Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

Aghost132483

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Hm... as long as not APBN.
Its ok for assistance, consultations, supervision from the govt, SOE, TNI AU etc.

But if its a national program led by DI then the govt should give all out support.
Actually I am disappointed when R-80 excluded from PSN then they choose Elang hitam that ended up failed to continue. If we support Ilham Habibie to develop R-80, we can use it as Maritime Surveillance Aircraft for Navy, Coast Guard and Fisheries (PSDKP). And we can sell it for civilian purpose / passenger aircraft. By the way I hope Prabowo will provide support for R-80
 

NEKO

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Even the simpler and cheaper N219 is still crawling at snail speed.
 

Umigami

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Well, yes, I would love to see the US finally allow us to buy F-35s. However, even after they refused to sell them to both Indonesia and Thailand, I somehow feel that it will still be easier for the latter to eventually obtain US permission to buy them.

With that said, rather than the F-35, it appears that Turkiye's KAAN is a much more interesting prospect, don't you think?
Consider it when it's already mature enough as a 5th gen. Not in earlier block.
 

Gary

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Actually I am disappointed when R-80 excluded from PSN then they choose Elang hitam that ended up failed to continue. If we support Ilham Habibie to develop R-80, we can use it as Maritime Surveillance Aircraft for Navy, Coast Guard and Fisheries (PSDKP). And we can sell it for civilian purpose / passenger aircraft. By the way I hope Prabowo will provide support for R-80

Not that simple, let's say even after R-80 finished its R&D phase and proceeded with a successful first flight. RAI must then market the plane to potential customers and it needs a certain level of orders to make its price competitive. Airlines prefer the market leader in this segment like ATR-72 simply because ATR's sales support is much more extensive.

Back then when N-250 was conceived, the competitors are Fokker-27/50, De-Havilland Dash-8. To win market, Habibie designed the plane with the most powerful engine in its class, full glass cockpit and most importantly a sophisticated fly-by-wire that was not common to regional airliners back then. Nowadays those two are pretty much common, and if RAI wants to win the market, it would need to make a regional plane that is a lot more advanced than let's say ATR-72-600 and that costs a lot of money. Money that the government simply won't allocate.

Without a strong civilian market, a military version of R-80 is impossible, unless we want to keep burning money.
 

NEKO

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Already 2024 and no N219 delivered (production ver).

There is so much delay, the first flight delayed several times with various reasons, and production also keep getting delayed.
 

FPXAllen

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Already 2024 and no N219 delivered (production ver).

There is so much delay, the first flight delayed several times with various reasons, and production also keep getting delayed.

PTDI themselves were frustrated by it, or at least that was the impression I got during the Singapore Airshow.
Sorry for these shameless plugs, btw:


Indonesian version:

 

Umigami

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By the way, this part:

I wonder why he didn't mention the KF-21 program. If we're still on track with it, that is.

But really, I do think it'll be good if we go no further after acquiring 24 F-15EX, especially regarding buying ready-made jet fighters from abroad, and then direct our resources to the Boramae. Even better if the next government then gives their full support to the I-22 Sikatan as well, even though it may not be as advanced as KF-21.
 

Soman45

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TNI AU more than a decade ago, some of the individuals in the video have since passed away.
 

NEKO

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Japan's ruling coalition approves export of future joint fighter jet​


The ruling Liberal Democratic Party and its junior coalition partner, Komeito, have agreed to revise Japan’s strict defense export guidelines to allow sales of a fighter aircraft Tokyo is co-developing with Rome and London — a move that removes a potentially critical hurdle for the multinational Global Combat Aircraft Programme (GCAP).
After months of talks, the ruling bloc agreed Friday to ease the restrictions as long as exports of the next-generation aircraft are limited to countries that have signed defense equipment and technology transfer deals with Japan, while also excluding those directly involved in conflicts.

The Cabinet will relax the stringent restrictions and make export decisions on a case-by-case basis after the discussions within the ruling bloc. Moreover, a reference to each approved export will be made in the country’s defense export guidelines by a group of nine ministers.

Current rules do not allow for jointly developed and completed defense products to be exported to any country other than development partner nations, which is why the ruling bloc agreed to limit such defense exports — at least for now — to the future supersonic jet.

“From now on, we will discuss what’s important for Japan’s national interests, listening to the public and being accountable,” LDP policy chief Kisaburo Tokai told reporters Friday after meeting with his Komeito counterpart to finalize the negotiations.

Komeito, known for its dovish stance on security and defense issues, had been cautious about any quick decision on revising the export rules, stressing the need to deepen public understanding over any changes.

“I would also like to ask the government to provide further explanation in order to gain the understanding of the public,” Komeito policy chief Yosuke Takagi said, stressing Komeito’s role in building public consensus around the move. “The duty to explain does not end with today’s agreement.”

An NHK poll released earlier in March showed that just 54% of respondents approved of co-developed defense equipment being exported to third countries under certain conditions, while 32% were against such exports. A separate JNN poll indicated that 57% of Komeito supporters were against the move.

While the LDP has long wanted to build up Japan's domestic defense industry to become a "normal" exporter of defense technology, Komeito’s position had effectively stalled any decision on the matter since November, despite a government push to reach a deal by the end of last month.

Komeito’s gambit was largely seen as a political gesture to reassure its supporters that Japanese-made military systems would not be sold to countries in conflict, in line with the country’s pacifist principles — a core element of the party’s platform.

The coalition’s fighter export agreement nonetheless appeared to be something of a formality for the ruling bloc, given Tokyo’s deal with Britain and Italy to develop and operate the stealthy fighter jet by 2035 was already settled in December 2022.

The resulting deal, while falling short of the LDP’s initial push for broader changes to the export rules, will still be seen as a significant step — possibly even one toward more expansive changes to the guidelines as Tokyo continues to shed some of its postwar constraints on its military and defense policy.

Tokai denied speculation of internal LDP dissatisfaction around the agreement, lauding the thorough debate both within the party and in its negotiations with Komeito.

Prime Minister Fumio Kishida had made his case for the move in parliament in recent weeks, saying that easing the restrictions for the fighter jet would help create a “favorable security environment” for Japan while also giving Tokyo’s fledgling defense export industry a much-needed reputational boost.

The agreed revision, which comes as Tokyo, Rome and London are set to deepen discussions this month about key aspects of GCAP, removes a potentially critical hurdle for the multibillion dollar project.

From an international perspective, the move will help reassure Tokyo's GCAP partners that Japan is fully committed to the program, including third-country exports.

Under the conditions set by the ruling bloc, the fighter aircraft could potentially be exported to at least 15 countries, including the two GCAP partners, as this is the number of nations Tokyo has already signed defense-tech transfer agreements with — a figure that is likely to grow as Japan expands and bolsters its network of international security partners.

However, the newly revised export guidelines could still undergo future changes — especially if the regional security environment around Japan further deteriorates — as the aircraft is only expected to become operational 11 years from now.

At last month's Singapore Airshow, a BAE Systems’ representative working on the program told The Japan Times that GCAP — meant to replace aging Air Self-Defense Force F-2 fighters, as well as British and Italian Eurofighters — has been designed from the outset with foreign sales in mind.

BAE Systems is one of the three companies expected to be lead system integrators in the joint program, alongside Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Italy’s Leonardo.

These firms are set to be part of an industrial conglomerate that is expected to be launched from the end of this year, with this meant to deliver the program while working closely together with another key entity, the GCAP International Government Organization.

GIGO is the intergovernmental body designed to manage the project and agree on joint roles and responsibilities between the trilateral partners — critical aspects that are set to be discussed in greater detail during meetings this month.

Industry officials have said they are close to completing the aircraft’s conceptual design phase, pointing out that this will allow them to move to the next stage of the program in 2025 — the design and development phase — which is expected to last five years and lead to the maiden flight of the first test aircraft from around 2030.

GCAP marks Japan's first collaboration with countries other than the United States to meet a major defense requirement and coincides with what Tokyo has described as an “increasingly severe” international security environment.

The twin-engine jet is expected to function as both a combat aircraft and a flying command center capable of controlling and coordinating other assets — likely those that are autonomous — with the aircraft viewed as “the centerpiece of a wider combat air system that will function across multiple domains.”

In terms of interoperability, the sixth-generation fighter is also being designed with the U.S. military and other NATO forces in mind, since Japan, Italy and the United Kingdom all hope to employ the fighter in joint operations with allies and partners.

To speed up the development process, the jet is expected to benefit from the latest advancements in design and engineering technology, with the project set to rely heavily on integrated digital engineering processes.

The adoption of these technologies will allow for round-the-clock work across different locations and time zones.


Meanwhile:
Indonesia.
  • Agreement concerning the Transfer of Defense Equipment and Technology (under negotiation)


I wonder if we can get GCAP from UK? or Japan is responsible for Asia-Pacific region sales?
 

Soman45

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So there are two options: the first one is like the title above, and the other one is to prolong the payment until 2034 (However, we know that this option has been denied by SK's government.), But isn't this the agreement between us and SK's government? to assemble the KF-21 for TNI-AU in PT. DI? What kind of production are we considering?
 
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Umigami

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So there are two options: the first one is like the title above, and the other one is to prolong the payment until 2034 (However, we know that this option has been denied by SK's government.), But isn't this the agreement between us and SK's government? to assemble the KF-21 for TNI-AU in PT. DI? What kind of production are we considering?
"Merakit" can be called production here. Also production of some wings.
 

NEKO

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So there are two options: the first one is like the title above, and the other one is to prolong the payment until 2034 (However, we know that this option has been denied by SK's government.), But isn't this the agreement between us and SK's government? to assemble the KF-21 for TNI-AU in PT. DI? What kind of production are we considering?
Uh... from my understanding our KF-21 will be build in Indonesia, that's why I support it since the beginning.
Why now its like we won't build it here?
 

FPXAllen

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Uh... from my understanding our KF-21 will be build in Indonesia, that's why I support it since the beginning.
Why now its like we won't build it here?
Because we keep dragging our feet to pay our remaining share?
 

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