Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

HellFireIndo

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yes, but our land based assets are adequate for low level insurgency we faced, imagine deploying an entire carrier and its guard just to hunt some rebels in hiding ? closer land based forward base hosing attack/utility helo could pretty much support the troops engaging nearby.
Yes Indeed, but we can do things in parallel, not necessarily sacrifice one for another, as the Navy modernization program can run side by side with the Army one. The recently acquired Anoa with gunshot detector is one example that we are going in the right direction, something that may be useful in Papua's situation. Even when we haven't deployed them on the field, at least we have options available to us, and more is coming. And of course, Papuan geography falls more into the hand of Army aviation rather than Naval aviation, so that's for another topic.
For me personally the idea to justify LHA purchase for COIN remain the most uncanny one.

Well, I imagine something like a larger scale insurgency ISIS-style, that's why I use Timor and Permesta example because they were thousands of fighters in scale, rather than a handful of bandits. They were geographically closer to the coast and demanded amphibious capability. Events like the Battle of Dili and Makassar gave me the idea that something like LPH/ LHD, could also serve well to support the troops in situations like these. Remember that I wasn't saying that LPH purpose is exclusively, only for COIN operation, that's only one out of many of their uses. Of course, there are other uses as well such as bolstering amphibious capability in general due to their higher helicopter/ aircraft capacity and flat deck, giving an enormous range of possible use.

I really do think LHD is brilliant in concept because the Marines could land via helicopter assault from the LHD. In my view, they can provide a better option for an amphibious operation, complementing the usual/ traditional landing tactics of using amphibious APC/ IFV, walking through the beaches, or by paratroopers via Hercules. Because all three had troubles during the Seroja operation, especially paratroopers who frequently landed in uncomfortable areas due to their "inaccuracy". I think LHD/ LPH can solve that because we will have the option to insert troops more accurately and rapidly through air assault instead. Of course, I think the LPDs don't have that capability yet, as their helicopter capacity is small and is not optimized for such a mission.
 

NEKO

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Why not jump straight to the aircraft carrier / mini aircraft carrier that able to operates fixed wing aircraft in the future?
 

Umigami

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Why not jump straight to the aircraft carrier / mini aircraft carrier that able to operates fixed wing aircraft in the future?
With catapult or sky jump?
 

FPXAllen

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I know your reply wasn't directed to me, @AlphaMike , but I can't help not to comment on it.

whatever LHA we will buy it will not came with a fixed naval air wing
A "fixed naval air wing" doesn't always have to be manned aircraft especially in the 21st century and beyond. Besides, as I wrote earlier, a conventional aircraft carrier in the traditional sense is overkill for us - even if it's the smallest one like Chakri Naruebet. At least that's how I see it for the foreseeable future.

US aint selling us F-35Bs what's the point ?
As I understand it, the main point is to give our navy a whole new platform to develop their own unmanned-fixed wing-air assets that while these assets currently don't have much capability for air to air/fleet defense, but for our current defense doctrine that's not really a problem since the role will be taken by our air force.

From another perspective, by having the capability to conduct their own air strike/close air support with UCAV/attack helos based on the LHA/LHD, our navy can reduce the burden of such missions for our air force.

Now if we're talking about F-35A/B/C or whatever, I'd dare to speak that we don't need it. Sure, this aircraft is so advanced etc etc, but that comes with an astronomical price tag even excluding the operating and maintenance cost that - in our case - it will better be spend elsewhere instead. Besides, it will be a lot more troublesome for us to construct an LHA/LHD with deck that can withstand the jet blast from such V/STOL stealth fighter.

We will need it if we're really planning to be able to go toe to toe against China to the point that we can threaten them with an invasion to their homeland but since we're not, it will be superfluous, even wasteful, to use it against ragtag rebels or terrorists not to mention that it will be totally useless in disaster recovery operations.

At the end of the day, the navy will likely depend on the air cover the air force provided from its land based aircraft. As we always do.
As we always used to.

Doesn't mean that we will never try to change that.

One more thing, you have not explained on how carrier based aviation are >>>>>>than airfield based aviation in COIN.
Somehow I'm reminded of tactical air force used in the European theater of WW2 - especially between the Soviet and Germany.

Our LHA/LHD will be just that: a moving tactical airfield. It is not supposed to be able to conduct long-range strike beyond 250 - 300 km but within that radius from the coast, its helos and UCAVs can really make a difference for our troops during amphibious landing or on the ground.
 
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NEKO

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With catapult or sky jump?
Not sure, but what I am thinking is its for around 2040, maybe there will be new technology available at that time, the launching system it self or the plane.

But for now we should aim for catapult (electric).
 

Ravager

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Maan ... I wish i coud wholeheartily join the discussion above . And yet , looking at our economic condition and the our state purse get emptier because of this neverending pandemic ....
As long as those AH 140 , Fremm and the mogamis could come fully specced and loaded ... I've contented allready . Wish i could have to dream for more ... But , real life experience taught me to rein my expectation and always prepared for the worst .


Carry on bois ... ☕☕
 

FPXAllen

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But , real life experience taught me to rein my expectation and always prepared for the worst
Oh indeed, how true that is.

However, it's not unheard of that life does give us some unexpected surprises sometimes.

Case in point: Mogami-chan as you mentioned. Just two years ago, who would have thought that Japan will offer us their newest frigate-class to us?

Now I'm not hoping that 2-5 years from now our MoD will announce that we'll build a LHA/LHD, but then again, who knows?
 

Van Kravchenko

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I wonder how many Alman Helvas and his lickers pay to those who keep reupload his tweet here. Perhaps Indonesian goverment need to establish "Kementrian Penerangan"
 

Madokafc

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The Navy headquarter already re-formed Koarmada RI just like in the previous of glorious era of Indonesian Navy (ARMADA ALRI) under commodor R.E Martadinata in 1959. look at (Berdasarkan SK KSAL No. A. 4/2/10 tanggal 14 September 1959 ditetapkan berdirinya organisasi Komando Armada ALRI, yang diresmikan pembentukannya pada tanggal 5 Desember 1959 oleh KSAL Komodor Laut R.E. Martadinata.)


And this is quote from Yudho Margono himself during the ceremony.

Kepala Staf Angkatan Laut (Kasal) Laksamana TNI Yudo Margono menyebutkan, pembentukan Komando Armada RI yang baru diresmikannya itu untuk menghadapi tantangan dan ancaman di perairan Indonesia, termasuk situasi di Laut China Selatan (LCS).

"Sudah bukan rahasia lagi bahwa situasi di LCS itu akan menjadi tantangan kita bersama. Saya kira ini sudah paham semuanya lah, bukan rahasia lagi," kata Kasal usai meresmikan pembentukan Koarmada RI di Dermaga Koarmada I Pondok Dayung, Tanjung Priok, Jakarta Utara, Kamis.


And taken by no less Antara News, Indonesian government outlet media. This is quite a serious message about MoD intention to rebuild Indonesian Navy into one of the most respected Forces in the region, our carrying stick diplomacy tools. One can said how bad KRI Irian and other warships stuff to be maintained at the time, but nonetheless their presence carrying serious message about our diplomacy and intention. And fulfilled their goals to liberated Papua without commencing operation Jayawijaya. The possibility of Indonesian Navy to acquire fullfledged Destroyer and flat top platform as our diplomacy tools is quite high with the recent trends....
 

FPXAllen

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This is quite a serious message about MoD intention to rebuild Indonesian Navy into one of the most respected Forces in the region, our carrying stick diplomacy tools.
Just about the damn time, if not long overdue especially for such an archipelagic country as massive as ours.

Now do the same for the air force, please?

The possibility of Indonesian Navy to acquire fullfledged Destroyer and flat top platform as our diplomacy tools is quite high with the recent trends....
yes-meme.png
 

NEKO

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I think the priority should be modernization first, we need to completely replace all those old ship (corvette, frigate) before getting any flat tops.
Getting new capability like long range SAM, LACM, more advance radar and EW, VDS & TAS, more missiles per-ship, etc for the new ship is even better.
And taken by no less Antara News, Indonesian government outlet media.
Only in Indonesia, state sponsored news media posting sensible and "normal" news not that much propaganda, while the independent news media voluntary keep publishing propaganda we supa powa ketar ketir, in other country is the state sponsored news media that is shitposting propaganda.
 

Madokafc

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I think the priority should be modernization first, we need to completely replace all those old ship (corvette, frigate) before getting any flat tops.
Getting new capability like long range SAM, LACM, more advance radar and EW, VDS & TAS, more missiles per-ship, etc for the new ship is even better.

Only in Indonesia, state sponsored news media posting sensible and "normal" news not that much propaganda, while the independent news media voluntary keep publishing propaganda we supa powa ketar ketir, in other country is the state sponsored news media that is shitposting propaganda.

This is not only question about replacement of old assets anymore, but more like massive expansion of capability and strength in number. KCR 60, OPV 90, FREMM, Maestrale class, Bintuni class, Tarakan class oiler, Makassar class LPD, BRS ships Arrowhead 140 and so on is already beyond replacing old Corvette and Frigates, LST and other old stuff one by one but massive expansion in capability and strength.
 

JATOSINT 

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Talking about Koarmada RI and koopsudnas, as both are filled with ⭐⭐⭐, where actually the main/highest C&C authority lies? The two new organisations or Kogabwilhan?
 

Ravager

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Oh indeed, how true that is.

However, it's not unheard of that life does give us some unexpected surprises sometimes.

Case in point: Mogami-chan as you mentioned. Just two years ago, who would have thought that Japan will offer us their newest frigate-class to us?

Now I'm not hoping that 2-5 years from now our MoD will announce that we'll build a LHA/LHD, but then again, who knows?
That's why i never oppose a what if scenarios discussion . While the expectation has always to be kept low ... The dream plan and future vision should always be encouraged . We should always prepared for any and all an eventuality 👍👍
I think the priority should be modernization first, we need to completely replace all those old ship (corvette, frigate) before getting any flat tops.
Getting new capability like long range SAM, LACM, more advance radar and EW, VDS & TAS, more missiles per-ship, etc for the new ship is even better.

Only in Indonesia, state sponsored news media posting sensible and "normal" news not that much propaganda, while the independent news media voluntary keep publishing propaganda we supa powa ketar ketir, in other country is the state sponsored news media that is shitposting propaganda.
What could i say ... We are living in these interesting times .

😄😄
Err actually they already do that, you know

Well , it's understandable ... The benchmark today was F 35 . Any less capable platform today were less regarded and appreciated .
Just because we haven't been granted ( yet ) the permission for a F 35's acquisition . some might forget and think that Rafales and Eagle EX were second tiered stuff not a premium one .

☕☕
 

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