Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[NEKO]

I am already giving hints for many Times here, even you all know that, but so what? For sake of argument i would try to entertain the curious cat. The local KCR 60 even can't beat the performance of previous license build of German design FPB 57 meter class from Lursen, even when the MoD already let the shipbuilder to build the ships in batches with the aim to improve the performance of the class, but alas they still fall short of the performance needed by the Navy. Hey but the MoD only giving meagre budget for the projects? Are you sure? Even the Korean Yoon Youngha class is more less expensive than those KCR 60 with somehow better performance and specification, those Korean indeed had offered their fast boat design for a while though.

Those Turkish Boats being procured is to gain some offset and knowhow the Indhan needed, but what Will they get in the end i don't have much information for a while as even the negotiation is still in process and can be abruptly ended without deal at all.

TLDR; PAL human resources is incompetent.
Lack the capability to develop new technology and know how.

Instead of spending money to buy foreign products, how about spending money to attract foreign talent. I am looking at you UAE.

 

[Lordimperator]

the basic hull design they had problem

Yikes, i hope it will not be repeated on the upcoming mutant vrygate

 

[Lordimperator]

Lack the capability to develop new technology and know how.

Yo, atleast they know how to stamp and promote the jargon

 

[Anmdt]

I am already giving hints for many Times here, even you all know that, but so what? For sake of argument i would try to entertain the curious cat. The local KCR 60 even can't beat the performance of previous license build of German design FPB 57 meter class from Lursen, even when the MoD already let the shipbuilder to build the ships in batches with the aim to improve the performance of the class, but alas they still fall short of the performance needed by the Navy. Hey but the MoD only giving meagre budget for the projects? Are you sure? Even the Korean Yoon Youngha class is more less expensive than those KCR 60 with somehow better performance and specification, those Korean indeed had offered their fast boat design for a while though.

Those Turkish Boats being procured is to gain some offset and knowhow the Indhan needed, but what Will they get in the end i don't have much information for a while as even the negotiation is still in process and can be abruptly ended without deal at all.

I can give the secret formula if y'all need it

 

[NEKO]

secret formula

Ravioli ravioli give me the formuoli.
I will gladly accept it, its krabby patty secret formula right?

 

[Madokafc]

TLDR; PAL human resources is incompetent.
Lack the capability to develop new technology and know how.

Instead of spending money to buy foreign products, how about spending money to attract foreign talent. I am looking at you UAE.

Not only PAL, PINDAD and PT DI had more or less similar problem. Any formula would end up eating dust on the corner

 

[FPXAllen]

I am already giving hints for many Times here, even you all know that, but so what? For sake of argument i would try to entertain the curious cat.

Well, sorry for not following your every single post in here or elsewhere then, because I've totally missed those hints that you've written.
And, yeah, I admit I'm probably a lot more stupid than you or everyone else here, but there's no need to be such a smart*ss.

The local KCR 60 even can't beat the performance of previous license build of German design FPB 57 meter class from Lursen, even when the MoD already let the shipbuilder to build the ships in batches with the aim to improve the performance of the class, but alas they still fall short of the performance needed by the Navy.

Even the Korean Yoon Youngha class is more less expensive than those KCR 60 with somehow better performance and specification, those Korean indeed had offered their fast boat design for a while though.

And yet, when there are a few local private defense companies that are promising with their innovations, somehow the people in the know don't want to have anything to do with them.

Not surprising, really, since some of those people are carrying foreign business interests here.

Hey but the MoD only giving meagre budget for the projects? Are you sure?

I never wrote anything about it. But thanks, I guess, for giving a hint that the MoD has actually allocated a sufficient budget for product improvement. This should make it clear that the faults lie in those companies, be those SoE or private ones, is that it?

Those Turkish Boats being procured is to gain some offset and knowhow the Indhan needed, but what Will they get in the end i don't have much information for a while as even the negotiation is still in process and can be abruptly ended without deal at all.

To make it clear, for your and everyone else's information, I'm not a big fan of our defense industries, both SoE and private, putting the label of "Karya Anak Bangsa" bullsh*t when they're not. I do want to see clear innovative progress without much hype and especially not about recycling old products and spin them as something ground-breaking.

So if this procurement of foreign-made hardware and others like it are really meant to gain as such, then so be it. But if those are only about fulfilling some people's personal pockets, including some foreign companies reps' bonuses here, then...

 

[FPXAllen]

Not only PAL, PINDAD and PT DI had more or less similar problem. Any formula would end up eating dust on the corner

This is precisely why I would love to see our private defense companies have more breathing room to expand, innovate, produce and market their products. No such things can be expected in the shortest amount of time with our SoEs.

 

[Ravager]

With all due respect to @Anmdt and all Turkish members who read this, I wonder why do we still have to acquire fast patrol boats from abroad? Is it about something like a crash project to equip our navy with more ships in the shortest amount of time? Or what?

This is the same question I have when PINDAD "introduced" Caracal assault rifles or that we're still looking to buy 4x4 tactical vehicles from abroad. If it's a matter of the lack of production output capability of our SoEs, so why not expand their production lines or allocating some of them to other, local private companies?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got this impression that "developing our own defence manufacturing capability" or "reducing dependence from imports" is more of a lip service than a real goal to achieve.

Let me ask you a question then ...
What ks wrong with a comparisation ?? Some people were really need some hard slapped in the head just to make the messages get a cross . Put , one good stuff as a benchmark so rest has something they could really learn from .
And from all the foreign suplier we could really pin our trust on ... I choose the turks over any other ...

 

[FPXAllen]

So we can dismiss the racial card here

Huh? What?

No, please, I'm puzzled why did you bring 'racial card' into this thread? Please kindly show me if one of my earlier posts had the slightest hint of this 'racial' stuffs so I may correct myself.

Let me ask you a question then ... Astra group employee were an indonesian too . So we can dismiss the racial card here .... Yet , hiw come with all the government backing and support yet their performance were a world apart ??
Astra was allready try to dable in the CNC toooling manufacturing industry phase and yet , all of those SoE just only manage try to install and assembling components phase and with all of the instruction and supervision provided why they are still failed spectacularly ?? .....
And i blame all of those " soeharto's minded titipan " people ....
And i allready typed more than i should here ...

Private companies with enough investments both from local and foreign sources, which can appreciate talents better and which actually require innovative thinking in their employees vs. SoE with the usual bureaucratic red tapes, corrupt practices, and other brouhahas. Nuff said.

...or not.

Once again:

This is precisely why I would love to see our private defense companies have more breathing room to expand, innovate, produce and market their products. No such things can be expected in the shortest amount of time with our SoEs.

...unless some serious reforms were taken. Fast. (Of which draining the Java Sea and Sunda Strait to create land connections between Sumatra, Java and Kalimantan is probably a much easier work to do than to expect such reforms from happening in the next few decades).

 

[FPXAllen]

Had to write another reply, since you've edited yours. Sorry to everyone if I spammed this thread with mine.

Let me ask you a question then ...
What ks wrong with a comparisation ??

Nothing wrong with comparing a better product with what we can produce at the moment. Never said it's wrong.

Some people were really need some hard slapped in the head just to make the messages get a cross

Like, whom? And what message?

My earlier posts were never intended to be such an overproud Indonesian lamentation. I merely asked why we still need to buy stuff that we already have the capability to produce.

Now if one of the main goals for the procurement of those Turkish-made boats is intended to improve our own, then so be it. Just as the goal of introducing Caracal rifles, as well as procuring Bren ones, so as Pindad can make further improvement to their SS-2 line or even create something new (which I'm not holding breath for that to happen).

Or that the procurement of foreign-made 4x4 vehicles in the same class as what we're able to produce is really meant to study what we're still missing and then to improve ours as the result.

And from all the foreign suplier we could really pin our trust on ... I choose the turks over any other

Oh, for real?

I'm a big fan of many Turkish defense companies' products myself although by no means do I have them 'sponsoring' me or whatnot.

Case in point, despite its funny-sounding name for us Indonesians, I believe Cirit missile is a cost-effective solution for our helos and light attack aircraft. This also explains why I'm really excited to see Kaplan MT / Harimau project since I believe it can be a real incentive for our local defense companies to create something new and innovative.

And, sigh, once again, if those Turkish patrol boats are going to be used as our 'study book' to help us improve our own boats in the future, then so be it.

 

[schuimpjes]

Private companies with enough investments both from local and foreign sources, which can appreciate talents better and which actually require innovative thinking in their employees vs. SoE with the usual bureaucratic red tapes, corrupt practices, and other brouhahas. Nuff said.

Imagine people like Norm Augustine who "In Q Tel" was his brainchild come to Indonesia with investments and put his money for new or potential existing companies, for sure he will killed all of our Defense SOEs single handedly wkwk.

I believe our Defense SOEs are kind of like rotten inside.

 

[Ravager]

Huh? What?

No, please, I'm puzzled why did you bring 'racial card' into this thread? Please kindly show me if one of my earlier posts had the slightest hint of this 'racial' stuffs so I may correct myself.


Private companies with enough investments both from local and foreign sources, which can appreciate talents better and which actually require innovative thinking in their employees vs. SoE with the usual bureaucratic red tapes, corrupt practices, and other brouhahas. Nuff said.

...or not.

Once again:


...unless some serious reforms were taken. Fast. (Of which draining the Java Sea and Sunda Strait to create land connections between Sumatra, Java and Kalimantan is probably a much easier work to do than to expect such reforms from happening in the next few decades).

Well , i appologized for the deleted post . It feel like it was out of context and doesn't convey what i was trying to say .

Had to write another reply, since you've edited yours. Sorry to everyone if I spammed this thread with mine.

Nothing wrong with comparing a better product with what we can produce at the moment. Never said it's wrong.

Like, whom? And what message?

My earlier posts were never intended to be such an overproud Indonesian lamentation. I merely asked why we still need to buy stuff that we already have the capability to produce.

Now if one of the main goals for the procurement of those Turkish-made boats is intended to improve our own, then so be it. Just as the goal of introducing Caracal rifles, as well as procuring Bren ones, so as Pindad can make further improvement to their SS-2 line or even create something new (which I'm not holding breath for that to happen).

Or that the procurement of foreign-made 4x4 vehicles in the same class as what we're able to produce is really meant to study what we're still missing and then to improve ours as the result.


Oh, for real?

I'm a big fan of many Turkish defense companies' products myself although by no means do I have them 'sponsoring' me or whatnot.

Case in point, despite its funny-sounding name for us Indonesians, I believe Cirit missile is a cost-effective solution for our helos and light attack aircraft. This also explains why I'm really excited to see Kaplan MT / Harimau project since I believe it can be a real incentive for our local defense companies to create something new and innovative.

And, sigh, once again, if those Turkish patrol boats are going to be used as our 'study book' to help us improve our own boats in the future, then so be it.

To be honest .... I do share a lot of your sentiments . But , in case you haven't noticed it . The " pribumisasi '' proces are kind off stalled and lose it's direction . The expectation are getting bigger while the critics are getting harsher and to the point . And it was factual too ....
The problem is most of the SoE were pretending bussiness as usual with nothing concrete in result nor any innovative and achievable ideas were ever forwarded to the fore ... not to mention we are allready 5 years behind the schedule and in dire need of the actual deterrent .... A real deterrent mind you !!
Hence the Harsh slaps are needed ...

Yeah , even compared to the rest if the technological option were sound and cheaper price tag i will choose the turks over other .... Anyday.
Liked or not ...we are both were pariah in these hypocritical modern world of politic . Hence birds of feathers are flock together .

 

[Lordimperator]

Excusme for asking about our sub program, any news about interim sub and now that NG kicked out from the Australian sub, hopefully they could max out the marketing in Indonesia

 

[Stuka Dive]

Not chaotic as a swarm, but more organized like a gang.

Just like "brotherhood of the wolves" , it will make deterrence to the lions

 

[satria]

Test Flight PUTA SE-02

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[Mandala]

The design was made for Turkish Navy's FAC request in 2010~ to meet some extreme requirements.
4 LM500 drive 2 steerable waterjets,
1 LM2500 drives the booster waterjet.
Speeds are up to 60 knots in a certain sea state and 50+ at sea state 4,
Weapons are: 8 AShM, 6 Torpedoes, 21xRAM, 76mm SR, 2x12 (or 25mm)
Sensors: Smart-S, dedicated ESM, RW-LW, and probably IRST with the ongoing development

Removing the booster and replacing LM500 with diesel counterparts are possible but then speed settles down somewhere 40-45* knots.
And the hull is semi-planning that happens beyond 40-45 knots, that is why they have made a smaller GMFB that starts planning in 40-45 knots and reaches 54 knots only with diesel.

I see. So its doable but less speed.

 

[schuimpjes]

Meanwhile, our neighbor.

 

[Captain Wales]

Meanwhile, our neighbor.

View attachment 31230

RiP for NG ?

 

[Lordimperator]

RiP for NG

Somewhere in Nippon : feel the same you bro