Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

Gary · Sep 4, 2020

ANMDT said:
That amount is quite little, purely the equipment in such a facility usually costs twice as that.
And it was for 2021 budget? then we can assume the construction of facility will start in 2022, construction of submarines will start in 2024,earliest. first submarine might be delivered in 2030.
The same facility however can be used for Type214 as well. It is a general submarine dock.
In the 3rd hull SK was involved too much (pre-assembly in Korea, also Koreans were doing main assembly in Indonesia), and there was left a little to be done by Indonesia and it wasn't really usefull. Hopefully Indonesia will be involved more in 4-5-6th hulls.

The facility itself is already completed and used for the assembly of the third C'bogos, it's mostly for additional stuff.

Our approach is to be independent in hull sections first before moving to the complete fabrication and assembly of subs.

Anmdt · Sep 4, 2020

#comcom said:
The facility itself is already completed and used for the assembly of the third C'bogos, it's mostly for additional stuff.

Our approach is to be independent in hull sections first before moving to the complete fabrication and assembly of subs.
View attachment 795 View attachment 796

The budget makes sense now, but the new equipment is mainly for 4th and maybe 5th ship,and additional upgrades will be needed for 6th one, which most of it will be built and assembled in PT PAL. And for the last goal there will be a need for a comprehensive facility.
88 million worth equipment might cover up to the 5th ship, however for 6th ship there will be need for additional equipment since working on propulsion systems and their assembly requires more detailed work.
At least the facility exists but, when will they begin construction of the 4th ship?

Test7 · Sep 4, 2020

Thales to Modernize Indonesian Frigate with Radars, Missiles

The Indonesian Ministry of Defence has asked Thales Group to modernize KRI Usman-Harun multi-role light frigate.
In March 2020, Indonesia’s defence ministry formally launched the modernisation, signing an agreement with lead contractor, PT Len, and Thales, to upgrade KRI Usman-Harun – with completion expected by 2023, Thales said in a release September 1.

The project will cover equipping the corvette with latest-generation TACTICOS Combat Management System, SMART-S Mk2 3D and STIR 1.2 EO Mk2 radars, a Vigile Mk2 ESM, and two new tactical data links – Link Y Mk2 and a tactical data link that will be wholly delivered by PT Len, providing connectivity to Indonesia’s military communications network and enabling the corvette to play its full part in wider naval task forces. Existing weaponry will also be fully integrated, and a new VL MICA surface-to-air missile system added.

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Anmdt · Sep 7, 2020

@#comcom Indonesia has indigenous CMS for warships, and Danish Terma's C-Flex is used on KCRs and will be used on multi-role AAW frigate. So the question is, why don't they use indigenous CMS or C-Flex in MLU of Bung Tomo Class? And particularly, why Thales Tacticos--sensor suite was chosen among the other options; which were allowing Indonesia to upgrade Bung Tomo with indigenous CMS / C-Flex ?
The question is rather, why pouring lots of money on a single considerably old class of vessels while Thales tacticos and sensor suite can be better purposed on multi-role AAW frigate class. If the cheapest offer has led officials to choose Terma + TRS for AAW frigate, why an expensive solution was chosen for Bung Tomo?.

Gary · Sep 8, 2020

ANMDT said:
@#comcom Indonesia has indigenous CMS for warships, and Danish Terma's C-Flex is used on KCRs and will be used on multi-role AAW frigate. So the question is, why don't they use indigenous CMS or C-Flex in MLU of Bung Tomo Class? And particularly, why Thales Tacticos--sensor suite was chosen among the other options; which were allowing Indonesia to upgrade Bung Tomo with indigenous CMS / C-Flex ?
The question is rather, why pouring lots of money on a single considerably old class of vessels while Thales tacticos and sensor suite can be better purposed on multi-role AAW frigate class. If the cheapest offer has led officials to choose Terma + TRS for AAW frigate, why an expensive solution was chosen for Bung Tomo?.

I think the indigenous Mandhala CMS is not as advanced in terms of processing power compare to that of let's say Tacticos, the Mandhala CMS are used as stopgap measures to replace outdated Thales Sewaco CMS onboard the 60's Van Speijk (only on 3 ships) and 80's Rencong class FAC.
Bung Tomo's MLU are geared for commonality with the Sigma's they are are paired with Hardware from Thales (Smart S MK2) , VL Mica with sylver A35 vls so it's no surprise that the Navy chose the Tacticos as it's the very same CMS used in the Martadinata's. As for the Iver Huitfeldt , the Terma/Hensoldt team won the tender hence it's paired with Hensoldt TRS 4d and C-Flex.

Why Tacticos? Well the Europeans have set their footprint deep here since ages now, they (Tha*es) know how to "court" the officers responsible for the warships programs. Maybe that explains why Indonesian Navy didn't bother using cheaper more capable missile like ESSM, consider it's harder for them to corrupt compared to let's say sales from the US.

Anmdt · Sep 8, 2020

#comcom said:
I think the indigenous Mandhala CMS is not as advanced in terms of processing power compare to that of let's say Tacticos, the Mandhala CMS are used as stopgap measures to replace outdated Thales Sewaco CMS onboard the 60's Van Speijk (only on 3 ships) and 80's Rencong class FAC.
Bung Tomo's MLU are geared for commonality with the Sigma's they are are paired with Hardware from Thales (Smart S MK2) , VL Mica with sylver A35 vls so it's no surprise that the Navy chose the Tacticos as it's the very same CMS used in the Martadinata's. As for the Iver Huitfeldt , the Terma/Hensoldt team won the tender hence it's paired with Hensoldt TRS 4d and C-Flex.

Why Tacticos? Well the Europeans have set their footprint deep here since ages now, they (Tha*es) know how to "court" the officers responsible for the warships programs. Maybe that explains why Indonesian Navy didn't bother using cheaper more capable missile like ESSM, consider it's harder for them to corrupt compared to let's say sales from the US.

And my question remains, why not c-flex with hensoldt on bung tomo? For commonality the mica vl can be installed with those.
From what i understood on the agreement made with terma (for KCR projects), i assumed the cooperation would extend to the future ships.
ESSM might not have been released for indonesia ( when corvette-frigate project was initiated however, nowadays it will be), that could be another matter to choose vl mica, moreover it occupies more space, depth and Damen shipyard wouldn't intend to redesign sigma class for that.
I doubt if essm is cheaper than vl mica.

Gary · Sep 8, 2020

ANMDT said:
And my question remains, why not c-flex with hensoldt on bung tomo? For commonality the mica vl can be installed with those.
From what i understood on the agreement made with terma, i assumed the cooperation would extend to the future ships.

To be fair Indonesian armed forces are never good with standardization, here's a list of CMS in service with the Indonesian fleet now and in the near future.
-Iver huitfeldt (C Flex)
-Martadinata (Tacticos)
-Diponegoro (Tacticos)
-Bung Tomo (Tacticos)
-Van Speijk (Mandhala, Sewaco)
-Fatahillah (Navantia Catiz CMS on x1 ship, Ultra Electronic CMS on X1 ship, old Sewaco on x1 ship)
-chinese CMS on 2 KCR 40
-chinese CMS on 2 KCR 40
-Terma C Flex on 3rd to 6th KCR 60
-Kongsberg MSI 90U MK2 on all Cakra and Nagapasa class SSK

Gary · Sep 8, 2020

@Chestnut any idea on the Chinese CMS on KCR 40 and early 2 KCR 60s?

Gary · Sep 8, 2020

ANMDT said:
I doubt if essm is cheaper than vl mica.

I think definitely an ESSM is cheaper as it's produced in larger Numbers than MICA and its used widely in almost major NATO state,

Gary · Sep 18, 2020

Indonesian Marines BVP-2 IFV, fun fact it's role in the Indonesian marines is as a stopgap SPAAG, this belongs to the II Air Defense Battalion .

Gary · Sep 18, 2020

First time footage of Helras anti submarine dipping sonar used by the Navy Panther ASW helo, amid an uptick of Indonesian military exercise in the air, sea and land.