Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Nilgiri]

We should make somekind of "protest" to US about this AUKUS too.

"There will be a lot of traffic of nuke submarine through my water after this AUKUS thing you make with Australian, and you just give us bunch of F16 / F15?"

Force them to make a better deal, a little bit of Lightning perhaps?

The most likely result is that Australia doesn't get any subs, there anti-nuke lobbying in govt is very strong.

This recent stuff is all executive/cabinet style decision remember....you have to let things play out over time in legislature and even judiciary.

Indonesia can afford to watch and wait to see how it goes, there is little need to stick neck out....a lot of other countries will be making a huge amount of noise so it wont be useful anyway.

France for example has an election come April 2022 (pretty much around the corner). Macron will be forced to sound tough on this given the Le Pen candidate likely being the run-off opponent.

 

[Mandala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440405722215428096

 

[Nilgiri]

So the French did offer nuclear-sub to Australia back in June.

Apart from 10 yrs vs 30 yrs of nuclear fuel, not sure what's the difference in terms of capability between France made vs US/UK made nuclear-powered sub.

"From as far back as June, French officials said they had asked their Australian counterparts multiple times whether they wanted to change the contract from conventional to nuclear-powered submarines, which France also makes, but these questions were met with silence."

Australia and France intensify war of words over cancelled submarine deal

Paris aims swipe at UK as ‘fifth wheel on the coach’ in new security pact

www.ft.com

Seems little interest in picking this up here.

I will give the tl;dr conclusion from purely technical + rational + "cultural" standpoint.

The researched, deployed and proven HEU cycle of the USN (and RN given the UK heavily borrowed/cooperated from it) requires about a 30 year frequency for a refuel (when too much by-product accumulates and new fuel rods needed, precipitating the deepest opening of the reactor - a delicate yet intensive task).

The LEU cycles so far (researched + deployed) like the one France employs.... need refuelling about every 7 years I believe....due to the very nature of LEU regarding this (i.e by-product issue surfaces lot quicker given less source flux ratio).

This would have increased costs for Australia (w.r.t a French SSN) given this increased need to see a french shipyard (every 7 years) or offshoring all that to an aussie shipyard....

If the former option was opted for, there would be things like (French) shipyard labour strike frequency (this is known issue), other issues with French shipyards, EU bureaucracy and all associated costs/issues relative to how they are found w.r.t US and UK.

All part of the larger "cultural" issue stuff coming to bear that @BordoEnes mentioned earlier. There was also a certain way French apparently handled a lot of negotiation and concerns and requests the Aussies put forward.....that put off lot of Aussies involved (though French side of story is largely inaccessible to me it must be said).

Aussie contact of mine told me this did play a big role in this decision to not simply transmute French shortfin back to regular barracuda (SSN).....but opt for HEU + anglo saxon tech/shipyards.

@Anmdt @MisterLike @Nein2.0(Nomad) et al.

Another easter egg in this saga to consider is the American Combat system used by the Aussies in the naval domain and military at large.

The trouble with buying (or leasing) even British subs (in the past) is the RAN being wedded to this CS....and it played some part in decision making for collins (kockums sweden tech) in replacing the oberon class previously.

This was a major sticking point in the current program....as installing the CS into a sub needs certain extensive details, and getting the US to tell France (an issue it seems between the "tier A" force structure guys) about these "crown jewels" was AFAIK an unsolved problem.

This is confirmed now by two Aussies I trust.

 

[Barjo_2]

i thought so, Indonesian Navy and Air Force must get the chunk of acquisition budget and Army can playing as the support expeditionary roles. This Australian Nuclear powered Submarine fiasco should be a wake up call for Indonesian defense and civil think tank analyst and policy maker. There is hardly justification for the Australian to procure nuclear powered submarine except to showing power projection and their growing ambition to build up their air force and Sea domain capability far beyond Australian mainland defense in which overlapped with Indonesian sovereignty area North of them. This something Indonesian should be more wary, as the knife is blind, people is with motive, should we accept something like that without any prejudice? of course not, Indonesian should be wary and keep the wariness into action, like build up her own strength especially Naval and Air domain.

Don't get me wrong, all of us know China is slowly showing their fang and waiting for the moment to enforced their hidden ambition as deep down we all know they still maintained the demeanor of Middle Kingdom and Hantu/ Hanchen concept with regard to their neighboring countries. But Indonesian should still keep their healthy wariness about the growing ambition of our southern Neighbor, as Australia is too a Nation worthy of it.

Is time to replace those 16 parchim class with the new one, and equip those with RBU, kind a love it

 

[Lordimperator]

Is time to replace those 16 parchim class with the new one, and equip those with RBU, kind a love it

Indian kamorta corvette would be suffice as complement for ASW FREMM ita

 

[Umigami]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1440405722215428096

What are Atmaca's significant advantages over Exocet? For what ships? Just for FAC?

 

[NEKO]

Is time to replace those 16 parchim class with the new one, and equip those with RBU, kind a love it

Indian kamorta corvette would be suffice as complement for ASW FREMM ita

Why not just the Modified OPV90.

 

[Parry Brima]

What are Atmaca's significant advantages over Exocet? For what ships? Just for FAC?

Seems to have longer range (250 km vs. 180 km) and biggger warhead (250 kg vs. 165 kg).

Both can be launched from warships, submarines, aircrafts, and to be used for coastal defense. The advantage for Atmaca is that they will also develop the LACM version which is called Kara (299.99 km) according to @Anmdt.

 

[Lordimperator]

Why not just the Modified OPV90.

No doubt that would be nice too (with the soon opv ffbnw captas), but where could we get the rbu?

 

[Barjo_2]

Why not just the Modified OPV90.

ASW hull best in corvette size for me betwen 90-110m is enough, they role as escort for another formidble asset, but bigger is better with enough room for fuel for long range deployment, if we just need a patrol duty (maritim surveillance) for our own teritorial corvette size is good enough

And yeah with helipad available

 

[Barjo_2]

Seems to have longer range (250 km vs. 180 km) and biggger warhead (250 kg vs. 165 kg).

Both can be launched from warships, submarines, aircrafts, and to be used for coastal defense. The advantage for Atmaca is that they will also develop the LACM version which is called Kara (299.99 km) according to @Anmdt.

Just waiting for sinkex video from them, don't wanna made macron angry again

 

[the popo]

so our FREMM will be commisioned gradually 2025.

so we will have brand new 6 ASW + 2 AAW (not mention to Mogami as GP)

https://www.rid.it/shownews/4396

 

[Barjo_2]

No doubt that would be nice too (with the soon opv ffbnw captas), but where could we get the rbu?

Made in india RBU

 

[Zuko]

i thought so, Indonesian Navy and Air Force must get the chunk of acquisition budget and Army can playing as the support expeditionary roles. This Australian Nuclear powered Submarine fiasco should be a wake up call for Indonesian defense and civil think tank analyst and policy maker. There is hardly justification for the Australian to procure nuclear powered submarine except to showing power projection and their growing ambition to build up their air force and Sea domain capability far beyond Australian mainland defense in which overlapped with Indonesian sovereignty area North of them. This something Indonesian should be more wary, as the knife is blind, people is with motive, should we accept something like that without any prejudice? of course not, Indonesian should be wary and keep the wariness into action, like build up her own strength especially Naval and Air domain.

Don't get me wrong, all of us know China is slowly showing their fang and waiting for the moment to enforced their hidden ambition as deep down we all know they still maintained the demeanor of Middle Kingdom and Hantu/ Hanchen concept with regard to their neighboring countries. But Indonesian should still keep their healthy wariness about the growing ambition of our southern Neighbor, as Australia is too a Nation worthy of it.

With the recent developments in the region, such as AUKUS and QUAD, it may be a good time for our Defence Think Tank and Policy Makers to re-assess MEF, to see whether it is still relevant. The timing is also right as MEF will end by 2024...so it may be good to start thinking of transition plan to MEF Part 2. It should not only around equipment procurement and replacement, but more importantly around capability building. I am seeing urgent need for our TNI AL (Armed Forces) capability to track submarine movements within our waters.....maybe MAD equipped CN 295/235 MPA's, SOSUS net...?? Network Centric for sure and ensuring strong coordination and comm among TNI AL, AU and AD.

I guess I am wary that we may not be ready in adapting to this new threat environment....

 

[Anmdt]

What are Atmaca's significant advantages over Exocet? For what ships? Just for FAC?

Kement network - man in the loop, dual mode seeker in Block II. Not very far in some years an Atmaca will be fired somewhere will be able to be updated via tactical link from another asset (MPA, other ship, UAV, USV).

Don't know what will be extends of the export variant but the current one gives flexible waypoint adjustment compared to the westerns and newer approach patterns. It is not just for FACs, in the same class as exocet, harpoon. they are developing MRAShM with IIR seeker that may be adopted as lighter one for smaller platforms.

Despite of what Alman says, Turkey is not striving to make sales on certain projects anymore like in the past, so it is not just about a financial approval but there are other factors to be solved before this sales happening.

 

[FPXAllen]

flexible waypoint adjustment compared to the westerns and newer approach patterns

Is this some kind of evasion maneuver to counter CIWS?

 

[Umigami]

PM Australia Hubungi Presiden Jokowi, Berusaha Tenangkan Indonesia soal Kapal Selam Nuklir

Australia berusaha menenangkan Indonesia mengenai kerja sama Aukus yang dibuat bersama Inggris dan Amerika Serikat.

www.kompas.com

Australia, Indonesia dial in to talk AUKUS - World - The Jakarta Post

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Tuesday that he had had a “very warm conversation” with President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo by phone on Monday evening to "reassure" him about the new AUKUS partnership with the United States and Britain.

www.thejakartapost.com

Scott morrison call Jokowi to calm Indonesia. There will be Australian delegation come to Indonesia too.

 

[Barjo_2]

PM Australia Hubungi Presiden Jokowi, Berusaha Tenangkan Indonesia soal Kapal Selam Nuklir

Australia berusaha menenangkan Indonesia mengenai kerja sama Aukus yang dibuat bersama Inggris dan Amerika Serikat.

www.kompas.com

Australia, Indonesia dial in to talk AUKUS - World - The Jakarta Post

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Tuesday that he had had a “very warm conversation” with President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo by phone on Monday evening to "reassure" him about the new AUKUS partnership with the United States and Britain.

www.thejakartapost.com

Scott morrison call Jokowi to calm Indonesia. There will be Australian delegation come to Indonesia too.

"Bushmaster is not enough to cool us down mate, we want more...."

Anyone else hear that? LOL

 

[Anmdt]

Is this some kind of evasion maneuver to counter CIWS?

Every anti-ship missile have it, it was told that Atmaca allows for more waypoints and additional approach maneuvers. The waypoint numbers restricted in export variants and the manuever has been limited to the basic one.
What makes it interesting is the Kement data link, allows missile path's to be reconfigured on the go, update the target, loiter before attack to time the engagement to increase the efficiency of salvo fires.
Moroever kement also helps missile's approach to be adjusted based on the updated info of the target's position and heading and location.

 

[Anmdt]

PM Australia Hubungi Presiden Jokowi, Berusaha Tenangkan Indonesia soal Kapal Selam Nuklir

Australia berusaha menenangkan Indonesia mengenai kerja sama Aukus yang dibuat bersama Inggris dan Amerika Serikat.

www.kompas.com

Australia, Indonesia dial in to talk AUKUS - World - The Jakarta Post

Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said on Tuesday that he had had a “very warm conversation” with President Joko “Jokowi” Widodo by phone on Monday evening to "reassure" him about the new AUKUS partnership with the United States and Britain.

www.thejakartapost.com

Scott morrison call Jokowi to calm Indonesia. There will be Australian delegation come to Indonesia too.

I don't feel it is honest when some politicians ,who would definitely be willing to buy SSNs if it was affordable and available, reacts to Australia signing a deal on this.