Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Lordimperator]

Western European countries are starting to ramp up their militaries, there won't be much chance for another Leo 2 garage sale if ever.

How about K2 like the Poland did? If the Euro industries focused for their own militaries. Anyway, how long before Altay went mass produced after getting Korean engine?

 

[Umigami]

Nah, from Pindad news

PT. Pindad (Persero) - Pindad Tandatangani MoU Terkait Munisi Dengan Nexter Group

pindad.com

But the one that goal in eurosatory is still 120mm. Maybe later for 105mm if there are more Harimau.

 

[FPXAllen]

How about K2 like the Poland did? If the Euro industries focused for their own militaries. Anyway, how long before Altay went mass produced after getting Korean engine?

K2 or Altay may be better although they will be a lot more expensive, I reckon. The latter will probably enter mass production next year.

 

[FPXAllen]

Erm speaking about MBT, considering that Japan has recently loosen their arms export restriction, and that it is now offering to assist the Philippines to build their own defense industry, their Type 10 MBT might be worth to add as another possible candidate as well.

Japan offers strategic aid to PH

MANILA, Philippines — Japan has offered to assist the Philippines develop its own military-industrial complex via strategic technology transfers and outright equipment donations, a source at the

newsinfo.inquirer.net

 

[Lordimperator]

105mm if there are more Harimau

Then it would take a long time before the deal finalized, if we only ordered 18 units

 

[Umigami]

Without knowing the full extent of that 'leak', while I do see the the purpose of having at least one MBT division in each Indonesian major islands, it's hard to really understand why we should acquire MBTs from another country.

Chance for another rounds of 'shopping', perhaps? /s

While we're at it, how about prioritizing to expand Pindad's production facility and finalize a contract to acquire a large number of Harimau so they can make more of it in the shortest amount of time instead? I think a 4:1 ratio of modern medium tank to MBT will be ideal for us.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537337484086226949

 

[FPXAllen]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1537337484086226949

It didn't really answer why we should acquire other than Leopard 2 MBTs.

Anyway, if we use the provided metrics as a benchmark, our current total strength of MBT is still less than one-third of the minimum amount required. Can you imagine the whole mess if, say, the army decides to acquire 100 Leclerc with another 100 K2? Granted, our TNI has already been like a showroom for God knows how long, but to add more complexity to the already overburdened logistics is simply ridiculous.

If they really want to expand our capability in this regard, they can either: a. Prioritize Harimau acquisition to several hundred first or, b. Do not "ngeteng". Want another MBT than Leo 2? Fine, as long as we put an order of at least 300 MBTs at once.

By that, not only that we can lessen the logistical impact compared to earlier scenario (although probably not that much), but we can negotiate for a "true" ToT and/or joint production as well.

 

[Jagdflieger]

ahh, I forgot this, that Stukas with their bombs and freckin 37mm cannon are scary hell to disable tanks and to keep adversaries duck down. today we can have it in air cavalry mode.


I think they misplace the aircraft and missile intended to do wild weasel mission.

I don't want to unnecessarily hack, or smart-talk onto your post - but air cavalry or Stuka's do not provide air-superiority.
As for Blitzkrieg or e.g. Operation Desert-Storm the fighters, cruise-missiles/missiles and bombers take out the air-defense and and the adversaries air-force. Preferably as in Blitzkrieg or ODS 70-80% of the enemies aircraft are destroyed on the ground.

Therefore air-superiority is achieved - only then the ground forces supported by e.g. Stuka's and the rest of the Luftwaffe or air-cavalry (rather ATH) incl. the airforce assets move in. To ensure minimal losses on one's own side and to defeat the enemy with certainty.

Therefore in regards to the heavy artillery or MBT Indonesian discussion IMO, try to get a capable air-force and missile-force first

 

[Lordimperator]

IMO, try to get a capable air-force and missile-force first

Well in this case i am gratefull with the latest Indo MinDef to acquire sophisticated Aircraft from the available options, such as Rafale.

Missile force? MLRS? Tactical Ballistic?

 

[FPXAllen]

Therefore in regards to the heavy artillery or MBT Indonesian discussion IMO, try to get a capable air-force and missile-force first

One of the downsides of having always prioritized the Army in an archipelagic country at least until the last 20 years or so.

Many people here are still barking whenever they see the proposed budget for aircraft acquisition especially combat types for TNI-AU. Some even still have the mindset of "guerilla warfare is our ultimate weapon" by pointing out that even major powers like the British, Soviet Union and the US can not defeat Afghan guerillas. Heck, some even still think that we can just throw thousand upon thousand of able-bodied men to the frontlines as if the enemies capable to invade us do not have cluster or thermobaric bombs - much less nuclear - in their arsenal.

Missile force? MLRS? Tactical Ballistic?

All kind of them: AAM, SAM, cruise, tactical ballistic, et cetera.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Well in this case i am gratefull with the latest Indo MinDef to acquire sophisticated Aircraft from the available options, such as Rafale.

Missile force? MLRS? Tactical Ballistic?

More like Cruise-missiles and BVR - as for the fighter force to be considered effective and maintainable Indonesia would need at least 14-18 squadrons and not consisting of more then 2 types. Okay so a Rafale could be considered as a start in the right direction.

 

[Lordimperator]

AAM, SAM, cruise, tactical ballistic, et cetera.

Let see: Khan TBM from Turkiye, SAM : any rumour? KM Sam Korean or Turkish Hisar?

 

[NEKO]

Erm speaking about MBT, considering that Japan has recently loosen their arms export restriction, and that it is now offering to assist the Philippines to build their own defense industry, their Type 10 MBT might be worth to add as another possible candidate as well.

Japan offers strategic aid to PH

MANILA, Philippines — Japan has offered to assist the Philippines develop its own military-industrial complex via strategic technology transfers and outright equipment donations, a source at the

newsinfo.inquirer.net

I wonder to what extents they are willing to offer assistance to Philippine, and I think maybe they are willing to offer more with us considering many factors.

 

[Lordimperator]

Is it true Harimau MT cost $7 mil each?

 

[Umigami]

Is it true Harimau MT cost $7 mil each?

2019 contract: US$ 20 mil for 18 units.
So around 1.1 mil each.

 

[FPXAllen]

for the fighter force to be considered effective and maintainable Indonesia would need at least 14-18 squadrons

Not too far off from my own calculation some years back. It's unscientific, but I did that by comparing the airspace area per number of combat aircraft between ASEAN nations and found that Indonesia is severely lacking since an Indonesian combat aircraft has to cover much more airspace compared to, say, Vietnam.

IIRC, I've got around 250-300 combat aircraft as the real minimum essential number to be able to effectively cover Indonesian airspace.

and not consisting of more then 2 types

...oops.

Okay so a Rafale could be considered as a start in the right direction.

Hopefully.

Let see: Khan TBM from Turkiye, SAM : any rumour? KM Sam Korean or Turkish Hisar?

No other rumors yet. But I have a hunch that SAMP/T Aster 30 will be chosen - don't ask me why.

I wonder to what extents they are willing to offer assistance to Philippine, and I think maybe they are willing to offer more with us considering many factors.

This will answer your question:

"Tokyo is offering to help Manila develop its own armored vehicles, ammunition and satellites, among others, through a collaboration between and among Japanese and Philippine companies, the source said."

As for us, it's probably a bit tricky for them since they're likely don't want to appear too obvious and since we already have our own defense industries up and running albeit with, well, you know...

 

[FPXAllen]

Is it true Harimau MT cost $7 mil each?

2019 contract: US$ 20 mil for 18 units.
So around 1.1 mil each.

1.1 mil each? Come on guys, we can arrange a donation to finance more of them.

I'll start with my ceban. Who's next?

 

[Lordimperator]

No other rumors yet. But I have a hunch that SAMP/T Aster 30 will be chosen - don't ask me why.

Yes please

 

[Umigami]

Want more MBT but too hard to get support?
How about get this turret:

Squeeze it inside Harimau hull and call it "MBT anak bangsa".

 

[Lordimperator]

Want more MBT but too hard to get support?
How about get this turret:

Squeeze it inside Harimau hull and call it "MBT anak bangsa".

Hitfact with 120mm high pressure, is it using the ammo with Nato 120mm