Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

[Gary]

Eagle should actually come on top for the rational mind. Hh

 

[Madokafc]

Eagle should actually come on top for the rational mind. Hh

But the one on top is quite a person with rich historical record.

 

[Ravager]

Ok so let's revive the old Formil tradition, who want to take the bet about which one will came and deal? The bet is running naked or not?

1. Dassault Rafale
2. Eurofighter Typhoon
3. F 15 Eagle
4. F 18 Super Hornet

Your bet?

Naaah ... Until obal was start to earnestly doing his nazar i am not going to partake on another nazar party ...

 

[Gundala]

Ok so let's revive the old Formil tradition, who want to take the bet about which one will came and deal? The bet is running naked or not?

1. Dassault Rafale
2. Eurofighter Typhoon
3. F 15 Eagle
4. F 18 Super Hornet

Your bet?

Why the "kuda hitam" a.k.a SU-35 not in the list?

 

[Zapper]

let see rafale + typhoon (50 unit) could be worth around 8-10 billion

It'd be much more expensive. India, Qatar and Egypt's Rafale acquisitions costed around what you stated but for fewer jets but included the weapon package, service/maintenance/spares contracts etc. India infact got the most advanced block among the three but there's no way you could get 50 Rafales for $8-10bn

Also, French would pressurize y'all in inducting French or EU weapons with most of em coming from MBDA

 

[Zapper]

Why the "kuda hitam" a.k.a SU-35 not in the list?

Probably because China already has Su-35. They're damn good at reverse engineering and must've incorporated most of it's tech/capabilities in their J-series. Also, China's PLAAF are already trained against Su-35s, they know the relative strength and weakness since most of it's adversaries operate Su-27s & Su-30s currently

 

[ketombemu]

Pilots and crews can be looked else where. I mean they are even can be hired from mercenaries vendor if we have to. Like if the hot spot on LCS is blown away in the near future

The main concern on top of that is, we need all the superior hardware as soon as we could afford to and those hardware should be popular enough (is coming from western) so many candidates can operates them

 

[morningstar]

Pilots and crews can be looked else where. I mean they are even can be hired from mercenaries vendor if we have to. Like if the hot spot on LCS is blown away in the near future

The main concern on top of that is, we need all the superior hardware as soon as we could afford to and those hardware should be popular enough (is coming from western) so many candidates can operates them

We can get pilot with only at least 2 years of pilot education for high school graduate trough PSDP.

That is the most possible way for us to fulfill that such a massive demand for pilot.

 

[Nilgiri]

LMAO , things got even more interesting
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Ae...S-nod-for-F-15-and-F-18-fighter-jet-purchases
View attachment 8261

I chuckled coz I see @whatintarnation hit a like ...so apt.... What in Tarnation!!!!

 

[Nilgiri]

Btw how much the chance Indonesia can acquired Rafale+Typhoon+F15/F18 at the same time?

Hopefully close to 0 lol...though there is nothing intrinsically stopping this.

I feel Indonesia should pick one platform and stick.

The funding, support and logistics...Indonesia does not want to get saddled here at too much cost. Getting pilots split streamed and flight qualified and current is another issue....because you cannot double dip there and save some long term costs when you have all these platforms.

It is really why all said and done, I still feel Indonesia should go for F-16 V. Whether or not F-35 is on table or off it for later...just go F-16V...since you got F-16 already with pilots well versed in the legacy platform. Then you get more training, weapons and develop more doctrines at scale for it.

If F-35 stays off the table, then commit more funding and bite down on KFX, it should be fine going that route. Its essentially a Korean MIC using NATO architecture....so again stuff kept away as much as can be from Dragon.

 

[Basith90]

He want more than 100 advance model fighter and he want to complete it during his term or at least what have been ordered some have been completed, that's mean he must to bought newly built fighter. He can't count on KFX because the term number two (his term), the best bet is he must ordered two type of fighter from two big companies whose their assembly lines is still going on, that's mean European and US. And he is lobbying hard US, and finally got nod something acceptable according to his standard of advanced model either F18/15, and at the same time he Will ordered around 36-48 Rafale depend on negotiation before the end of this year. Mean at least he need between 40 to 60 more fighter, the best bet is Super Hornet as they are more cheaper than F15 and had more rugged record along with recent model is "a Beast".


P.S.
1. Typhoon only for stop gap measure.

2. And who is the donatur here?

3. Bhineka Tunggal Ika at highest level of implementation

Unity in diversity in the term of fighter plane ?
What can I say then

 

[Nilgiri]

Literally if you don't want the F-16V then the next best thing is to get F-15's. You'd still have a heavy fighter that's double engined and can conduct both ground and maritime strikes while still having access to a common pool of parts and weapons without being a burden on logistics.

There's inherently ZERO reason to get the Typhoon.

Yeah I don't get the typhoon thing at all.

It kind of just get some planes up in the sky kind of thinking.

 

[trishna_amrta]

We can summarize this fighter plane procurement drama with these 2 pictures

 

[Nilgiri]

We can summarize this fighter plane procurement drama with these 2 pictures

I like diversity in lot of areas, but not where it gets to chaos realm.

Order was made from the chaos in the end after all. There was enough matter to prevail over the anti-matter. There was gravity to form the matter into stars. Complete chaos means no meaning, purpose or even existence.

Thus a military need to be well ordered, disciplined and extremely well honed to its most likely threats.

That said I love Indonesia diversity though....culture, food, people, history etc. It may be the only country like India scale on it.

Also may relate to the similar fighter diversity kerfuffle now for sure lol.

 

[Parry Brima]

I made a point in TNI-AL thread that I trust U.S. Pacific fleet to deal with China's carriers and its fighters. The one that worries me is their warships and submarines. They keep building and building to the point that it'll be too many for even Pacific fleet to handle.

So whichever fighters that we'd choose, I hope that we have AShW capability in mind.

 

[morningstar]

We can summarize this fighter plane procurement drama with these 2 pictures

I really can't see any necessary mean of acquiring 2 or 3 different kind of fighter in the same time or almost same time, right now, except the European fighters.

I still can get the logic of buying ex-austria Typhoons and after that buying Rafales, because we need fighters ASAP and we still need other fighters that we actually want (brand new fighters fresh from the factory).

But, F-18 and F-15 in the same time, be kind of "hah... Motivasinya apa?". Me myself, more toward F-18 actually. Even though the engine that are used by F-15 and F-16 are same, but we can use all of the features that exist in F-18, what I mean by that is F-18 using probe and drouge for air refueling and we have the resources to accommodate the air refueling with that system.

And about F-35, based on that Asia Nikkei article, we don't acquire the F-35 because that will ready in AU Arsenal in about 10 years if we buy that now. I think, anybody that said that to Prabowo and make Prabowo think twice about acquiring F-35 right now, is a really someone with a great brain, I assume it's the American that said that to Prabowo.

F-35 is still in its LRIP, nothing bad about that but one reason that is bad, it's still expensive. Lockheed Martin and it's partners are still need more capital (modal) to buy any necessary infrastructures to make F-35 to it's full rate production and still need capital for crazy expensive R&D. And all is back to the basic economy about Supply and Demand. If the demand is high but the supply is low that is mean scarcity (kelangkaan) which mean EXPENSIVE.

 

[Nilgiri]

I made a point in TNI-AL thread that I trust U.S. Pacific fleet to deal with China's carriers and its fighters. The one that worries me is their warships and submarines. They keep building and building to the point that it'll be too many for even Pacific fleet to handle.

So whichever fighters that we'd choose, I hope that we have AShW capability in mind.

Indonesia should go for P-8 here too. They are perfect to deal with submarine interlopers and network will all other assets (like CN-235 existing MPA) for that role. Surface ship too, they are huge force multiplier to deal with those....as PLAN will find it difficult to bring its force multipliers that distance over the SCS sea stretch at that point.

Indonesia need to properly figure out how vertical and horizontal it want to go on sea interdiction basically.

 

[Madokafc]

Hopefully close to 0 lol...though there is nothing intrinsically stopping this.

I feel Indonesia should pick one platform and stick.

The funding, support and logistics...Indonesia does not want to get saddled here at too much cost. Getting pilots split streamed and flight qualified and current is another issue....because you cannot double dip there and save some long term costs when you have all these platforms.

It is really why all said and done, I still feel Indonesia should go for F-16 V. Whether or not F-35 is on table or off it for later...just go F-16V...since you got F-16 already with pilots well versed in the legacy platform. Then you get more training, weapons and develop more doctrines at scale for it.

If F-35 stays off the table, then commit more funding and bite down on KFX, it should be fine going that route. Its essentially a Korean MIC using NATO architecture....so again stuff kept away as much as can be from Dragon.

Honestly, in my very own opinion Indonesia Air Force should take F16 legacy and mix them with F16V to build workhorse number of at least six to ten squadron. Then going all out to replace Flanker with F15 E at least three to four squadron worth fighter as bomb truck and air interdiction fighter. The rest of the need by 2030 above is by taking KFX as learning curve to build and design a modern fighter indigenously. And trying taking order of readily available F35 or the same class of next generation fighter and if condition permit to joint the projects itself (like the Tempest project)

At the same time, Indonesian industry and other stakeholder should take initiative to build and ordering light fighter /LIFT in the class of F/A 50 by securing license producing Turbojet engines and work as light patrol platform with minimum number at least four to six squadron worth of units and increase more.

 

[Gary]

F-15 here means the latest advanced eagle right? Not the 2nd hand AMARG?

 

[Kansel]

Btw how much the chance Indonesia can acquired Rafale+Typhoon+F15/F18 at the same time?

I dont know regarding the chance of F15/18, Heard rafale got locked on