Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Jagdflieger]

Anything can be done if the required numbers are there. In case of an 6x6 or 8x8 vehicle with up to a 105mm cannon one would need to procure at least 200 units.
For a tracked AFV the figure lies at around 300+
So as you know, it all depends on the feasibility of required numbers and the respective budget.

 

[FPXAllen]

Anything can be done if the required numbers are there. In case of an 6x6 or 8x8 vehicle with up to a 105mm cannon one would need to procure at least 200 units.
For a tracked AFV the figure lies at around 300+
So as you know, it all depends on the feasibility of required numbers and the respective budget.

Indeed. That's why I wrote that it was just my wild ideas.

We even still don't know whether the Harimau tank will be produced in sufficiently large number to replace hundreds of obsolete AMX-13 tanks, and even if it will, until when?

Oh well...

 

[Jagdflieger]

Well if it comes down to money, numbers needed and weapons punch - my favorite for South-East-Asia would still be the German "Wiesel"

 

[Gary]

Well if it comes down to money, numbers needed and weapons punch - my favorite for South-East-Asia would still be the German "Wiesel"

Indonesian army once trialed this.

Rheinmetall Wiesel - Ditawarkan Sejak Puluhan Tahun Untuk TNI

Di sela-sela keriuhan Indo Defence 2014, tepatnya di booth Rheinmetall terselip sosok ranpur unik dengan warna loreng gelap. Ranpur ini masuk golongan beroda rantai (tank), namun ukurannya super mini alias imut, bahkan lebih kecil ketimbang ukuran tank ringan (light tank) yang populer di TNI AD...

www.indomiliter.com

I think what we need is something with 30-35mm gun as primary armament. 20mm wont cut it anymore

 

[Jagdflieger]

Indonesian army once trialed this.

Rheinmetall Wiesel - Ditawarkan Sejak Puluhan Tahun Untuk TNI

Di sela-sela keriuhan Indo Defence 2014, tepatnya di booth Rheinmetall terselip sosok ranpur unik dengan warna loreng gelap. Ranpur ini masuk golongan beroda rantai (tank), namun ukurannya super mini alias imut, bahkan lebih kecil ketimbang ukuran tank ringan (light tank) yang populer di TNI AD...

www.indomiliter.com

I think what we need is something with 30-35mm gun as primary armament. 20mm wont cut it anymore

Nice photos
Yes it was actually trialed in several SEA countries - and was very popular amongst the tankies and Infantry. But somehow certain people/governments do prefer - "big" for mainly prestige reasons.
Actually the 2cm double fed cannon packs a hell of a punch with HE and Tungsten AP munition. (same ammo available for the Marder) No doubt a 3cm can do the job better especially in regards to AHED ammo - there are prototypes of the Wiesel II with 3cm cannons. And the Wiesel 90mm mortar carrier is a hell of an artillery
vehicle.

 

[Ravager]

Just standarized our future IFV canon into 35 mm . So , we would have a reason to produce those munition in house along with the subsequent variants .

 

[Gary]

Nice photos
Yes it was actually trialed in several SEA countries - and was very popular amongst the tankies and Infantry. But somehow certain people/governments do prefer - "big" for mainly prestige reasons.
Actually the 2cm double fed cannon packs a hell of a punch with HE and Tungsten AP munition. (same ammo available for the Marder) No doubt a 3cm can do the job better especially in regards to AHED ammo - there are prototypes of the Wiesel II with 3cm cannons. And the Wiesel 90mm mortar carrier is a hell of an artillery
vehicle.

Wiesel would be perfect for the air force airborne troop (PASKHAS), currently they're using only armored cars with RCWS. For the army a traditional IFV would suit the job better, because Wiesel can't carry that much troop inside + it being tiny doesn't satisfy the range for an army long range assault operation.

btw, its good if we add more Marders while we wait for a Kaplan IFV (if there's ever one). 20x139mm munition are still plentiful, being used by both the army and navy.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Wiesel would be perfect for the air force airborne troop (PASKHAS), currently they're using only armored cars with RCWS. For the army a traditional IFV would suit the job better, because Wiesel can't carry that much troop inside + it being tiny doesn't satisfy the range for an army long range assault operation.

btw, its good if we add more Marders while we wait for a Kaplan IFV (if there's ever one). 20x139mm munition are still plentiful, being used by both the army and navy.

You are certainly right - especially in view of "traditional" (I am trying to avoid the term "outdated") army fielded concepts.
The new sometimes termed 2000 Soldier concept - incorporates a Tac. team of 5-6 men (IdZ-ES concept) - hence the reduction in modern AFV compartment sizes.
Realized and fielded already with e.g. the Bundeswehr Puma AFV.
Unfortunately Germany doesn't have the political will ($) to actually place/field realistic numbers for that AFV, and the ones that are in service face serious technical and reliability issues.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Below is a photo of my Marder-unit in 1985 during a night-firing exercise

 

[Stuka Dive]

Indonesian army once trialed this.

Rheinmetall Wiesel - Ditawarkan Sejak Puluhan Tahun Untuk TNI

Di sela-sela keriuhan Indo Defence 2014, tepatnya di booth Rheinmetall terselip sosok ranpur unik dengan warna loreng gelap. Ranpur ini masuk golongan beroda rantai (tank), namun ukurannya super mini alias imut, bahkan lebih kecil ketimbang ukuran tank ringan (light tank) yang populer di TNI AD...

www.indomiliter.com

I think what we need is something with 30-35mm gun as primary armament. 20mm wont cut it anymore

These Wiesel families can be deployed by parachute from cargo plane, right? to accompany the storming strike of airborne paratroopers

 

[Gary]

You are certainly right - especially in view of "traditional" (I am trying to avoid the term "outdated") army fielded concepts.
The new sometimes termed 2000 Soldier concept - incorporates a Tac. team of 5-6 men (IdZ-ES concept) - hence the reduction in modern AFV compartment sizes.
Realized and fielded already with e.g. the Bundeswehr Puma AFV.
Unfortunately Germany doesn't have the political will ($) to actually place/field realistic numbers for that AFV, and the ones that are in service face serious technical and reliability issues.

Militaries are traditional by design (militaries rarely like to adopt changes), and yes, the Indonesian army is even more traditional hehe, I am aware of the German Infanterist der Zukunft program, yes armies squad are getting smaller due to advances in technology, interconnectivity etc. The thing is the budget would not allow us to equip our army to be be another IdZ level soldier. Not to mention our squad is lesser armed and less sophisticated than what a contemporary US or European squad is. So we need raw mass to achieve what contemporary NATO militaries could with lesser soldier.

Indonesian army main strike unit (KOSTRAD) is at best what a European army is in the 80s. We have much to catch up.

These Wiesel families can be deployed by parachute from cargo plane, right? to accompany the storming strike of airborne paratroopers

Even by helicopters like the CH-47.

 

[Jagdflieger]

These Wiesel families can be deployed by parachute from cargo plane, right? to accompany the storming strike of airborne paratroopers

Test have been made with parachute retro systems - but the practical deployment is via the old CH-53 (2 units per Helicopter) and in future via this "ugly" (I really dislike that Helo) CH-47F Chinook.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Indonesian army main strike unit (KOSTRAD) is at best what a European army is in the 80s. We have much to catch up

yes - but at least Indonesia is taking its military/defense serious - unlike e.g. Malaysia (just stuffing some peoples pockets).

 

[NEKO]

Below is a photo of my Marder-unit in 1985 during a night-firing exercise

How does marder is deployed by Germany? Move fast together with Leo and do Blietzkrieg style?

 

[Jagdflieger]

How does marder is deployed by Germany? Move fast together with Leo and do Blietzkrieg style?

Well If I understand your question correctly:

The army is an integrated part in combined weapons strategy/tactics.
So individual recon teams (partially from Marders or Fenneks) are scouting ahead, MBT's move in conjunction with Marders - MBT's stop/Marder goes a 100-200m ahead crew stays and troops bail out and take positions if enemy forces are detected, in order for the MBT's to move on. In between Gepard's and Rolands (good old times) now Ozelots, take position and artillery moves in or deploys - and so on.
Urban warfare follows a different procedure

 

[NEKO]

Gepard's

SPAAG somehow become relevant again now, to deal against cheap small reconnaissance drone and combat drone.

 

[Jagdflieger]

SPAAG somehow become relevant again now, to deal against cheap small reconnaissance drone and combat drone.

Yes - the Russian Terminator is IMO actually the most formidable AFV in that aspect.

 

[NEKO]

Yes - the Russian Terminator is IMO actually the most formidable AFV in that aspect.

I don't think it is good against air target, especially drones.

 

[Jagdflieger]

I don't think it is good against air target, especially drones.

Maybe if you can see it in weapon trials - you might think differently
Off course an upgraded Gepard (which the Bundeswehr doesn't have) - would be my first choice - independent of its considerable costs and maintenance issues

And during exercises the Gepard due to its considerable overweight was prone to get stuck in muddied fields and we usually required four 8x8 trucks to get them out

 

[FPXAllen]

Unfortunately Germany doesn't have the political will ($) to actually place/field realistic numbers for that AFV, and the ones that are in service face serious technical and reliability issues.

Even with the recent and dramatic increase of budget for the Bundeswehr?

Speaking of which, in terms of military hardware, can you tell us about what are the things that will be prioritized in the short term with the increased defense spending?

Below is a photo of my Marder-unit in 1985 during a night-firing exercise

Reforger 1985?

Anyway, sorry for being off topic, but I just bought and downloaded a PC game a few days before that I used to play years ago called "World in Conflict". The setting was Cold-war era Europe featuring both NATO and Warsaw Pact viewpoints and oh boy, it really brings back a lot of memories. Now I actually communicating with someone who was actually part of it in real life.

I'm glad to have a chance to talk with a (former?) member of the German armed forces here. To be honest, I had only few chances to talk with the Germans, and those were always during defense shows both in Indonesia and abroad. Some were hard to approach and to talk with especially during Indo defense in Jakarta - no wonder, though, since I believe it's hard to adjust with the temperature and humidity of the tropics if they're only coming for a few days.

But on other occassions, I find them very friendly and communicative. Hope to meet more of them in the future