Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

trishna_amrta

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Salty.
Can you give source? Mungkin bisa dibagi sini saucenya.

Uh, I was confused because at first I thought this was directed at me. But then after reading it again, I understand that's not the case.

Now I'm curious, which local medias?
naach let the said journalist "ngerasa sendiri" And hopefully he could improve his writing with at least joining us here in some healthy discussion and write his article based upon his own conclusion rather than blatantly copy-paste. And if his not, well. . . . . .

aaaah this one kah


aaaah this one kah
Those were the one that caught my attention the most. Obviously there are others that I miss

From this case we can see which Nation is friend in need and which one is not and trying to do something naughty against us instead.

Thanks for Singapore, Malaysia and India for their effort

any news that why australia couldn't send their SRV?
maintenance issue? or else?
Based upon the last official statement, the 🇦🇺 team were deemed too far away, or most likely they are unable to deploy fast enough.

Do you guys think it will be much wiser for navy to decommission 401 (cakra) after this incident ?

Because of the age and it seem like both class doesn't have escape seat capability too.
I guess there is no problem for the navy to operate 3 submarine for several years and waiting for new sub.
We have urgent need for numbers of available platform to handle our northern border remember?

Can we even determine it thou?
Just look at ARA San Juan case, no conclusions up until now.
ARA San Juan was sunk in oceanic environment and was lost contact long enough before SAR effort was call upon
 

NEKO

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It's not right to point the blame on the age of the ship.

Just remember the RSN still operates 2 ex-Swedish sub from the 60s.

We don't have any clue whatsoever on what's going on down there with the ship.
And RoC navy still operates submarine from the 40s although now is used mainly for training.
 

Umigami

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We can't really blame age of sub as a cause
rocn-hai-shih-ss-791-taiwan-submarine-hai-shih-ex-uss-cutlass-a-tench-class-launched-1944-and-fitted-with-guppy-ii-upgrades.jpg

ROCS Hai Shih (SS-791), ex ww2 era submarine, USS Cutlass.
 

Captain Wales

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just from my observation, what your guys opinion on this?

this is cakra class (didn't know which sub)
hatch.PNG

another one when open
hatch3.PNG


compared them with kri ardadedali
seat 404.PNG


the hatch probably the same size but look at the ring around ardadedali and compared them to cakra class who dont have ring around it.
is it possible that DSRV to mate with naggala (hopefully can)?

just need your opinion on this
 

this is crunch

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just from my observation, what your guys opinion on this?

this is cakra class (didn't know which sub)
View attachment 18835
another one when open
View attachment 18836

compared them with kri ardadedali
View attachment 18837

the hatch probably the same size but look at the ring around ardadedali and compared them to cakra class who dont have ring around it.
is it possible that DSRV to mate with naggala?

just need your opinion on this
yes i just noticed it, the outer part of nanggala is narrower than ardadedali has, now i myself not so sure wether dsrv can intact properly on this sub or not:)
 

Anmdt

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Screenshot_20210422_161941.png

Which one is the actual SAR site?
the lower rectangle is where most of warships concentrate on,
While upper rectangle seems empty but shipping route is still on, ships are not re-routed.
Why aren't they still declaring a no-entry zone between kangean and bali for SAR?
 

FPXAllen

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any news that why australia couldn't send their SRV?
maintenance issue? or else?
This is unconfirmed, but from what I know, there's incompatibility issue betwen their DSRVs and Nanggala's hatch.

As for why the issue doesn't seem to affect Singaporean, Malaysian and Indian DSRVs, I have no idea.
 

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just from my observation, what your guys opinion on this?

this is cakra class (didn't know which sub)
View attachment 18835
another one when open
View attachment 18836

compared them with kri ardadedali
View attachment 18837

the hatch probably the same size but look at the ring around ardadedali and compared them to cakra class who dont have ring around it.
is it possible that DSRV to mate with naggala (hopefully can)?

just need your opinion on this
torpedo loading hatch, it is common in most of the subs and doesn't exceed a diameter.
torpedo room is one of the escape compartments thus this hatch can be used for those purposes.
Another escape compartment is on the aft, engine room there should be a hatch as well but i am unsure for Type209/1300.

DSRV can either dock at such flat places or special bolted locations. procedures are different but it is just a detail.

Just ignore people who talks about incompatibility, it is a tiny detail moreover a useless one, which has no affect at the moment.
 
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Umigami

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This is unconfirmed, but from what I know, there's incompatibility issue betwen their DSRVs and Nanggala's hatch.

As for why the issue doesn't seem to affect Singaporean, Malaysian and Indian DSRVs, I have no idea.
Singapore is German sub user, so maybe in some extend there is a compatability.
 

NEKO

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We can't really blame age of sub as a cause
rocn-hai-shih-ss-791-taiwan-submarine-hai-shih-ex-uss-cutlass-a-tench-class-launched-1944-and-fitted-with-guppy-ii-upgrades.jpg

ROCS Hai Shih (SS-791), ex ww2 era submarine, USS Cutlass.
This boat give zumwalt vibe.
yes i just noticed it, the outer part of nanggala is narrower than ardadedali has, now i myself not so sure wether dsrv can intact properly on this sub or not:)
I think it is still possible (and I hope its possible, also hoping the marvelousness of German engineering so the boat still survive at those depth), but the operator need to be extra careful.

In nagapasa class its wider and have "the circle line thing" to help the operator position the dsrv, like a parking line.
 

Umigami

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View attachment 18838
Which one is the actual SAR site?
the lower rectangle is where most of warships concentrate on,
While upper rectangle seems empty but shipping route is still on, ships are not re-routed.
Why aren't they still declaring a no-entry zone between kangean and bali for SAR?
Why declaring no-entry zone when they themselves unsure where the sub is?
 

Captain Wales

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This is unconfirmed, but from what I know, there's incompatibility issue betwen their DSRVs and Nanggala's hatch.

As for why the issue doesn't seem to affect Singaporean, Malaysian and Indian DSRVs, I have no idea.
Yea considering that singapore and india operated the same class of DSRV as australian LR5
 

FPXAllen

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Yea considering that singapore and india operated the same class of DSRV as australian LR5
Well, just don't shoot the messenger.

I was only relaying what I've got so far. I decided not to include that in the articles because I haven't heard the Australian govt. or Australian Navy's official statement.
 

trishna_amrta

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The current world record for free diving is 214 meters and it can only be achieved through rigorous training which is not everyone's forte. From that depth, one must pause several times during surfacing to allow the nitrogen build-up inside blood vessels to dissipate first before continue. If the diver surfaced too fast, he / she risks decompression sickness which can be fatal.

I have talked with TNI-AL divers on several ocassions. If memory serves me right, they told me that it's not a simple task to surface from 'just' 50 meter depth even with diving equipments.
Generally speaking there is no hard cap limit for biological system (in this case human body) because everybody have a different limit.

I personally stay within 30m depth because I'm aware of my own limit and crossing that could potentially fatal for me without proper preparation.

For comparison, your typical car tire have pressure around 30 psi. At 30m of seawater depth the pressure is around 43 psi, at 100m depth the pressure is 145 psi, while at 600m depth the pressure is around 873 psi
 

R4duga

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yes i just noticed it, the outer part of nanggala is narrower than ardadedali has, now i myself not so sure wether dsrv can intact properly on this sub or not:)
from old indomiliter article :

The best and safest choice for the evacuation of submarine crews is through the Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV). This mini submarine vehicle can carry out the evacuation of a relatively large number of crew members and can avoid the crew from the danger of decompression. In order for the DSRV vehicle to dock with the sunken submarine, of course, a battery door that fits the DSRV is of course needed. For the door refer to the NAVSEA standard 0994-LP-013-9010.

However, unfortunately the two current submarines belonging to the Indonesian Navy, namely Type 209 - KRI Cakra 401 and KRI Nanggala 402, have not been equipped with a door that can be connected to the DSRV
. Changbogo Class which is currently being worked on in South Korea, the submarine is designed with a battery door according to the standard NAVSEA 0994-LP-013-9010.
 

Captain Wales

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torpedo loading hatch, it is common in most of the subs and doesn't exceed a diameter.
torpedo room is one of the escape compartments thus this hatch can be used for those purposes.
Another escape compartment is on the aft, engine room there should be a hatch as well but i am unsure for Type209/1300.

DSRV can either dock at such flat places or special bolted locations. procedures are different but it is just a detail.

Just ignore people who talks about incompatibility, it is a tiny detail moreover a useless one, which has no affect at the moment.
i dont think that torpedo loading hatch because on cakra class they load the torpedo through torpedo tube.
CMIIW
torpedo sub id.jpg
 

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Incorrectly mating the vehicles and procedure error could result in more accident because of pressure differences.
 

Anmdt

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from old indomiliter article :

The best and safest choice for the evacuation of submarine crews is through the Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle (DSRV). This mini submarine vehicle can carry out the evacuation of a relatively large number of crew members and can avoid the crew from the danger of decompression. In order for the DSRV vehicle to dock with the sunken submarine, of course, a battery door that fits the DSRV is of course needed. For the door refer to the NAVSEA standard 0994-LP-013-9010.

However, unfortunately the two current submarines belonging to the Indonesian Navy, namely Type 209 - KRI Cakra 401 and KRI Nanggala 402, have not been equipped with a door that can be connected to the DSRV
. Changbogo Class which is currently being worked on in South Korea, the submarine is designed with a battery door according to the standard NAVSEA 0994-LP-013-9010.
They refer to an old NAVSEA, NAVSEA does not standardize rescue seat but the whole SRV operations, for the referred NAVSEA see:

For the new NAVSEA and read whole SR operations manual:

he /she they should have a look at here before bragging about a standard they have seen online.
the NAVSEA they have linked is about whole of rescue operations, not particularly about rescue hatch/seat.

594–3.1.3 DSRV SKIRT. Under the DSRV’s center sphere is a hemispherical skirt and shock mitigation system that allows the DSRV to mate with the rescue seat on the submarine’s rescue/escape trunk (see Figure 594–2–2). The skirt allows a watertight seal to be made between the DSRV and the submarine. After a seal is made, the submarine’s upper access hatch can be opened and swung up into the skirt cavity.

rescue seat is a hatch with flattened -fairing plate around allowing DSRV to make a watertight-sealed connection.
the standard s/he -they referred is older than cakra herself.

Also: a group of hundreds on the way to rescue are dumb but the people who writes that are the smart one? can they care to explain why swift-rescue and Indians are on the way for rescue operations if the submarine is not capable of it? They can at first, try to use their brain before making conclusions.

Also: rescue seat standard and certification:
JFD’s certication process will recognise either full compliance or non compliance to the requirements ANEP/MNEP 85/85.1 and the ability to safely mate with the listed SRVs in the table below. JFD can tailor the certication process to meet specic customer requirements or for other rescue capabilities not listed below whilst remaining in the boundaries of the requirements.

Short of the long: the sub probably doesn't have an aft hatch on engine compartment this is most important when the hull is breached and personnel has escaped to most aft or fore sections to secure watertight compartments. This could mean,if this has happened and some personnel has escaped to aft compartment it will be challenging to rescue them.

i dont think that torpedo loading hatch because on cakra class they load the torpedo through torpedo tube.
CMIIW
View attachment 18842
Maybe for convenience, the torpedo hatch is definitely used for that purpose since WWII.
They are directly loading a torpedo tube in the picture, not replenishing the storage.
 
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