Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[trishna_amrta]

how much we need corvette-sized vessel for our defence ?

Far more than what we currently have

And if all of our corvette be replace by PKR is it will give an advantage or perhaps drawback ?

If by PKR you were referring to Sigma 10514, then it will provide more operational flexibility

 

[Gary]

how much we need corvette-sized vessel for our defence ?

And if all of our corvette be replace by PKR is it will give an advantage or perhaps drawback ?

If having these corvettes means less bucks for purchase, lower operating cost and more time at sea instead of port queens, then yes we need more corvettes, mind to tell you that we have 14 Parchims that is in need to be retired in the coming years.

 

[San.geuk]

If having these corvettes means less bucks for purchase, lower operating cost and more time at sea instead of port queens, then yes we need more corvettes, mind to tell you that we have 14 Parchims that is in need to be retired in the coming years.

at least we should build it same size as martadinata class with decent weapon as parchim replacement

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Far more than what we currently have


If by PKR you were referring to Sigma 10514, then it will provide more operational flexibility

That's make me think, why in the world we love to add more type of "alutsista" rather than simplified them ?

What i believe is the more simple our naval ship types, the more common the component itself so less panic for maintenance .

But well, i think the boats arent as same as fighter aircraft. So bassically it doesnt matter how many ship type you had its always be ready for war, right ?

 

[NEKO]

Does 30ffm(kalau jadi) intended for parchim replacement?
I hope not, I hope its for fleet expansion, fleet modernization (parchim replacement) we could get smaller, cheaper and less lethal I wont complain if we get locally designed ship.
Getting 30ffm for expansion and modernization would be better but hurt our wallet more.

From what I read its bla bla 30ffm bla up to something 20 ship something...

Itu katanya yang 8 itu dapet diskon yah, yang upto 20 apakah bisa dapet diskonan juga yah.

 

[trishna_amrta]

That's make me think, why in the world we love to add more type of "alutsista" rather than simplified them ?

What i believe is the more simple our naval ship types, the more common the component itself so less panic for maintenance .

But well, i think the boats arent as same as fighter aircraft. So bassically it doesnt matter how many ship type you had its always be ready for war, right ?

In terms of commonality & logistic, operating a naval force isn't the same as operating an air force. Despite the diversity in ship class and supplier, commonality isn't actually much of an issue compare to airplane particularly fighter plane. On the other hand, interoperability, logistic, manpower are a serious issue, however that is more of strategic planning & budgetary problem rather than technical one. I need to stress this again, that diversity in vessel class isn't much of an issue.

 

[NEKO]

And warship don't need to replace the engine as often as jet.

What important is that it can communicate and share data with other assets (not just radio comm).

 

[Captain Wales]

Does 30ffm(kalau jadi) intended for parchim replacement?

would it be better if parchim were replaced by modified pkr that got towed sonar (like the mexican 10514) ? and 30FFM as van speijk replacement (maybe that iver role as van speijk replacement, idk)

 

[Panca]

Does 30ffm(kalau jadi) intended for parchim replacement?
I hope not, I hope its for fleet expansion, fleet modernization (parchim replacement) we could get smaller, cheaper and less lethal I wont complain if we get locally designed ship.
Getting 30ffm for expansion and modernization would be better but hurt our wallet more.

From what I read its bla bla 30ffm bla up to something 20 ship something...

Itu katanya yang 8 itu dapet diskon yah, yang upto 20 apakah bisa dapet diskonan juga yah.

Yups. The number of parchim is quite a lot, I prefer to replace the 80m / 90m class like Bakamla with standard weaponry and this is done by a private shipyard to make it faster.

 

[trishna_amrta]

would it be better if parchim were replaced by modified pkr that got towed sonar (like the mexican 10514) ? and 30FFM as van speijk replacement (maybe that iver role as van speijk replacement, idk)

And where would that towed array will be put in use Over half of Indonesia water is less than 150' deep. Which mean no thermocline and that fancy towed array will end up as trawling net (cantrang nelayan)

In practice towed array is only usable in oceanic environment

 

[NEKO]

would it be better if parchim were replaced by modified pkr that got towed sonar (like the mexican 10514) ? and 30FFM as van speijk replacement (maybe that iver role as van speijk replacement, idk)

Lets stop assuming that parchim replacement will be special purpose ASW ship ( with advance ASW capability). Lol
Parchim was designed for coastal asw but in here its used for more like a patrol vessel, even if only with hull mounted sonar and multiple torpedo launcher like on KRI Diponegoro and KRI Usman Harun is good.

 

[trishna_amrta]

Parchim was designed for coastal asw but in here its used for more like a patrol vessel,

And what's wrong with thatCoastal patrol in Volksmarine context is roughly the same as our territorial water patrol (green water / littoral water) in context. Meaning those Parchim class actually doing what they were design to do in the first place

 

[NEKO]

TAS or VDS won't be useless for Indonesia.

 

[NEKO]

Over half of Indonesia water is less than 150' deep.

Then less than half of Indonesia water is more than 150' deep, and if we are talking about country as big as indonesia.

 

[Van Kravchenko]

And where would that towed array will be put in use Over half of Indonesia water is less than 150' deep. Which mean no thermocline and that fancy towed array will end up as trawling net (cantrang nelayan)

In practice towed array is only usable in oceanic environment

Um sir, even at the new bigger sunda sea there's lot of spot that has deeper seabed.
The pacific and indian ocean are vast and deep tho, and we have a lot of area there.

At first place i agree we didnt urges to acquire any VDS, but adequate Hull Mounted Sonar is a must.

Back then, where in search of Adam Air crash. Even we cant barely move at hi sea state and properly located the FDR.

Yups. The number of parchim is quite a lot, I prefer to replace the 80m / 90m class like Bakamla with standard weaponry and this is done by a private shipyard to make it faster.

Sigma 9113 is good, BTM class is Better.
Sigma 10514 is more better option.
But, i think it just went to PKR 60

 

[Panca]

Um sir, even at the new bigger sunda sea there's lot of spot that has deeper seabed.
The pacific and indian ocean are vast and deep tho, and we have a lot of area there.

At first place i agree we didnt urges to acquire any VDS, but adequate Hull Mounted Sonar is a must.

Back then, where in search of Adam Air crash. Even we cant barely move at hi sea state and properly located the FDR.



Sigma 9113 is good, BTM class is Better.
Sigma 10514 is more better option.
But, i think it just went to PKR 60

Of course we want better, but right now quantity is more important.

PT.DRU

PT. Tesco Indo

PT. PAL

PT. Citra Shipyard

 

[R4duga]

Of course we want better, but right now quantity is more important.

PT.DRU
View attachment 13125

PT. Tesco Indo
View attachment 13126

PT. PAL View attachment 13127

PT. Citra Shipyard
View attachment 13128

pt citra shipyard should be this one .

DAMEN must've been rolling their heads now

 

[trishna_amrta]

The joke about towed array sonar is useless for Indonesia and parchim being a perfectly fine ASW platform for Indonesia are indeed very hilarous

How many sock puppets accounts do you intend to create BTW don't bother changing your browser or device to mask it, I can still burn through such methods. Anyway this sock puppets account of yours is already in my ignore list now.

Yang kamu lakukan sekarang dengan membuat sock puppets accounts itu sama dengan bayi yang masih merangkak, tapi kamu sudah pingin berlari. Coba belajar berdiri tegak dulu, kemudian setelah itu belajar berjalan tegak, baru setelah itu kamu mampu belajar berlari. Semua proses belajar itu ada tahapannya

TAS or VDS won't be useless for Indonesia.

Then less than half of Indonesia water is more than 150' deep, and if we are talking about country as big as indonesia.

They do have their use for deeper water in oceanic environment of Indian Ocean and everything east of Java Sea. However, our current pressing concern is stretching from Natuna Sea on the north to Sunda Strait on the south, along with Mallacca Strait. And when budget is tight, the best course of action is utilizing it in appropriate place & time. Another aspect we seriously need for ASW is actually ASW helicopters along with the ordinance to prosecute contact (light torpedo)

Um sir, even at the new bigger sunda sea there's lot of spot that has deeper seabed.
The pacific and indian ocean are vast and deep tho, and we have a lot of area there.

At first place i agree we didnt urges to acquire any VDS, but adequate Hull Mounted Sonar is a must.

First and foremost, by "Sunda Sea" are you referring to Sunda Strait or the currently underwater part of Sunda Shelf

If you were referring to the Sunda Strait, then sadly I don't currently have the latest chart of it I do however have the1943 Kriegsmarine issue chart, which is basically a carbon copy of the Dai Nippon chart, which in turn is also a carbon copy of commercially available Nederlandsch-Indië chart. So anyway, there is indeed two deep spots in Sunda Strait, however Sunda Strait is an extremely dynamic landscape (seascape) due to continuous volcanic activity of Krakatoa, which mean not only those deep spot are already too small for any combat manoeuvring its also may disappear overnight or even already gone by now. Remember Krakatoa had also disappeared (as in blew up) in similar fashion.

If you were referring the currently underwater part of Sunda Shelf, then there are indeed some deep spot in Java Sea and also Natuna Sea. However, those deep spots were most likely former lakes which is now become something of undersea lakes of sort (disclaimer : this is my own theory). However, due to their nature as former lakes they were fed by river system from what currently is Java or fed from what currently is Borneo. The river system that fed those former lakes are still visible in survey done by Pertamina (forgot the year though). From operational perspective, those former lakes may host thermocline, however even IF they do, the temperature & salinity gradient won't be as steep as one would expect from oceanic environment

Anyway, the latest publicly available chart is available for download at Jaringan Informasi Geospasial Nasional. Sadly, I don't have spare storage (hardrive) capacity to accommodate the entire chart of Indonesia territory. In fact, I rarely kept any of them around due to hardrive capacity shortage (my films, TV serial, and music collection took priority). I usually just download the chart I need and printing it. And delete the files afterward.

 

[trishna_amrta]

pt citra shipyard should be this one . View attachment 13130

DAMEN must've been rolling their heads now

Well that what TOT are for. So we can design & build our own copy of it.

 

[Panca]

pt citra shipyard should be this one . View attachment 13130

DAMEN must've been rolling their heads now

from PC / KCR 40, 60, 80 and 90/95 designs all SIGMA styles.