Indonesia Indonesian Army,Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Darat (TNI-AD)

[Captain Wales]

remember OPM were declare Terrorist by the government not separatist movement, the operation probably mirror that of Poso (with a bit more bang) not Aceh 20 years ago.
much of the operation going to be handle by the police just like poso with TNI as support element.
CMIIW

 

[trishna_amrta]

i would rather loved to see our soldiers fully equipped with grenade launcher

BERAAAAT ooi!i lu kira peluncur granat + pelor nya enteng apa

since the bullet cant pass through woods,

That what green tip (barrier free) are for

 

[BBOn]

Yes i hope so, that would be nice solution, but what else we can offer to them,

-Make Papua as a special region -check

-Make Papua administratively special (there are some exclusively rules or law that only existed on eastern region of Indonesia especially in Papua in order to "meringankan" such as the taxes, import rules, extra quota for recruited soldier, same prices with price in Java for any basic goods ((fuel, foods, building material and such)) -check

-Build many infrastructure in Papua -check (but the OPM attacks some of it)

And etc, you may add it yourself and correct me if im wrong

The Gov't really works really hard for Papua, but there are still some of ,i would say "oknum", they just messing around with the states, not to mention person such as Benny Wenda, Veronica Koman and the others, those people spreading wrong information, and acted like they were victim of it, and what a luck they are overseas now,

I do really hopes that the Papuan problem can be solved with discussion and diplomatically, but if there's still people using a gun to fight a word, we should fight them back

*edit, about that OPM to be a parties i would disagree with that, tadi ga ngeh ada bagian itu

Gun diplomacy and development. The right answer for papua problem.
If we focus only in development, then we give chance to KKB to go bigger. If we instead choose military operation than there is might be more protest from locals.
The government should try to figure out how to develop papua with "jalan lintas" + perkebunan settlements style.
It work to gathering people from highlander to start new life joining the community. By doing this we can reduce the KKB opportunities to survive in papua environmental. It is a same case when a tiger enter the perkebunan settlement. All people dont like it and all people will joining the strength to drive it out. This maybe silly idea. But, it work in Sumatera when dutch starting the plantation of tobacco and rubber.

 

[this is crunch]

BERAAAAT ooi!i lu kira peluncur granat + pelor nya enteng apa

monmaap pa ga ngeh kalo bakal seberat itu, apalagi rute nya rute hiking

 

[BBOn]

i would rather loved to see our soldiers fully equipped with grenade launcher, since the bullet cant pass through woods, ledakan yang diarahkan dan diatur sedemikian rupa would have a greater effect for them

Meh, Why not combine both. By air and land. Just beng beng beng and kaboom them. Nevermind about money. Dumb bom, rocket, grenade launcher, mortar is cheap thing. Thats will be good too, isnt? What I am try to say is massive and loud thing to put them under stress condition so our pathfinder can playing cat and and mouse with them with the baddest thing the deserve. Imagene, is it not fun to play with exhausted,stressed, insomnia criminal

I wonder DITBENGAD and AIR cavalry can provide more helo for dropping and support in the operation, I mean in really massive deployment kind of operation black hawk down

 

[Captain Wales]

Meh, Why not combine both. By air and land. Just beng beng beng and kaboom them. Nevermind about money. Dumb bom, rocket, grenade launcher, mortar is cheap thing. Thats will be good too, isnt? What I am try to say is massive and loud thing to put them under stress condition so our pathfinder can playing cat and and mouse with them with the baddest thing the deserve. Imagene, is it not fun to play with exhausted,stressed, insomnia criminal

I wonder DITBENGAD and AIR cavalry can provide more helo for dropping and support in the operation, I mean in really massive deployment kind of operation black hawk down

what i can see in this operation probably going to mirror poso but with more support from TNI.

OPM were declared terrorist by the government not separatist movement and because of that operation probably going to be handle by POLRI not TNI. so no massive movement like we see on Aceh.
CMIIW

 

[schuimpjes]

IF we do that then we open a can of worm that no one can close again for the whole country. There will be no more unified Nusantara under Sang Dwi Warna, instead you get heavily Balkanized Nusantara

Ok... My main reason of let them make their own party is actually just to disarm them, done. The point is disarmament and stop the unproductive bloodshed that they will never win.

I don't know what are other alternatives than let them make their own party, maybe give them few percent of Grasberg mine maybe, as what Ali Moertopo did, gave few percent of Pertamina Jateng (i suspect Cepu) to ex-DI/TII that want to stop their act. You can say, we bribed them.

 

[Ravager]

The most effective is transmigration . Without some mixed tribe for a catalyst the papuan are wholly united in their ignorance .
Make the setlement and yet heavily fortified it . And add some written rule while at it... For one TNI/Police fall as a victim we should seek 3 OPM member as the equalizer .
Whatever the cost . Deep patrol sniping , hiding hut bombardment , silent assasination on their key target ...you name it !
Until we could plant some real fear into them they would never take as an equal to be negotiated with .
And put some carrot in that measures too ...

*It should be unwritten rule ....

 

[BBOn]

Ok... My main reason of let them make their own party is actually just to disarm them, done. The point is disarmament and stop the unproductive bloodshed that they will never win.

I don't know what are other alternatives than let them make their own party, maybe give them few percent of Grasberg mine maybe, as what Ali Moertopo did, gave few percent of Pertamina Jateng (i suspect Cepu) to ex-DI/TII that want to stop their act. You can say, we bribed them.

From Bullets to Ballots. The Terroris, they are part of local people. they have eyes and ears in most closest place we dont think.
We cant denied, their goal is to be independent from us, Their political motive is to be independent form us. Thats the important point. by giving them a chance to form a party that can be used as kaderisasi. what do you think will happen in the few years? Are you want them to become Turkey PKK. Well then, if that is the chase we just need to do the same thing what Turkey did to PKK. But, in this case with more of attention from international community ( the thing we hate a lot) Since we face a Party that have possibility to reach more than 1000 member ( dont ask me where the number come from, many young papuan can easily get provoked )

More people to join them more close them to reach their goal. Vox populi Vox dei. Suara rakyat, suara Tuhan. Suara mayoritas, if it is going to the suara mayoritas level, then we can say good bye to papua because I believe any nation who have their motive on papua will have smirk on their face.

 

[schuimpjes]

From Bullets to Ballots. The Terroris, they are part of local people. they have eyes and ears in most closest place we dont think.
We cant denied, their goal is to be independent from us, Their political motive is to be independent form us. Thats the important point. by giving them a chance to form a party that can be used as kaderisasi. what do you think will happen in the few years? Are you want them to become Turkey PKK. Well then, if that is the chase we just need to do the same thing what Turkey did to PKK.But, in this case with more of attention from international community ( the thing we hate a lot) Since we face a Party that have possibility to reach more than 1000 member ( dont ask me where the number come from, many young papuan can easily get provoked )

More people to join them more close them to reach their goal. Vox populi Vox dei. Suara rakyat, suara Tuhan. Suara mayoritas, if it is going to the suara mayoritas level, then we can say good bye to papua because I believe any nation who have their motive on papua will have smirk on their face.

Counter-Insurgency is not a joke, it could be a long effort even kind of have a sense of endless things to do. Actually, I'm not only suggesting for they make a party, but also any other alternatives to disarm them.

We now see the Congolese start to disarm the rebels by exchange the rebel to be integrated to the military, I know Congolese way are way too far for us, but my point here is to disarm them however is that. This "however is that" is the things that we can know by talking to them.

That's why I also write about the possibility to disarm them by "bribe" them. Good for international businesses to come, no violence, no controversy, their bigfish are "normalized", the most important the pro-OPM can't use their favorite narratives of Human Rights anymore.

Are you want them to become Turkey PKK. Well then, if that is the chase we just need to do the same thing what Turkey did to PKK.

It is not only PKK to be the example for this, looks like you are too much looking at the Turkish threads. I think you are someone that already here for a quite long time, older than March this year, correct me if I'm wrong. We have peaceful, democratic, unarmed Partai Aceh as an example.

And also the point that I'm talking about here is to disarm, so, they can't get arms after the deal was made.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Ok... My main reason of let them make their own party is actually just to disarm them, done. The point is disarmament and stop the unproductive bloodshed that they will never win.

I don't know what are other alternatives than let them make their own party, maybe give them few percent of Grasberg mine maybe, as what Ali Moertopo did, gave few percent of Pertamina Jateng (i suspect Cepu) to ex-DI/TII that want to stop their act. You can say, we bribed them.

Strength of arms (as in guns) is merely a tool. One type of tool out of many. Once they are disarmed, they can always switch gear using their political party & political autonomy as a vehicle for their original agenda. The condition in Papua isn't the same as Aceh

 

[Van Kravchenko]

can't wait for super tucano or AD air cavalry to buzzing around above their head .
View attachment 19333

If only you can locate their actual possition, it dosent worth any effort to field SuTuc or Attack helos to hunt guerillas rrbel in small number.
Yet, the mountainous region of papua poses as another enemy to face before and while hunt for millitia.

Better field MALE UAV, put small calibre dumb bomb and let em hunt. But still evel for cheap Chinese C-UAV weaponery its still not worth except to hunt down OPM Top Leader.

Cheap and Capable C-UAV combine with infantry is the key solution to push OPM with power.

 

[BBOn]

Counter-Insurgency is not a joke, it could be a long effort even kind of have a sense of endless things to do. Actually, I'm not only suggesting for they make a party, but also any other alternatives to disarm them.

We now see the Congolese start to disarm the rebels by exchange the rebel to be integrated to the military, I know Congolese way are way too far for us, but my point here is to disarm them however is that. This "however is that" is the things that we can know by talking to them.

That's why I also write about the possibility to disarm them by "bribe" them. Good for international businesses to come, no violence, no controversy, their bigfish are "normalized", the most important the pro-OPM can't use their favorite narratives of Human Rights anymore.

It is not only PKK to be the example for this, looks like you are too much looking at the Turkish threads. I think you are someone that already here for a quite long time, older than March this year, correct me if I'm wrong. We have peaceful, democratic, unarmed Partai Aceh as an example.

And also the point that I'm talking about here is to disarm, so, they can't get arms after the deal was made.

So, you actually doesnt understand the situations.
Benny wenda is one thing and KKB is another thing. Both this actor have different approaches to reach their goal. Benny using politics as his weapon and KKB use guns. The two dont get along with each other.
So, let say you give benny wenda a chance to form local party then how you deal with kkb who still refuse the mediation since independent is harga mati for them? This KKB if you trace their history, you will find they are exist long time a go even before papua join our country. Starting from a battalion that knowed by papua infantry battalion. which has since been disbanded has caused chaos in papua. In other words this revolt is not new. Way older than modern kkb that we know by now.
why do you think our mediator get shoot? Is it not clear answer for you that this guys doesn't have good will to surrender their guns?

 

[BBOn]

If only you can locate their actual possition, it dosent worth any effort to field SuTuc or Attack helos to hunt guerillas rrbel in small number.
Yet, the mountainous region of papua poses as another enemy to face before and while hunt for millitia.

Better field MALE UAV, put small calibre dumb bomb and let em hunt. But still evel for cheap Chinese C-UAV weaponery its still not worth except to hunt down OPM Top Leader.

Cheap and Capable C-UAV combine with infantry is the key solution to push OPM with power.

Hell yeah, DEATH FROM ABOVE
Damn, I love command and conquered game so much

 

[schuimpjes]

So, you actually doesnt understand the situations.
Benny wenda is one thing and KKB is another thing. Both this actor have different approaches to reach their goal. Benny using politics as his weapon and KKB use guns. The two dont get along with each other.
So, let say you give benny wenda a chance to form local party then how you deal with kkb who still refuse the mediation since independent is harga mati for them? This KKB if you trace their history, you will find they are exist long time a go even before papua join our country. Starting from a battalion that knowed by papua infantry battalion. which has since been disbanded has caused chaos in papua. In other words this revolt is not new. Way older than modern kkb that we know by now.
why do you think our mediator get shoot? Is it not clear answer for you that this guys doesn't have good will to surrender their guns?

Strength of arms (as in guns) is merely a tool. One type of tool out of many. Once they are disarmed, they can always switch gear using their political party & political autonomy as a vehicle for their original agenda. The condition in Papua isn't the same as Aceh

There are two options on my head:
1. Let their armed part to make a party as an exchange to disarm themselves. (Worst case scenario)
2. Bribe their armed part to disarm them. (Best expected scenario)

"But, that will not change the condition that they will stop their activities to seperate themselves from Indonesia", surely not, even I can say, I have a friend from Maluku that actually made a WA status few days ago to celebrate "RMS Independence Day".

I say again, my main point is to "Disarm" them, however is that. After we disarm them, the military will go home, done. (Doesnt meant go home that simple, at least they will decrease the number of forces)

 

[BBOn]

There are two options on my head:
1. Let their armed part to make a party as an exchange to disarm themselves. (Worst case scenario)
2. Bribe their armed part to disarm them. (Best expected scenario)

"But, that will not change the condition that they will stop their activities to seperate themselves from Indonesia", surely not, even I can say, I have a friend from Maluku that actually made a WA status few days ago to celebrate "RMS Independence Day".

I say again, my main point is to "Disarm" them, however is that. After we disarm them, the military will go home, done. (Doesnt meant go home that simple, at least they will decrease the number of forces)

The main issues is not armed group. That is just minor thing if you compare the main issues. The main issues is, how could they can grow bigger day by day and carry out the attack frequently like this without any support? thats likely impossible. So, that means the already won some locals sympathy. The already succes convincing the people thats they are the good guy and indonesia is the bad guy. By giving them a chance to be able to spread their influence and legally supported by the law in form we called political party thats mean we are digging our own grave.

Ok, lets call off this argument

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Hell yeah, DEATH FROM ABOVE
Damn, I love command and conquered game so much

Hell yeah, back then OPM call mortar firing as Ballistic Missile, i wonder when they face small precise guide munition as ICBM.


But yeah, , , ,...
Armed approach to force them to a negotiation perhaps a way to end this despite the continous building of Paua Region.

Still, its make me wonder how this armed terorriat group get funds and weapon, whilst they recruit more members.

 

[BBOn]

Hell yeah, back then OPM call mortar firing as Ballistic Missile, i wonder when they face small precise guide munition as ICBM.


But yeah, , , ,...
Armed approach to force them to a negotiation perhaps a way to end this despite the continous building of Paua Region.

Still, its make me wonder how this armed terorriat group get funds and weapon, whilst they recruit more members.

You know the aswer. Lots of papuan diaspora who live in aussie, new Zealand, canada, belgia, dutch and other place "showing their generosity by donate a little bit of their income for the solidarity thing"
this bunch of morons doesn't know they only make thing become worst and also dont forget some Locals who have hatred and grudge that think is the Indonesia government who should responsible for their hard life and.............. of course our beloved neighbors (state actors) Aussie, New Zealand, Vanuatu and etc who believed they can at least create the next timor leste situations once more.
Like this one https://www.makewestpapuasafe.org/donate
Dont bother to ask clarification from aussie about this phenomenon. Since they will arguing about their neutrality and as the country who respect the free of speech, democracy and human rights they shouldn't interfere with things like this( thats will be different story if they face aborigin people claim of course).
Truly brilliant way to support rebel by the name of humanity

 

[schuimpjes]

You know the aswer. Lot of papuan diaspora who live in aussie, new Zealand, canada, belgia, dutch and other place "showing their generosity by donate a little bit of their income for the solidarity thing"
this bunch of morons doesn't know they only make thing become worst

This kind of things also happen to shady waqaf-waqaf things "Solidarity for Syria, Palestine or other", we don't know where the money will go to. The most possible will go to rebel held Idlib area (I fear that money down to the HTS's pockets) if we are talking about "Solidarity for Syria". No way the money will go to Russia supported Assad's territories like Latakia, Masyaf or other Assad's held areas since the government are fight against what the Islamist called as Mujahidin, and also not even possible the money will go to US backed SDF held Northeastern Syria. The most possible will go to Idlib area.

of course our beloved neighbors (state actors) Aussie, New Zealand, Vanuatu and etc who believed they can at least create the next timor leste situations once more.

I don't think Australia and New Zealand helping OPM "officially". If some of the politicians pro to OPM then that are different, that are not representing the government.

Truly brilliant way to support rebel by the name of humanity

Indonesian Islamist do the same things, so don't be shocked. How much people here praying, supporting for Hamas? A lot. Don't they know that Hamas are fuckin' fought against Fatah (rulling party in West Bank) in Gaza?. So when they are talking about Palestine, In my head "what Palestine that you talking about? Hamas or Fatah (2 most influential) ?, they were killing each other".

 

[BBOn]

With this angle. I believe the plate only capable to stop 7.62mm. Is this 10 mm thick steel plate??