Indonesia Indonesian Navy, Tentara Nasional Indonesia-Angkatan Laut (TNI-AL)

[Van Kravchenko]

Side scan sonars are used to create sea-bed maps.
They help to identify shadows, which indicates profile of the object.

Excuse me, how much nominal depth of type 209/1300 that could sustain "crash depth" ?

In case of the worst, is there worth either effort or lesson to recover the "fallen" ?
Imho, recover the sub isnt will come in handy.

 

[Anmdt]

Excuse me, how much nominal depth of type 209/1300 that could sustain "crash depth" ?

Nobody can tell you an exact number here, the pressure hull can withstand way below than test depth.
I can give you a theoretical number but it wont make any sense because it is theoretical , assuming a hull without flaws,corrosion and no fatigue.

In case of the worst, is there worth either effort or lesson to recover the "fallen" ?
Imho, recover the sub isnt will come in handy.

There is no worst until they are making sure the hull is imploded. They will go to the last moment i am sure they have set a duration for SAR.
unlike ARA san juan, premises of nanggala is known, i am sure they will locate it soon.

 

[FPXAllen]

Excuse me, how much nominal depth of type 209/1300 that could sustain "crash depth" ?

In case of the worst, is there worth either effort or lesson to recover the "fallen" ?
Imho, recover the sub isnt will come in handy.

The actual "crush depth" (not crash, btw) limit of most modern submarines is classified. But if I'm not mistaken, in the recent press conference either the Navy chief of staff / spokeperson revealed that it was around 500 meters.

As for the second question and in the worst case scenario, yes. It's worth the effort as long as the doomed submarine can be recovered. It's not only to recover the remains of the crews as in the Kursk's case, but also to conduct investigation as to why the accident happened.

 

[trishna_amrta]

In case of the worst, is there worth either effort or lesson to recover the "fallen" ?

Its worth every coin. When a military began to left behind their fallen, morale will hit the rock bottom pretty quick, because everybody wants to go back to their family be it dead or alive is it not?

 

[Madokafc]

Why declaring no-entry zone when they themselves unsure where the sub is?

To reduce the noice problem in the area. If the crew sending tapping or ping message, they can hear it better.

 

[Ryder]

Man hopefully they can find the submarine and save the crew.

Hopefully this does not become a tragedy.

All the best for Indonesia.

 

[Nilgiri]

But if I'm not mistaken, in the recent press conference either the Navy chief of staff / spokeperson revealed that it was around 500 meters.

500 m is the maximum safe operating depth I believe...since a number is actually given in this rounded way.

Crush depth range will be a fairly large Margin of safety more than it.

Max crush depth depends on a few more variables as anmdt pointed out.

I would assume though 700m is within that margin of safety between max operating depth and where crush depth range starts.

 

[Ryder]

500 m is the maximum safe operating depth I believe...since a number is actually given in this rounded way.

Crush depth range will be a fairly large Margin of safety more than it.

Max crush depth depends on a few more variables as anmdt pointed out.

I would assume though 700m is within that margin of safety between max operating depth and where crush depth range starts.

Basically the ocean can crush us into a tin can.

I cannot imagine the pain!!

The Ocean is one deadly place. That explains why my mum never allowed me to do spear fishing and scuba diving. Her biggest fear was me and my brother getting lost at sea.

 

[JATOSINT]

Also: a group of hundreds on the way to rescue are dumb but the people who writes that are the smart one? can they care to explain why swift-rescue and Indians are on the way for rescue operations if the submarine is not capable of it? They can at first, try to use their brain before making conclusions.

Are there any 'experts' who have talked about this in media?

 

[Anmdt]

Are there any 'experts' who have talked about this in media?

I am not really sure, has there been any?

 

[R4duga]

Are there any 'experts' who have talked about this in media?

other than the australian "Frank Owen" from submarine institute of australia , there's not yet any other media talking about the DSRV stuff compatibility with nanggala .

 

[Anmdt]

Just give the damn satellite images!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385304127186653192

All of what were written on that article were based on Indonesian Navy (officially/unofficially) statements.

I'm in the low confident level the crews are still alive (biologically, doesn't mean to be bad. They alive always in honor). Hope I'm wrong and our wishes are working.

It is not about that, officials are telling a few keyword such as:
black-out, then news makers tell " the submarine had gone into a power failure and black out stage"
static-dive, and news makers tell " the submarine was sinking"
72 hours air supply, and news makers tell "the crew will run out of air on saturday 3 am"
oil spill, and news maker tell "the oil tanks have cracked"
sonar contact and news maker tell " there has been a contact with the crew"

the problem is that officials are using some terminology, news makers using their imagination and filling the gaps and writing false stories to fill up paragraphs.

 

[FPXAllen]

Just give the damn satellite images!

I don't think satellite image can help much to reveal the location of sunken sub though, especially if it's already below 50-100 meter depth. It may be still useful for locating oil spills or large debris - but then again, patrolling aircrafts can also be used for this purpose.

the problem is that officials are using some terminology, news makers using their imagination and filling the gaps and writing false stories to fill up paragraphs.

The problem is, many - if not most - journalists aren't well versed in military terms. So they tend to interpret what it means by, say, "static dive" according to what they thought it was and not confirming it back at all.

Another problem is that they often has their own channels directly to the persons in the frontline who were giving them unfiltered informations like the "sonar contact" example you wrote.

Then, if you add sensationalism as a means to generate web traffic for the media they are working for, you got misleading stories as the result.

 

[Anmdt]

I don't think satellite image can help much to reveal the location of sunken sub though, especially if it's already below 50-100 meter depth. It may be still useful for locating oil spills or large debris - but then again, patrolling aircrafts can also be used for this purpose.

Not intended to offer it for scanning the bottom of the ocean.
At least it can provide a last heading and location to localize Search and rescue area.
Also SAR satellites depending on wavelength can provide some information about the wake. Even if it is submerged at night time, waves will be visible on synthetic aperture radar some people can use those to calculate a possible diving velocity and detect possible signs of what has gone wrong.

 

[Anmdt]

View attachment 18838
Which one is the actual SAR site?
the lower rectangle is where most of warships concentrate on,
While upper rectangle seems empty but shipping route is still on, ships are not re-routed.
Why aren't they still declaring a no-entry zone between kangean and bali for SAR?

http://imgur.com/XAS9JUG

image from a reddit user,
looks like incident took place in lower rectangle, oil spill was also detected in this area.

 

[Umigami]

AS Bakal Bantu Pencarian KRI Nanggala-402

Amerika Serikat bakal mengerahkan peralatan untuk membantu pencarian kapal selam TNI Angkatan Laut, KRI Nanggala-402.

www.cnnindonesia.com

I think US will deploy Poseidon afterall.

 

[Zuko]

I don't think satellite image can help much to reveal the location of sunken sub though, especially if it's already below 50-100 meter depth. It may be still useful for locating oil spills or large debris - but then again, patrolling aircrafts can also be used for this purpose.


The problem is, many - if not most - journalists aren't well versed in military terms. So they tend to interpret what it means by, say, "static dive" according to what they thought it was and not confirming it back at all.

Another problem is that they often has their own channels directly to the persons in the frontline who were giving them unfiltered informations like the "sonar contact" example you wrote.

Then, if you add sensationalism as a means to generate web traffic for the media they are working for, you got misleading stories as the result.

In my experience, the best way to handle Indonesia media is to use written statements/press releases to reduce possibility of mis-quote and misunderstanding. But even then there is always that possibility for the reasons as you mentioned...

I really pray and hope that we still have time and can rescue our submarine crews......

 

[JATOSINT]

I don't think satellite image can help much to reveal the location of sunken sub though, especially if it's already below 50-100 meter depth. It may be still useful for locating oil spills or large debris - but then again, patrolling aircrafts can also be used for this purpose.


The problem is, many - if not most - journalists aren't well versed in military terms. So they tend to interpret what it means by, say, "static dive" according to what they thought it was and not confirming it back at all.

Another problem is that they often has their own channels directly to the persons in the frontline who were giving them unfiltered informations like the "sonar contact" example you wrote.

Then, if you add sensationalism as a means to generate web traffic for the media they are working for, you got misleading stories as the result.

In my experience, the best way to handle Indonesia media is to use written statements/press releases to reduce possibility of mis-quote and misunderstanding. But even then there is always that possibility for the reasons as you mentioned...

I really pray and hope that we still have time and can rescue our submarine crews......

These + TNI yg jarang/lambat when it comes to making press releases

 

[Van Kravchenko]

Why did ya yo H**ny with P8 ?

AS Bakal Bantu Pencarian KRI Nanggala-402

Amerika Serikat bakal mengerahkan peralatan untuk membantu pencarian kapal selam TNI Angkatan Laut, KRI Nanggala-402.

www.cnnindonesia.com

I think US will deploy Poseidon afterall.

Edit :
933 has arrive at location, and Chief General/great general(panglima) Hadi will onboard to supervision the searching.


The oxygen supply of 402 probably will run out any soon.

I didn't expect too much about crew survivability, but may the sailor and its familly got "kesabaran & ketabahan" and the best sum.

As a peasant, i can only pray for the best.

Thanks 402, thanks all the sailor, i knew all of you are tired; but please resurface one more time.

 

[Anmdt]

The oxygen supply of 402 probably will run out any soon.

It won't,
Those people are trained for such incidents, they can manage to sustain at a lower quality air for longer.
It has 72 of good quality air left, when used as planned while people are actively talking and running errands.
Now they will be in a silent and minimal consumption, also lowering O2 percentage of the air to the safest lowest level, in order to extend the endurance.