Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

trishna_amrta

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I really thought that special consultant that we hired is for the US products in 30FFM that we need special permission for.
You miss the whole point of hiring a consultant. The idea is to open as much of an opportunity as possible. If MBDA suddenly willing to integrate the Slyver VLS into 🇮🇩 FFM30 that because they are threatened by competing products (Mk-41 VLS)
 

RajaSultanKing

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i kind of wonder whether Japan would be interested in such proposition from EU OEM as this means that the frigate would have to be modified to suite EU OEM's platforms, though it's not a huge problem, i sense that Japan would be all out in selling 30FFM with a combo of Japanese and US platforms rather than EU's (whether be it Thales, Leonardo, Naval Group or any other OEMs) which is used as a way to promote Japanese defense products to international markets

It is not that bad if our 30FFM is fitted with US and Japan made weapon suites, more toys for us to learn and familiarize for
 

Parry Brima

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You miss the whole point of hiring a consultant. The idea is to open as much of an opportunity as possible. If MBDA suddenly willing to integrate the Slyver VLS into 🇮🇩 FFM30 that because they are threatened by competing products (Mk-41 VLS)

You're not making any sense here. If the U.S. give the green light to Japan to export 30FFM in all its glory to us then why bother integrating any foreign systems at all.

Unless you love FFBNW produts so much.
 

trishna_amrta

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You're not making any sense here. If the U.S. give the green light to Japan to export 30FFM in all its glory to us then why bother integrating any foreign systems at all.
❓ :rolleyes: And why should 🇯🇵 need 🇺🇸 permit to export their own products❓
A platform and their sub system (weapon system, sensor, etc) are always separate deal when each of them came from different country of origin. If MBDA is offering their system (assuming in this case is Sylver VLS along with the missiles) then it's all the better, because that mean there is competition to gain market, which will benefit the customer regardless of whatever system that get procured
 

GraveDigger388

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You miss the whole point of hiring a consultant. The idea is to open as much of an opportunity as possible. If MBDA suddenly willing to integrate the Slyver VLS into 🇮🇩 FFM30 that because they are threatened by competing products (Mk-41 VLS)
Aaaaah... Had never think of it like that. That makes total sense.
 

Parry Brima

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❓ :rolleyes: And why should 🇯🇵 need 🇺🇸 permit to export their own products❓
A platform and their sub system (weapon system, sensor, etc) are always separate deal when each of them came from different country of origin. If MBDA is offering their system (assuming in this case is Sylver VLS along with the missiles) then it's all the better, because that mean there is competition to gain market, which will benefit the customer regardless of whatever system that get procured

When I said "30FFM in all its glory" do you really think it's all Japanese made? :ROFLMAO:

Going back to the initial point regarding the special consultant. If the U.S. okay-ing all their products that are part of the original 30FFM configuration to be exported to us then I say go with it. Integrating foreign systems into it will definitely cost us more money due to "bagi2x jatah"
 

Ravager

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Ooohhh lala....

30FFM with EU subsystems might actually happen, eh?

Perhaps that French VLS restriction is no longer?

Remember my last rants about Euro's reluctance for suplying with a familiar components that masseur/penjaga kantin/sales been tweeted about ?? On how much the guys here are salted about them too .... ??
Like i said before .... He is testing the water ...
You miss the whole point of hiring a consultant. The idea is to open as much of an opportunity as possible. If MBDA suddenly willing to integrate the Slyver VLS into 🇮🇩 FFM30 that because they are threatened by competing products (Mk-41 VLS)

This quote were allready explaining much of what was happening in the background ...
It's a hot and pierce race behind those closed door .... And Naval group/MBDA would be a total idiot to let the Japan/US roughsouding them in what once was knownnas their home turf ...
❓ :rolleyes: And why should 🇯🇵 need 🇺🇸 permit to export their own products❓
A platform and their sub system (weapon system, sensor, etc) are always separate deal when each of them came from different country of origin. If MBDA is offering their system (assuming in this case is Sylver VLS along with the missiles) then it's all the better, because that mean there is competition to gain market, which will benefit the customer regardless of whatever system that get procured
Much of the japan system has a major US IP and components in them ....
 

NEKO

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If the U.S. okay-ing all their products that are part of the original 30FFM configuration to be exported to us then I say go with it.
Maybe we will use diesel engine, its good if we can get a green light for any US components that is ITAR'ed.
 

Anmdt

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You miss the whole point of hiring a consultant. The idea is to open as much of an opportunity as possible. If MBDA suddenly willing to integrate the Slyver VLS into 🇮🇩 FFM30 that because they are threatened by competing products (Mk-41 VLS)
The point is neither of them are competitors but rather Indonesia is trying to get one of them.
When I said "30FFM in all its glory" do you really think it's all Japanese made?
Is there any ship out there being made entirely by a nation, or yet alone an alliance? US ships also use European parts in common or even from Japan, don't underestimate Japanese.
❓ :rolleyes: And why should 🇯🇵 need 🇺🇸 permit to export their own products❓
A platform and their sub system (weapon system, sensor, etc) are always separate deal when each of them came from different country of origin. If MBDA is offering their system (assuming in this case is Sylver VLS along with the missiles) then it's all the better, because that mean there is competition to gain market, which will benefit the customer regardless of whatever system that get procured
The question is, does Japanese allow such systems to be integrated on their own ships? Why do people suddenly assumes Japanese to be miserable to make sales just because they have made an offer? This is the particular mindset which has caused problems in the negotiations yet i still see it is going on even on the people at top. They can turn their wheel, they are not in such condition to "makes sales or give up" their navy and army is eager and expanding recently thus have sufficient orders on table even more than what Indonesia could possibly order.

If Japanese are not making sales on CMS, electronics, software moreover the systems which make 2/3 of the price and actually has the largest profit margin in short or long term, what do they gain by making hull, or particularly teaching Indonesia how to make the hull and allow for licensing production and let Europeans to equip, if Indonesia required European parts and software then how this is possibly helping for a regional alliance? Why should Japanese lease those out for free, bare hull without the parts and systems which have the majority of the profits?
 
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Anmdt

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Maybe we will use diesel engine, its good if we can get a green light for any US components that is ITAR'ed.
30FFM runs on RR (British) MT30 and MAN(German) engine if i am not mistaken. Gearbox should be from RENK, propeller-shafting likely from domestic resources. So US has no finger in the propulsion. I don't think Japanese would offer some sort of customization on the engines apart from replacing the engines with the identical ones (RR with GE, MAN with MTU).
 

Philips

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Some of you should lay off the 'Xzibit' mentality when it comes to strategic defense procurement. Not only do some of you want gado gado military, you also want gado gado parts in your gado gado systems.
 

Madokafc

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Indonesian contract deals of FREMM already being put into their mid yearly report

https://www.difesaonline.it/industr...-giugno-2021-ricavi-crescita-del-28-ebitda-84

Screenshot_20210810_071020.jpg
 

NEKO

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Some of you should lay off the 'Xzibit' mentality when it comes to strategic defense procurement. Not only do some of you want gado gado military, you also want gado gado parts in your gado gado systems.
In 30FFM case, Indonesian navy only use diesel engine so the engine might be replaced unless the navy want to try the gas turbine, about weaponry its still unclear if Indonesia will be allowed to get US VLS and missiles, sometimes Indonesia love doing gado-gado but sometimes its because of something we can't control.

Even if its gado gado as long as it works I guess :/
 

Gundala

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Some of you should lay off the 'Xzibit' mentality when it comes to strategic defense procurement. Not only do some of you want gado gado military, you also want gado gado parts in your gado gado systems.
Unlike other Nations, some of us in ASEAN dont have the luxury of rellying on one source of procurement. Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam (to some extent) have gado-gado military equipment as the result of geopolitic or rather external pressure. We all know how closely related military equipement with international political relation/national interest between country. If they could choose freely I am sure no "gado-gado" procurement would happen in the first place.

Anyway I like "gado-gado", its one of of my favourite Indonesia cuisine 😁
 

wekiweko

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I believe a hull will be agnostic to whatever the systems and weaponries that the buyer choose as long as those systems and weaponries fits into the overall architecture of the hull. for example the Naresuan class, it is a chinese hull with US made weapon system installed.
 

RajaSultanKing

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I believe a hull will be agnostic to whatever the systems and weaponries that the buyer choose as long as those systems and weaponries fits into the overall architecture of the hull. for example the Naresuan class, it is a chinese hull with US made weapon system installed.

i think Indonesia is open to all possibilities of modification to 30FFM, the only problem i think would be the Japanese reluctance on adopting EU OEM platforms to its ship, which is basically a promotional tool for Japanese and American naval defense industries to countries that have closer ties with Japan

Also i think most likely Vietnam, Malaysia and Thailand will gonna see how this deals go through to take 30FFM as one of their possible choices for their navy's modernization program
 

flogger

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If its up to me i just go on full japanese system, electronicly, and weaponary package as sam as they operate their
30FFM.
 

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