Indonesia Indonesian Air Force, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Udara (TNI-AU)

schuimpjes

Experienced member
Messages
2,523
Reactions
3 1,573
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
we might as well drop the Rafale contracts and switch increasing the 15EX amount
I think Prabowo want to diversifying our weapons sources and France is a good choice, they are more masa bodoh about who used their weapons, even themselves supplying Haftar's force.
northern communist
For me, their communism already dead since Deng Xiaoping was in power. His Shenzhen experiment was not communistic at all. I see them right now as 18th CE like power that never satisfied with their territory.
 

NEKO

Experienced member
Indonesia Correspondent
Messages
3,184
Reactions
4 2,809
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
I believe that currently modern fighter (both single and double engine) mostly able to do intercept mission during day-night and any-weather, I think what make the difference between them would be speed and range.
Having all rounder fighter around the country can be used for intercept and other missions.
 

trishna_amrta

Experienced member
Messages
1,606
Reactions
1,925
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
They asked and negotiated for HARM, more JDAM, Paveway, SDB, LJDAM, and AGM 84H to be used along with that.

They want the weapon package basically including that
Any idea what kind of offset package that is also being pursued? Although I can guess with enough confidence that the valuation will be accounted for, trade balance regardless of its FMS nature will also be an article of priority.
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Any idea what kind of offset package that is also being pursued? Although I can guess with enough confidence that the valuation will be accounted for, trade balance regardless of its FMS nature will also be an article of priority.

Vaccine?
 

Gundala

Well-known member
Messages
415
Reactions
1 506
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
So with the acquisition of 15EX and Rafale it seems that the grand strategy AU chose will go towards multirole-capable with A2/AD functions it seems, basically an aircraft that can do everything through modifying its weapon suites to perform two or more functions in one sortie
Yea, pretty much
If as such would the acquisition of Rafale be redundant since both are pretty much capable, we might as well drop the Rafale contracts and switch increasing the 15EX amount
There are lot of things to consider regarding what you said. From diversification, geopolitics, LCC/Life Cycle Cost, munitions avaiability, tot, etc. Each platform has its own strength and weakness, it all come back to the doctrine and strategic plan of TNI AU. For instance: they prolly need only 2 SKA of heavy fighter to do the punching, another 6 SKA medium fighter to be the second linner, identifiying unknown object, recon, in short by being the workhorse. Add few more LCA/LIFT SKA for trainer and doing the "tempur taktis duty". But if I could only choose one platform from those two, I will definetly go with more Rafale.
I hope Rafale's acquisition will be for the replacement of F5 Tiger's function since we do lack long-range air superiority/interceptor focused platform, while also retaining their capability to perform ground support function
Rafale can do the job just fine, specially with its supercruise capability. Again the air superiority and specially interceptor concept is dying, those concepts comes from cold war era. With today SAM, Ballistic missiles, cruise missiles technology and so forth it diminish the need for air fighter to carry their bomb to the intended target directly. Stealth, avionics, EW technology also slowly replacing the need for a fighter to have good manuverability. Todays game is about SEAD/DEAD which going to need supperior stealth/Low Observable platfowm and precission capability.
 

schuimpjes

Experienced member
Messages
2,523
Reactions
3 1,573
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Rafale can do the job just fine, specially with its supercruise capability. Again the air superiority and specially interceptor concept is dying, those concepts comes from cold war era. With today SAM, Ballistic missiles, cruise missiles technology and so forth it diminish the need for air fighter to carry their bomb to the intended target directly.
But, do we will have standoff missiles? That's the question. SCALP EG is the priority if we want to have standoff capability, JASSM and/or LRASM is the second since US is more alot.
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
217401277_1135261650301305_4889063721423512887_n.jpg
 

FPXAllen

Contributor
Indonesia Correspondent
Messages
1,126
Reactions
4 1,702
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
If as such would the acquisition of Rafale be redundant since both are pretty much capable, we might as well drop the Rafale contracts and switch increasing the 15EX amount
The thing is, in our case redundancy is often preferred rather than having to depend to only one source of weapon provider. Of course this comes with the risk of logistical nightmare, and - as many other have said - that we've already become like showroom for military equipment from various countries.

Now speaking about Rafale vis a vis F-15EX, while the former may as just capable as the latter in most cases, but we also have to consider that there's only so much a pilot can do in a single seater fighter while the addition of weapon system officer in a two seater fighter means that there's another set of eyes, brain and awareness which can bear more workloads as a whole. Also, with the future direction of manned-unmanned teaming in aerial warfare, it's certainly easier for two seater fighter to let the WSO control the drones rather than giving the pilot the task to do so.

Now if it sounds like I'm dissing the Rafale, that's not the point I'm trying to make. With all the benefits of F-15EX I mentioned above, it's still uncertain if we'll get the complete package or if we'll only allowed to buy the plane minus its advanced EW capabilities. While we still have the option to equip it with another EW suite from another maker but when it comes to that, Rafale EW suite will certainly becomes our main go to solution for the purpose.

That said, the best case scenario is that we'll also have the complete package for the F-15EX. If that's how it will turn out then we'll have two different aircraft with two different advanced EW capabilities which can really become our ace assets in future combat against a strong adversary.
 

RajaSultanKing

Active member
Messages
85
Reactions
62
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
That said, the best case scenario is that we'll also have the complete package for the F-15EX. If that's how it will turn out then we'll have two different aircraft with two different advanced EW capabilities which can really become our ace assets in future combat against a strong adversary.

I just do hope that it won't be the same with our F-16 Block 30/32 being renamed to Block 52ID, that would be hilarious seeing us receiving 15SG/J/K model but renamed to either 15ID or 15EXID lol

There are lot of things to consider regarding what you said. From diversification, geopolitics, LCC/Life Cycle Cost, munitions avaiability, tot, etc. Each platform has its own strength and weakness, it all come back to the doctrine and strategic plan of TNI AU. For instance: they prolly need only 2 SKA of heavy fighter to do the punching, another 6 SKA medium fighter to be the second linner, identifiying unknown object, recon, in short by being the workhorse. Add few more LCA/LIFT SKA for trainer and doing the "tempur taktis duty". But if I could only choose one platform from those two, I will definetly go with more Rafale.

I do agree, and as FPXAllen said, redundancy and logistical nightmare is pretty much our tradition, then again putting eggs in one basket is not the best idea to go

Its pretty much a double edge sword in our case basically
 

Gundala

Well-known member
Messages
415
Reactions
1 506
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
The thing is, in our case redundancy is often preferred rather than having to depend to only one source of weapon provider. Of course this comes with the risk of logistical nightmare, and - as many other have said - that we've already become like showroom for military equipment from various countries.
Well if we take a look from ORBA era the possession of F5E Tiger, A4 Skyhawk continued by F16+Hawk pretty much explain the roadmap. Air Supperioriy and Tempur Taktis is being taken and try to be implemented in conjunction to the development of Aerospace industry to shapen up Nurtanio at that time. Those Hawks and F16 numbers were going to be acquired in large numbers. I like the way they draw and execute the map. The hard infrastructure was build, the soft infrastucture/Human resource was build (Habibie scholarship program) But then economic crisis & "Democracy" came in.... 😁

Then come SBY era: Military embargo forced us to get closer to Russia but sialnya at that time Russia was also in trouble from USSR disband making the supply chain almost impossible as now their factory was in "others" possession. But stil we linger on, the memory of US embargo was too fresh for us to get closer again to US. The turnover was when the Elang Gurun program successfully overtaking the plan to add some more Sukhoi. On his period we are trying to find military partner we can rely on too, and eagerly unwilling to rely solely to US military equipment. The reality there isnt much choice, European products still using US made products so the diversity we looking at would be vague so we stick to Russia for alternative.

Then comes JKW era where Tiongkok is starting to show their teeth and US starting to get nervous. Tiongkok starting be more aggresive in pursuing their national interest. On the other hand Thrump was in charge with the America first policy and also being aggresive in pursuing their national interest pissing everyone around including us. Our AU still dont want to change course from their already established infrastructure of F16 & Sukhoi, but geopolitics dictate differently. But now comes French which was also pissed by the Thrump administration and swear to try to take all US made products from their military productions line. Time continues, then here comes 08 who some said fancy French made military products. The timing is perfect..... 😁

Now I wrote this long threat to remind us that we once have a good Military Jet fighter planning nicely in-line with the road map of Aerospace Industry. But strings of events divert us in a way to the point we are today. What I see today is our turning point to plan and project our future forces posture to be in line with our foreign policy and geopolitics situation for decades to come. We must be ready and move fast to expose our military personel with the latest technology, its time we invest in our soft infratructure and at the same time building the hard infrastructure. Tomorrow plan is prolly going to be French for diversification and geopolitics, still getting US made Fighter but refuse to hear their lips service and ask for their commitment by pushing them to deliver F15X. Trade more to Tiongkok for our economic development program. This is the transition era, so yeah it will look like a showroom, it that might not be the case since there are reasons and planning behind it. But then Covid comes in....... 😁:LOL: THE END :eek:
 

FoodSoldier

Active member
Messages
67
Reactions
93
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
TNI AU aims to make Rafale with F-15EX as a combo fighters, flying in pair formation. This particular pairing could be an effective way to counter balance other regional powerhouses who already operate 5 th gen fighter who has better EW capabilities.

Rafale is known for its ‘quasi stealth’ capability, close to the 5th gen fighter such as F-35 and J-20. It will act as frontliner to match F-35/J-20's electronic warfare (EW) and network centric capabilities, or it will act to detect enemies’ long range SAM position or surface vessel position. Rafale’s SPECTRA is quite formidable system that can do the job well.

Meanwhile, F-15EX (with less stealth/EW capabilities) will play a supporting role for the Rafale as a missile carrier/bomb truck behind the Rafale formation. F-15 EX can carry up to 20 missiles (i.e. 20 BVR missiles) that can deliver the heavyweight punch to destroy as many enemy fighters (or ground asset) as possible from beyond visual range by using relaying data from Rafale’s radar. In order to do this, TNI-AU will need to ensure that Rafale system ‘can communicate’ with F-15EX system (which I believe they can).

This combination enables TNI-AU to maintain its relevance and to buying time before getting their hand on a true 5th gen fighter.

This infographic illustrates (in part) what TNI-AU have in mind:

5F49BDE8-873C-498F-A39C-34C267EEB51C.jpeg
 

Madokafc

Experienced member
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
5,913
Reactions
4 10,053
Nation of residence
Indonesia
Nation of origin
Indonesia
Pairing long legs Combo Rafale and F 15 EX both with long range arm is deterrence to the enemy as most of our Border is ocean and they need Refueling tanker assets to do the jobs and flying AEW assets to Made sure of air command control, thus with data Linked and feedback by our and allies assets it is very possible to intercept enemies flight formation before they are coming into our own soil
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom