Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[buzztami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381785761826082816

Japan got EPAWWS.

About KFX, my understanding until now is IFX and KFX will use the same (hanwha) system: avionics, IRST, etc. The only differences are just a minor thing like IFX got bigger drop tank and drag chute.

But some people out there say we have to develop or buy a lot of system by ourself (radar, irst, engine, etc)

Am I the one who's wrong here?

I just wonder if IFX would be different from KF21. If we finally buy Rafale at least 36 maybe we can ask TOT to integrate the Rafale system into IFX. Imagine IFX using RBE2 AA AESA radar, Spectra EW, Talios Targeting pod, European missile (meteor, IRIS-T) we will have a huge commonality between Rafale and IFX which will save a lot of resource in MRO, If Malaysia can do this (using France subsystem) to their SU-30 MKM, this could happen too if we are willing to do this. This could lead to an opportunity to sell IFX for the country that currently uses Rafale for their future 5th gen Fighter (India, Qatar, Egypt, Greece)-since this country will be difficult to have access to American 5th gen fighter and Dassault moving to develop into 6th gen instead of 5th gen fighter. My wild dream, IFX could transform into a stealth form of Rafale So Korea can sell their version of KF21, and we can sell our version of IFX (F33?) definitely through Korea.

 

[NEKO]

I just wonder if IFX would be different from KF21. If we finally buy Rafale at least 36 maybe we can ask TOT to integrate the Rafale system into IFX. Imagine IFX using RBE2 AA AESA radar, Spectra EW, Talios Targeting pod, European missile (meteor, IRIS-T) we will have a huge commonality between Rafale and IFX which will save a lot of resource in MRO, If Malaysia can do this to their SU-30 MKM, this could happen too if we are willing to do this. This could be lead to an opportunity to sell IFX for the country that currently uses Rafale for their future 5th gen Fighter (India, Qatar, Egypt)-since this country will be difficult to have access to American 5th gen fighter and Dassault moving to develop into 6th gen instead of 5th gen fighter. My wild dream, IFX could transform into a stealth form of Rafale So Korea can sell their version of KF21, and we can sell our version of IFX (F33?) definitely through Korea.

Amin

 

[Umigami]

I just wonder if IFX would be different from KF21. If we finally buy Rafale at least 36 maybe we can ask TOT to integrate the Rafale system into IFX. Imagine IFX using RBE2 AA AESA radar, Spectra EW, Talios Targeting pod, European missile (meteor, IRIS-T) we will have a huge commonality between Rafale and IFX which will save a lot of resource in MRO, If Malaysia can do this to their SU-30 MKM, this could happen too if we are willing to do this. This could lead to an opportunity to sell IFX for the country that currently uses Rafale for their future 5th gen Fighter (India, Qatar, Egypt, Greece)-since this country will be difficult to have access to American 5th gen fighter and Dassault moving to develop into 6th gen instead of 5th gen fighter. My wild dream, IFX could transform into a stealth form of Rafale So Korea can sell their version of KF21, and we can sell our version of IFX (F33?) definitely through Korea.

I think korean AESA gonna end up better than RBE2 aesa in 2028.

But I agree about integrating Rafale's weapon and EOTP (IF we buy rafale for real)

 

[buzztami]

I think korean AESA gonna end up better than RBE2 aesa in 2028.

But I agree about integrating Rafale's weapon and EOTP (IF we buy rafale for real)

Thales is more experienced in Radar compare to Hanwa, not to mention this is the first AESA radar made by Hanwa, I assume their product is not mature enough compare to Thales France.

 

[Umigami]

Thales is more experienced in Radar compare to Hanwa, not to mention this is the first AESA radar made by Hanwa, I assume their product is not mature enough compare to Thales France.

He's talking about current RBE2-aa
Which is will be quite "old" in 2028

 

[Stuka Dive]

Meraba Rumitnya Program IF-X

Peluncuran jet tempur KF-X atau KF-21 oleh Korea Selatan masih meninggalkan perbincangan hangat bahkan kadang panas di banyak kalangan. Berbagai hal jadi

www.jejaktapak.com

Some challenges.....obstacles or opporptunities for us?
It's up to our government on which side they are looking at....

 

[Captain Wales]

Thales is more experienced in Radar compare to Hanwa, not to mention this is the first AESA radar made by Hanwa, I assume their product is not mature enough compare to Thales France.

RBE2 in its current form were falling behind from its competitor, RBE2 basically an old radar develop in the end of 90s/early 2000 using that era tech, while thales got more experience in radar, hanwa radar is newer and they got time to perfect it till the jet come in service in 2028.
also KF21 radar got larger power output due to its larger T/R module compared to RBE2 which mean that it can capture higher resolution image.

I just wonder if IFX would be different from KF21. If we finally buy Rafale at least 36 maybe we can ask TOT to integrate the Rafale system into IFX. Imagine IFX using RBE2 AA AESA radar, Spectra EW, Talios Targeting pod, European missile (meteor, IRIS-T) we will have a huge commonality between Rafale and IFX which will save a lot of resource in MRO, If Malaysia can do this (using France subsystem) to their SU-30 MKM, this could happen too if we are willing to do this. This could lead to an opportunity to sell IFX for the country that currently uses Rafale for their future 5th gen Fighter (India, Qatar, Egypt, Greece)-since this country will be difficult to have access to American 5th gen fighter and Dassault moving to develop into 6th gen instead of 5th gen fighter.

while that would be a good idea, but realistically no.

integrating rafale systems to kf21 would be hard.
firstly, the radar got different shape, RBE2 more circle like shape while kf21 radar more oval like shape. if we wanted to do that we need to change the shape of the radome (which affect the aerodynamics and rcs of the plane).
second, if we want to change electronics we must considered what maximum power output that kf21 generate.

while the plan is to integrate KF21 with EU weapons systems, i'm sure that they will do the same with US systems, considering much of the weapon that were used on ROKAF right now were US made (the same weapon that we use on our f16), so we already got some commonality in that area.

My wild dream, IFX could transform into a stealth form of Rafale So Korea can sell their version of KF21, and we can sell our version of IFX (F33?) definitely through Korea.

if we use french made equipment then it not our version of KFX, it would be french version, we just put stuff together.

 

[Umigami]

RBE2 in its current form were falling behind from its competitor, RBE2 basically an old radar develop in the end of 90s/early 2000 using that era tech, while thales got more experience in radar, hanwa radar is newer and they got time to perfect it till the jet come in service in 2028.
also KF21 radar got larger power output due to its larger T/R module compared to RBE2 which mean that it can capture higher resolution image.


while that would be a good idea, but realistically no.

integrating rafale systems to kf21 would be hard.
firstly, the radar got different shape, RBE2 more circle like shape while kf21 radar more oval like shape. if we wanted to do that we need to change the shape of the radome (which affect the aerodynamics and rcs of the plane).
second, if we want to change electronics we must considered what maximum power output that kf21 generate.

while the plan is to integrate KF21 with EU weapons systems, i'm sure that they will do the same with US systems, considering much of the weapon that were used on ROKAF right now were US made (the same weapon that we use on our f16), so we already got some commonality in that area.


if we use french made equipment then it not our version of KFX, it would be french version, we just put stuff together.

Hanwha AESA

Thales's RBE2-AA

Just look at how different they're mounted in their respective platforms. We have to structurally redesign KFX nose sections if we want to put RBE2-AA into it.

But I totally agree if ID AF use MBDA Meteor

 

[NEKO]

RBE2 in its current form were falling behind from its competitor, RBE2 basically an old radar develop in the end of 90s/early 2000 using that era tech, while thales got more experience in radar, hanwa radar is newer and they got time to perfect it till the jet come in service in 2028.
also KF21 radar got larger power output due to its larger T/R module compared to RBE2 which mean that it can capture higher resolution image.


while that would be a good idea, but realistically no.

integrating rafale systems to kf21 would be hard.
firstly, the radar got different shape, RBE2 more circle like shape while kf21 radar more oval like shape. if we wanted to do that we need to change the shape of the radome (which affect the aerodynamics and rcs of the plane).
second, if we want to change electronics we must considered what maximum power output that kf21 generate.

while the plan is to integrate KF21 with EU weapons systems, i'm sure that they will do the same with US systems, considering much of the weapon that were used on ROKAF right now were US made (the same weapon that we use on our f16), so we already got some commonality in that area.


if we use french made equipment then it not our version of KFX, it would be french version, we just put stuff together.

Still, I don't think that SK would like the idea, they will lose $ if we not using their subsystems.

 

[R4duga]

Hanwha AESA

Thales's RBE2-AA

Just look at how different they're mounted in their respective platforms. We have to structurally redesign KFX nose sections if we want to put RBE2-AA into it.

But I totally agree if ID AF use MBDA Meteor

RBE2 in its current form were falling behind from its competitor, RBE2 basically an old radar develop in the end of 90s/early 2000 using that era tech, while thales got more experience in radar, hanwa radar is newer and they got time to perfect it till the jet come in service in 2028.
also KF21 radar got larger power output due to its larger T/R module compared to RBE2 which mean that it can capture higher resolution image.


while that would be a good idea, but realistically no.

integrating rafale systems to kf21 would be hard.
firstly, the radar got different shape, RBE2 more circle like shape while kf21 radar more oval like shape. if we wanted to do that we need to change the shape of the radome (which affect the aerodynamics and rcs of the plane).
second, if we want to change electronics we must considered what maximum power output that kf21 generate.

while the plan is to integrate KF21 with EU weapons systems, i'm sure that they will do the same with US systems, considering much of the weapon that were used on ROKAF right now were US made (the same weapon that we use on our f16), so we already got some commonality in that area.


if we use french made equipment then it not our version of KFX, it would be french version, we just put stuff together.

i remember back reading in some forum that , the real RBE2-AA AESA radar actually never shown to public , and the number of its real TRM module are still mystery, CMIIW .

 

[Umigami]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1383882455297937

Another alternative for A to A missile?

 

[buzztami]

RBE2 in its current form were falling behind from its competitor, RBE2 basically an old radar develop in the end of 90s/early 2000 using that era tech, while thales got more experience in radar, hanwa radar is newer and they got time to perfect it till the jet come in service in 2028.
also KF21 radar got larger power output due to its larger T/R module compared to RBE2 which mean that it can capture higher resolution image.


while that would be a good idea, but realistically no.

integrating rafale systems to kf21 would be hard.
firstly, the radar got different shape, RBE2 more circle like shape while kf21 radar more oval like shape. if we wanted to do that we need to change the shape of the radome (which affect the aerodynamics and rcs of the plane).
second, if we want to change electronics we must considered what maximum power output that kf21 generate.

while the plan is to integrate KF21 with EU weapons systems, i'm sure that they will do the same with US systems, considering much of the weapon that were used on ROKAF right now were US made (the same weapon that we use on our f16), so we already got some commonality in that area.


if we use french made equipment then it not our version of KFX, it would be french version, we just put stuff together.

My thought was, "IF" we finally acquired Rafale, let say 2 Sq (36 units) we can negotiate with France on how to Integrating subsystem (just like the India ways get benefits from Rafale TOT to enhance their Tejas).

#1 Reason: We learn how to design a fighter jet from Korea, but they ban us (Korea +US) to get more knowledge for the subsystem
#2 Reason: KF21 will use European missiles (the same with Rafale) but it will use Korean EW, Targeting Pod etc. Why don't we integrating Rafale EW (Spectra), and Talios Pod into IFX to simplify logistics, so Rafale and IFX will use the same equipment + weapon.
#3 Reason: there is a potential market in the future for the current Rafale user if they need a 5th gen fighter, so IFX could fill this market. A 5th gen fighter that has commonality with Rafale (subsystem +weapon)
#4 Reason: KF21 will have its own traditional market, while IFX will have a different market which makes KF21/IFX will have wider potential users in the future.
#5 Reason: This way will make us not too driven by Korea, while step by step we will develop and integrating our own subsystem with the help of France (which is more open/flexible compare to US tech)

 

[Umigami]

My thought was, "IF" we finally acquired Rafale, let say 2 Sq (36 units) we can negotiate with France on how to Integrating subsystem (just like the India ways get benefits from Rafale TOT to enhance their Tejas).

#1 Reason: We learn how to design a fighter jet from Korea, but they ban us (Korea +US) to get more knowledge for the subsystem
#2 Reason: KF21 will use European missiles (the same with Rafale) but it will use Korean EW, Targeting Pod etc. Why don't we integrating Rafale EW (Spectra), and Talios Pod into IFX to simplify logistics, so Rafale and IFX will use the same equipment + weapon.
#3 Reason: there is a potential market in the future for the current Rafale user if they need a 5th gen fighter, so IFX could fill this market. A 5th gen fighter that has commonality with Rafale (subsystem +weapon)
#4 Reason: KF21 will have its own traditional market, while IFX will have a different market which makes KF21/IFX will have wider potential users in the future.
#5 Reason: This way will make us not too driven by Korea, while step by step we will develop and integrating our own subsystem with the help of France (which is more open/flexible compare to US tech)

Greenligh a project that possibly become their competitors? Genius...

And why those countries have to buy an aircraft which use the same subsystem with their old one (same capability), less pylons, less range, pretty much the same MTOW, and not so stealthy to begin with?

 

[buzztami]

Greenligh a project that possibly become their competitors? Genius...

And why those countries have to buy an aircraft which use the same subsystem with their old one (same capability), less pylons, less range, pretty much the same MTOW, and not so stealthy to begin with?

That's why we still negotiate with them, we still don't know yet what do we get from Korea in this cooperation. We don't want this to end up that we spend $2 Billion but we can't even make customization to meet our needs. Let's drop this cooperation and just become a buyer instead if everything driven by Korea.

In the future, block 2 and 3 KF21 is designed to have internal bay. With the current form of stealth + internal bay weapon, this is definitely something that Rafale doesn't have.

 

[Umigami]

That's why we still negotiate with them, we still don't know yet what do we get from Korea in this cooperation. We don't want this to end up that we spend $2 Billion but we can't even make customization to meet our needs. Let's drop this cooperation and just become a buyer instead if everything driven by Korea.

In the future, block 2 and 3 KF21 is designed to have internal bay. With the current form of stealth + internal bay weapon, this is definitely something that Rafale doesn't have.

Do you think I'm just talking about Korean?

And too bad, since 9th April it's already point of no return for us. The only thing we can do now is putting local content as much as possible, like InfoGlobal instruments, etc. Just like @Indos said.

No IWB for block 2.
Block 2 is just software update (maybe for flight control?) and surface (ground and sea) attack capability.
Putting French rafale subsystem for 2028 operational KF21 seems like a downgrade to me.

 

[Madokafc]

Imho, Indonesia should only broadened the Arsenal choices (something South Korean would like to do to and would like to sharing the cost, as it would broadened their market) for KFX/IFX and not mindlessly using hardware and software beside what South Korean used or developed to push down the development cost and timeline. Especially when we are trying so hard to bargain to push the sharing portion of development cost.

 

[R4duga]

indonesian airforce H225M during humanitarian mission of sukabumi flood, the photo were taken from basarnas AS365 dauphin .

bridge point of view .

 

[Stuka Dive]

Looking at the picture of 2 H225 over the river bank, as if i look at 1st air cavalry division of US Army,. It remind sme to a mel gibson's movie : "we were soldier...once and young"
Wondering when we have a full air cavalry division

indonesian airforce H225M during humanitarian mission of sukabumi flood, the photo were taken from basarnas AS365 dauphin .
View attachment 18256

bridge point of view .

 

[Gundala]

Rusian's embassy visiting our KSAU? interesting....

Pererat kerja sama Dubes Rusia temui KSAU di Mabes AU

 

[Umigami]

Rusian's embassy visiting our KSAU? interesting....

Pererat kerja sama Dubes Rusia temui KSAU di Mabes AU

Some source said they switched their offer to Su57. But I don't think that will fruitful. Indonesia need US approval to get their KFX ToT afterall.
(Su35 aja dramanya udah panjang gini, eh mau Su57.... )

Renegotiation will finally come to an end

S. Korea, Indonesia to soon resume fighter jet negotiations: official | Yonhap News Agency

By Choi Soo-hyang SEOUL, April 16 (Yonhap) -- South Korea and Indonesia will soon resume...

m-en.yna.co.kr