Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

Relic

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"If the bombing of Gaza does not stop, we will cut off gas supplies to the world," said Emir Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani

The Qatari authorities are threatening to create a global gas shortage as part of their support for Palestine.

Now it's obvious Russian and Iranian national interests.
Bahahaha sure you will Qatar. You're going to deeply impact your nation's own economy and damage all of your political ties to make a moral argument about Palestine?

Zero chance in hell. Great bluff though!
 

UkroTurk

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Ukrainians should rebel against the Zelensky openly pro- neo Nazi regime as well using this very justification. But they won't anyway.

It's always funny seeing people trying to justify the kind of mental retardation that the Israeli government comes up with.
Who cares about your mood?
What do Ukrainians and Zelensky have to do with this topic.
As a moderator , You must Stick to subject not to persons.

@TR_123456
To be honest, i am tired of being patient from your moderator and your some members .

They will shut up and obey the rules? Or are you creating environment of fanatics and idiots?

Dear members please don't quote me!
Don't reply me!
Just ignore me
 

Afif

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Bahahaha sure you will Qatar. You're going to deeply impact your nation's own economy and damage all of your political ties to make a moral argument about Palestine?

Zero chance in hell. Great bluff though!

First of all, Qatar never said that.

Secondly it was the Europeans that came begging Qatar for the gas after Russian invasion.
 

Gary

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Who cares about your mood?
Mood ? when the fuck did I even talk about mood?
What do Ukrainians and Zelensky have to do with this topic.
As a moderator , You must Stick to subject not to persons.
Consider that you go mad about many of my opinions regarding the legality of Putin's war in Ukraine, I think it is time for me as well to question your own justifications in Gaza.
@TR_123456
To be honest, i am tired of being patient from your moderator and your some members .
your problem mate

They will shut up and obey the rules? Or are you creating environment of fanatics and idiots?

Dear members please don't quote me!
Don't reply me!
Just ignore me
Yes, I'm putting you on ignore lists. bye !
 
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Relic

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An interesting piece by Andrew Axuum a retired U.S army officer and ME scholar about Israel, Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah.


In summary:

1. While the IDF professional core is extremely polished and capable, the Israeli army is and remains a conscript/reservists-based army, the reservists are neither particularly well trained nor well disciplined by American standards.​
2. Today Israel faces highly disciplined and motivated nonstate foes in southern Lebanon and the Palestinian territories, and its military does not seem to have a clear advantage over them at the unit level.​
3. The segregation of Palestinians and the erection of walls helped the IDF to be in the dark about HAMAS movements.​
4. The few Hezbollah fighters he met in 2006, for the most part, as motivated, well-trained, and disciplined. Those who fought in the 2006 war with Israel retained a certain amount of wary respect for the U.S. military but held their Israeli adversaries in contempt. They had seen Israeli soldiers in action—and had not been impressed.​
5. IDF has discipline issues,: In 2006, Hezbollah was able to locate Israeli positions by intercepting Israeli reservists calling home on their mobile phones.​
6. Hezbollah fighters he interviewed also give little appreciation when it comes to Iran : "A friend of mine questioned a Hezbollah fighter after 2006 about the training he had received from Iran, and his interlocutor scoffed in reply, “Iran? When was the last time those guys won a war?”
I actually think the author has some points here. That's why I've been saying that if Israel has their own soldiers best interests in mind, they'll priotize air strikes and artillery barrages, rather than conduct a ground war against the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah. They possess significant advantages from range, but far less so from the ground.

Russia is finding that out the hard way in Ukraine. When they stuck to artillery attacks and airstrikes they had a lot of success. When they committed to ground offensives is was complete disaster for them and they've chewed through the majority of best troops and armor. Ground offensives in this day and age are extremely costly. Yes they serve to keep collateral damage to civilians down, but they're super costly.
 

Relic

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First of all, Qatar never said that.

Secondly it was the Europeans that came begging Qatar for the gas after Russian invasion.
Come on man, the drama in this post is beneath you. "The Europeans came begging"... They didn't want to pay Russia for their natural gas and help the Russians fund their war in Ukraine. Qatar saw an opportunity to step in, with American support and make a shit ton of money selling gas to the EU. You act like the Qatar did Europe a favour and filled up their natural gas reserves for free.

It was international business between two willing partners lol. That's like saying I went to the grocery store begging them to sell me food so I wouldn't starve lol. Nope, they were happy to have a paying customer.
 

Gary

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I actually think the author has some points here. That's why I've been saying that if Israel has their own soldiers best interests in mind, they'll priotize air strikes and artillery barrages, rather than conduct a ground war against the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah. They possess significant advantages from range, but far less so from the ground.

Russia is finding that out the hard way in Ukraine. When they stuck to artillery attacks and airstrikes they had a lot of success. When they committed to ground offensives is was complete disaster for them and they've chewed through the majority of best troops and armor. Ground offensives in this day and age are extremely costly. Yes they serve to keep collateral damage to civilians down, but they're super costly.

The largest urban warfare campaign pre-2022 Russian assault on Kyiv is the 2016 Battle for Mosul, where 5000 ISIS troops, held 100,000 Iraqi-Kurdish troops...for 9 months. Under relentless coalition airstrikes and artillery barrages.

Hamas has 40,000 troops inside Gaza, with not only the urban settings but this time with a very complex tunnel system underneath it.

IDF well-trained but small in size professional corps could face heavy losses, near annihilation akin to that of Ukraine's "elite" assault unit in Bakhmut. Could be even worse if Hezbollah enters the war from the North ( I'm not sure if Hezbollah will enter though).
 

Bogeyman 

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Come on man, the drama in this post is beneath you. "The Europeans came begging"... They didn't want to pay Russia for their natural gas and help the Russians fund their war in Ukraine. Qatar saw an opportunity to step in, with American support and make a shit ton of money selling gas to the EU. You act like the Qatar did Europe a favour and filled up their natural gas reserves for free.

It was international business between two willing partners lol. That's like saying I went to the grocery store begging them to sell me food so I wouldn't starve lol. Nope, they were happy to have a paying customer.
No, on the contrary, most European countries did not have a proper infrastructure and experienced bureaucrats to import LNG. They were in disgrace. And most importantly, they had to find LNG before the natural gas in the warehouse ran out.
 

GoatsMilk

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Best example Why democracy should be protected with forbids.

If you don't protect your right someone could come and remove your add.


If you really think about it, you got two sets of fanatical ideologies warring with each other in Isreal/Palestine. The political islamists and the zionists. While the political islamists have no real technology or industry, the zionists have the backing of the great powers of the west.

Both are bad news, its just in that region one is worse then the other in terms of the scale of crimes being committed.
 

Bozan

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Tunisia canceled the migrant deal with the EU. They announced that the sea borders are open for anyone who wants to cross to Europe.

While they can't deal with Libya alone, the whole Mediterranean will be flooded with migrants. I think we should be prepared to follow a similar policy. If the EU declares its support for a massacre, it cannot and must no longer be immune from the cost.


They also handed back €60 million euros, I doubt most countries can afford this. Those migrants will end up in Iraq, TR, Lebanon etc
 

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The largest urban warfare campaign pre-2022 Russian assault on Kyiv is the 2016 Battle for Mosul, where 5000 ISIS troops, held 100,000 Iraqi-Kurdish troops...for 9 months. Under relentless coalition airstrikes and artillery barrages.

Hamas has 40,000 troops inside Gaza, with not only the urban settings but this time with a very complex tunnel system underneath it.

I am pretty sure, it is gonna be a hell of a fight.

Not to mention, they have much better training, organisation and C2 than ISIS.
This very operation was a demonstration of their capabilities.
 

Relic

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The largest urban warfare campaign pre-2022 Russian assault on Kyiv is the 2016 Battle for Mosul, where 5000 ISIS troops, held 100,000 Iraqi-Kurdish troops...for 9 months. Under relentless coalition airstrikes and artillery barrages.

Hamas has 40,000 troops inside Gaza, with not only the urban settings but this time with a very complex tunnel system underneath it.

IDF well-trained but small in size professional corps could face heavy losses, near annihilation akin to that of Ukraine's "elite" assault unit in Bakhmut. Could be even worse if Hezbollah enters the war from the North ( I'm not sure if Hezbollah will enter though).
The Kyiv assault an absolute disaster for the Russians. One of the best decisions they've made in the war war abandoning that plan before that entire convoy was shattered.

If you want a good example of how to do a ground war, it's to do it in combined arms fashion with the expertise the USA and Britain did it with when they absolutely walked through Iraq's Republican Guard during the First Gulf War.

The joint American-British armata smashed Hussein's Soviet equipped army with little resistance and crushed the their Air Force to the point that the Iraqi's were burying their Migs in the sand out of fear of putting them in the air. That was a textbook combined arms offensive.

Another great example of a textbook offensive was the second battle of Fallujah, in which an American led assault ended in only 107 Allies troops being killed, and Al-Qaeda and their allies were absolutely routed, with an estimated 75%-80% of their forces killed or captured and the city taken in short order.
 

Relic

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I am pretty sure, it is gonna be a hell of a fight.

Not to mention, they have much better training, organisation and C2 than ISIS.
This very operation was a demonstration of their capabilities.
I think it could be an excellent fight as well. When the U.S. invaded Iraq, they dropped 29,000 air launched munitions on Hussein's troops prior to commencing the offensive. I don't think Israel will be anywhere near that initially. They'll need substantial shipments of air launched ordinance from the United States to keep that level of drone / missile strikes up. They'd need a large numbers of JDAMS for 1000 and 2000lb bombs, paveway bombs, bunker busters and cruise missiles. I'm also curious to see how many GMLRS they're able to get into the fight, as well as precision 155mm artillery rounds. I genuinely have no clue how many of those ground launched, precision munitions that Israel has. Furthermore, they'll really have get their drones involved. Hellfire missiles could be excellent support with the help of spotter drones, without putting their more vulnerable (and expensive) Apache helicopters at risk.

I wouldn't be shocked if Israel gets an air ordinance package valued at a couple billion usd to shore up their stockpiles so that they can advance slowly and maximize the damage on Hamas along the way.

Then comes the question of artillery. How much will they engage their 155mm M109's with conventional HE rounds? Is Gaza simply too densely built to risk the collateral of their use? Quite possibly.

A key component of this battle will be the tunnel system beneath Gaza. Can Israel collapse enough buildings on top of it to narrow the entry and exit points? Can they station enough drones in the area to find some of the more complicated entrances / exits. Then, when they find some of the tunnel systems, do they have enough ordinance designed to strike deep into ground collapse the tunnels and infrastructure?
 
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Gary

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I am pretty sure, it is gonna be a hell of a fight.

Not to mention, they have much better training, organisation and C2 than ISIS.
This very operation was a demonstration of their capabilities.

IMO, ISIS is the Middle East best fighting force we have seen for quite some time now. If you think Hamas's surprise attack with 1500 troops that managed to hold a few villages sized Kibbutz for a few days is impressive, what would you say for ISIS who managed to capture capital city-sized settlements using just half (800) the number Hamas has against a defending force of 60,000 Iraqis.

What Hamas has in advantage compared to ISIS defense of Mosul is that Gaza is not only larger in size than Mosul, it also has more larger footprint with more dense satellite cities surrounding it. It would help as a breakwater to destroy the concentration of troops, not only that Gaza is also more dense and I believe their sub-terranean tunnels are a lot more complex than that of ISIS had for Mosul if they have any to begin with.
 

Gary

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If you want a good example of how to do a ground war, it's to do it in combined arms fashion with the expertise the USA and Britain did it with when they absolutely walked through Iraq's Republican Guard during the First Gulf War.

The joint American-British armata smashed Hussein's Soviet equipped army with little resistance and crushed the their Air Force to the point that the Iraqi's were burying their Migs in the sand out of fear of putting them in the air. That was a textbook combined arms offensive.
Operation Desert Storm are classic theater maneuver battle, not urban warfare where advances are measured street-by street.
Another great example of a textbook offensive was the second battle of Fallujah, in which an American led assault ended in only 107 Allies troops being killed, and Al-Qaeda and their allies were absolutely routed, with an estimated 75%-80% of their forces killed or captured and the city taken in short order.

Fallujah is very small compared to Gaza, both in its layout, the complexity of its terrain and the defender are even defended by worsely trained OPFOR.

Yet, they managed to hold the US military machine for 1 month.
 

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