gary]

But it wasn't upgraded with those avionics right?

The one's upgraded (visible) is TT-3107

 

[Ravager]

That's good to hear - no problems will be had with Rafale because of failure to honour contracts.

Perhaps I'm a bit strange but I see breaching a contract where you can get away with it without consequences like an apple. Breaching a contract where you cannot get away with it without consequences I see like an orange.

What happens is beyond our control. To you, does that mean we cannot offer our opinions? That is the idea of a forum such as this, I believe.

On personal note i respecting your opinion ...which we indonesia forumer has allready discussed it to the death since 5 years ago . So , to hear it a foreigner brought up the corpse from the grave were kind of hillarious to say the least. ...
Did you really think we indonesian doesn't recognized and understand the repercussion of this shit show ?? Do you ??
One thing for sure is ... All of these payment delays actions wouldn't happen without a sanctioned order from the highest echelons of this republic apparatus .
How they could get away with all of these ... You have to ask the Indonesia Mod and Finance ministry about the full recourse of the contract.
Even after all of these years those documents are still a closed archive .

 

[Spitfire9]

OK. I was unaware of discussions over the years, so sorry to have repeated them.

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1727306922796474567

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1727548757439574348

 

[Mandala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1727521831803142483