Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[rai456]

Got it.

Is there any plan to have PAL shipyard capacity/expansion for building with ToT these (3) destroyers or they (assuming funding allotted etc)have to be built for most part in foreign shipyard?

If its the latter, definitely India has little to no chance for this decade. Everything is near 100% commited already (for own domestic warship production) and being restructured (for expansion to catch up with the larger powers) where possible.




Yup, pretty much.



Yah, but the issue is shipyard capacity (for shipyards that have the capital equipment + mgmt + labour expertise i.e public owned big 4: MDL, GRSE, HSL, CSL) for warships.

Building one in India for export of new (large i.e destroyer, frigate etc) warship is basically not possible....everything is tied up.

Reorganisation + more funding to expand the public owned ones and build institutional trust etc with private ones will take time to achieve say export capacity.



@TR_123456 and I noticed the viewership had even touched 1000+ at times in recent days.




Yup thats all a big part of the reason. The civilian shipbuilding leveraging. However the nature of war has changed a lot since WW2, the capacities will be targetted much quicker by opponents.

I dont think there will be long term capacity operation/utilisation in the equation to the degree we saw in WW2 in a major world war today.

Even international logistics argument (often used as to why so and so routes are invested in and made as alternative to some shipping chokepoints)... I think is overrated.

Every sensitive node will be targeted as a piority by whichever opponent....a lot of these are and will remain extremely vulnerable. Large powers will want to have as much advantageous initial starting power + positioning as possible with all of this in mind.




The numbers are a bit old now (this was in the previous decade ~ 2000 - 2010), things are changing now as India economy and investment capacity grows in absolute levels that are required (roughly where china was in early 2000s, assuming the accounting of inflation is about the same which may not be the case in Chinese statistics but thats another story).

In any case a number of specific reasons are explored in this paper below ("productivity" issues along with suggestion to merge the 6 PSUs into just one):

Bot Verification

Basically the public shipyards (which are preferred when it come to warships) suffer lack of investment and infrastructure given way the budgeting works from govt along with strong unionisation and associated corruption + bureaucracy norms caused by that.

The private shipyards that are more responsive/dynamic and have better accountability (from market pressures) and scope to grow (say using India's market capitalisation and debt market financing) and use their existing capacity etc, are not looked upon favourably for large warship builds....though some smaller ones have been given for now. Some also facing insolvency on top that needs to be sorted out first before recapitalisation of their capacity (whereas public shipyards will never face such insolvency like that).

This is exacerbated by lack of real volume of scale to leverage (in first place) like East Asia has in its shipyard raw output and labour + mgmt pools that Rai spoke to earlier.

That will take time to grow to anything appreciable, so in interim extra competent handholding is needed to account for that lacking, which is why the Admiral suggests merging PSU's as first step to generate more economy of scale there given the mental block in defence block about role of private sector here (and let private sector grow its commerce shipbuild side this decade and see where they stand next decade etc).

Otherwise there will just be piecemeal capacity expansion and iterative improvement separately which definitely will only just about manage to keep up with domestic needs, forget about export capacity:

Mazagon Dock weighs plan to build a Rs3,000 crore new yard at Nhava Sheva to overcome capacity constraints - ET Infra

State-run Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Ltd is weighing plans to build a greenfield shipyard with a floating dry dock at Nhava Sheva, located across the channel where it currently operates, estimated to cost some Rs 3,000 crores to overcome capacity constraints, the top official at India’s biggest...

infra.economictimes.indiatimes.com

Maybe @Gessler @Anmdt et al. can add their thoughts to this from anything they know.

The P-17A program looks promising if you can keep the delays to a minimum. I expect it to be commissioned ahead of the British Type 26 frigate (which was laid down around the same time) at least.

 

[JATOSINT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666254600138268678

 

[Umigami]

I bet they will just gonna use this during Exercise for RI01 accommodation

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666318268351537153

 

[Madokafc]

I bet they will just gonna use this during Exercise for RI01 accommodation

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666318268351537153

For presidential ship, such room is okay. Come on, he/she is the most important person elected by hundred million Indonesian people such accomodation is nothing

 

[Umigami]

For presidential ship, such room is okay. Come on, he/she is the most important person elected by hundred million Indonesian people such accomodation is nothing

but I don't think we need to build a ship specially for that

 

[Madokafc]

but I don't think we need to build a ship specially for that

Megawati think so

 

[chibiyabi]

Megawati think so

not Her, the one who want to take the chair should do this ngoahahahahaha........

 

[Umigami]

Megawati think so

Why rash to use Bung Karno name for that?
I can't imagine how she will react if suddenly we have Carrier or LHD?
and because "Bung Karno" already being used, that gallant boat named KRI Soeharto instead?

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666216825930280960

So am I getting this right. Indonesia was going for 6 Fremm frigates but now has cut it to just 2? Isn't that a tad bit too much? I'm sure there was a reason why 6 frigates was the initally order.

I'm gonna guess monetary restraints?

Or are they splitting the order to different years to fit them into the budget.

like 2+2+2 ?

 

[Umigami]

So am I getting this right. Indonesia was going for 6 Fremm frigates but now has cut it to just 2? Isn't that a tad bit too much? I'm sure there was a reason why 6 frigates was the initally order.

I'm gonna guess monetary restraints?

Or are they splitting the order to different years to fit them into the budget.

like 2+2+2 ?

Most Likely, and we have to secure F15 deal this year.

 

[this is crunch]

I think it's different, KRI Ir. Soekarno is still available though, But out of all, just because it's presidential / VVIP ship should they use president's name? IMO KRI Arjuna or Yudhistira would be better.

 

[Umigami]

KRI Ir. Soekarno is still available though.

isn't it would be bad if there are two vessel with pretty much the same name?
what if they're sailing in the same flotilla?
It would be confusing

 

[Van Kravchenko]

isn't it would be bad if there are two vessel with pretty much the same name?
what if they're sailing in the same flotilla?
It would be confusing

Worryn't we still have plenty of heroes name to be use.

Even if two or more nomenclature have same meaning, military still have code or call sign for each unit. Let say you can call a Ship by its pennant number, problem solved for practical use.

 

[this is crunch]

Alright Fellas, Part 2 of funfact of Nagapasa - Chang Bogo - Type 209 1400 class is here

4. You know this type of submarine is diesel-electric right? and you also know that there is word "Diesel" in it, and you should also undestand that Diesel engine is breathing air, explode, and exhale right? BUT WHERE IS THE EXHAUST PIPE? worry not fellas, its here

haha can't see it?
here, behind the conning tower there is exhaust opening near the waterline,

and also don't worry because it's already engineered in such a way so that the seawater won't flood inside, btw the air intake is somewhere up in the conning tower behind the snorker (the very left and the biggest pipe), we can't see it though, but that's there, how do i know, just take a look of previous cutaway-blueprint photo

5. if you wonder what this is in the conning tower, since it's obvious and covered in clear glass

don't need to be so exited because that is just the navigation light not some highest secrecy and powerful sensor, just navigation light

6. Diesel-Electric Submarine is basicaly a huge genset and a powerbank, she can be recharged at home, i mean homeport

alright, there will be part 3, soon

 

[chibiyabi]

So am I getting this right. Indonesia was going for 6 Fremm frigates but now has cut it to just 2? Isn't that a tad bit too much? I'm sure there was a reason why 6 frigates was the initally order.

I'm gonna guess monetary restraints?

Or are they splitting the order to different years to fit them into the budget.

like 2+2+2 ?

reasonable, n probably multiyears procurements.

 

[NEKO]

So am I getting this right. Indonesia was going for 6 Fremm frigates but now has cut it to just 2? Isn't that a tad bit too much? I'm sure there was a reason why 6 frigates was the initally order.

I'm gonna guess monetary restraints?

Or are they splitting the order to different years to fit them into the budget.

like 2+2+2 ?

Its not official and confirmed yet.

 

[NEKO]

Alright Fellas, Part 2 of funfact of Nagapasa - Chang Bogo - Type 209 1400 class is here

4. You know this type of submarine is diesel-electric right? and you also know that there is word "Diesel" in it, and you should also undestand that Diesel engine is breathing air, explode, and exhale right? BUT WHERE IS THE EXHAUST PIPE? worry not fellas, its here View attachment 58041
haha can't see it?
here, behind the conning tower there is exhaust opening near the waterline, View attachment 58042
and also don't worry because it's already engineered in such a way so that the seawater won't flood inside, btw the air intake is somewhere up in the conning tower behind the snorker (the very left and the biggest pipe), we can't see it though, but that's there, how do i know, just take a look of previous cutaway-blueprint photo

5. if you wonder what this is in the conning tower, since it's obvious and covered in clear glass View attachment 58046
don't need to be so exited because that is just the navigation light not some highest secrecy and powerful sensor, just navigation light

6. Diesel-Electric Submarine is basicaly a huge genset and a powerbank, she can be recharged at home, i mean homeport View attachment 58054

alright, there will be part 3, soon

She also have "chaft/flare" to deceive incoming enemy torpedo, and its acoustic decoy made in Turkey.

 

[R4duga]

 

[R4duga]

i just hope couple of people in the pic above would stay away from our military industrial complex policy maker ......

 

[this is crunch]

She also have "chaft/flare" to deceive incoming enemy torpedo, and its acoustic decoy made in Turkey.

Yes according to the news, but i also aware that that features is not there yet, my best guess is they will be install it when they do maintenance at the drydock, because...

you see, there will be need to do some minor modification for installing, wiring, and stuff