Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

[Gary]

 

[Ryder]

As usual they always pick on kids.

 

[Kartal1]

@mehmed beg

Now say it again but without getting personal.

Message was deleted and warning was given.

 

[Bozan]

Let’s hear it from somebody who actually watched the whole footage.

And I find it disturbing that you are presenting IDF edited video as factual representation.

I said before. those totally destroyed house clearly indelicate heavy shelling. Hamas fighters simply don’t have the firepower to do that kind of damage.

And in the end of the video that fully burnt car along all passenger with a huge downward hole in the roof clearly indicate Israeli air strike.

The person who's tweet I linked also watched it and said the same thing as Owen did in his video at 3 minutes in, I'm just watching the rest of Owen's video. But it's clear Hamas targetted civilians and celebrated the footage they were recording and sharing.

Owen is arguing that we should not therefore as a result of these atrocities give Israel carte blanche to respond however harsh They want.

I don't see this position as contradicting mine, which is that Hamas is a terrorist organization that kidnapped and massacred civilians.

 

[mehmed beg]

@mehmed beg

Now say it again but without getting personal.

Message was deleted and warning was given.

Personal you say? Let me paraphrase what that person said " Hamas is the worst terrorist organization ever"
Didn't he say so?
So for you as a Turk, Hamas is worse than Dashnak , Hunchuk or PKK
Now tell me sincerely, how a Turkish person can read such a statement and not to spot it? Or how a Turkish person can write such a thing?
Aren't these the valid and logical conclusions?
Moreover, if Israel has the right to " avenge " , and that's what this person implies then Armenians had the to avenge?!
Don't you think that as a Turk, the nation un justly accused of many things , you don't have the right to answer? You can coat it as you like and that person can say it is personal. But there is a simple question.
If Hamas is worst then PKK is better as is Asala, Dashnak and Hunchak , why the Turks who are in this forum accept that? Why if he is a Turk believe that the Jewish victims are more important than Turkish.
Maybe, you understand when someone talks plainly that it is personal? On other hand is it personal to go back to the same topic which was talked about before? Isn't it personal, if someone thinks that Jewish " victims" are more important than the Turkish or Arab . That's what he clearly implies? Isn't it unreasonable to assume that he us pkk sympathiser?
Didn't I say before, the words and the sentences have their literall meaning?
How do you want me to interpret "Hamas are the worst terrorists" ?
Much better than the people who killed 100s of thousands of Turks???.
Am I getting something wrong here?
You see , you can use the niceties but myself I stomp on the snakes head . Considering your and my history. It is right thing to do.
No Merhamet for them. I have it for you but not hin.
Anyway, he is semi literate

 

[Gary]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730582551566110990

 

[Kartal1]

Personal you say? Let me paraphrase what that person said " Hamas is the worst terrorist organization ever"
Didn't he say so?
So for you as a Turk, Hamas is worse than Dashnak , Hunchuk or PKK
Now tell me sincerely, how a Turkish person can read such a statement and not to spot it? Or how a Turkish person can write such a thing?
Aren't these the valid and logical conclusions?
Moreover, if Israel has the right to " avenge " , and that's what this person implies then Armenians had the to avenge?!
Don't you think that as a Turk, the nation un justly accused of many things , you don't have the right to answer? You can coat it as you like and that person can say it is personal. But there is a simple question.
If Hamas is worst then PKK is better as is Asala, Dashnak and Hunchak , why the Turks who are in this forum accept that? Why if he is a Turk believe that the Jewish victims are more important than Turkish.
Maybe, you understand when someone talks plainly that it is personal? On other hand is it personal to go back to the same topic which was talked about before? Isn't it personal, if someone thinks that Jewish " victims" are more important than the Turkish or Arab . That's what he clearly implies? Isn't it unreasonable to assume that he us pkk sympathiser?
Didn't I say before, the words and the sentences have their literall meaning?
How do you want me to interpret "Hamas are the worst terrorists" ?
Much better than the people who killed 100s of thousands of Turks???.
Am I getting something wrong here?
You see , you can use the niceties but myself I stomp on the snakes head . Considering your and my history. It is right thing to do.
No Merhamet for them. I have it for you but not hin.
Anyway, he is semi literate

Who are you exactly to believe in yourself so much that you can judge our members regarding their opinion and try to insult them on this platform?

Here in this forum there is no "which victim is more important" for the moderation. We condemn all kinds of terrorism, criminal activities, atrocities committed by whoever actor it is, no matter if it comes to Istael-Palestine, Russia-Ukraine or Mars-Neptune. We condemn this violence and especially the violence committed by the sides against civilians. If you are not mature enough to drop the tone and discuss these unfortunate developments in a nice and civilized way then this is not the right place for you.

This is a platform where everybody is able to discuss freely and debate. We can not allow this forum to become a center for sorting out personal problems between members. If you do not agree with someone's point of view you are free to attack their arguments and point out the flaws in these agrguments. You are free to defend you point of view but the moment you decide to get personal, then the moderation will get personal with you. I hope I am clear enough.

Now, before you decide to write another message in this style I want you to enter the forum rules page that I posted below and read all of the rules at least 5 times. After that I want you to read the message below the link and decide if you can abide by the rules or not. If the answer is no, let me know and I will help you.

Forum Rules

We are still working on a permanent set of rules, and therefore this list may change. In the meantime we would appreciate it if you adhere to the following rules: Insulting & Name Calling DefenceHub wishes to be a platform of productive exchange of ideas. In this context insulting & name...

defencehub.live

We are against all kinds of attacks against civilians. I say again, NO MATTER ON WHICH SIDE OF THE BORDER THEY ARE LIVING. In order to prevent another meaningless discussion on who is civilian, the answer is given below:

THE TEAM OF THE FORUM CONSIDERS EVERYBODY WHICH IS NOT NAMED BELOW AS CIVILIANS

1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:



a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

c) that of carrying arms openly;

d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.



3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

[...]

6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

 

[Bozan]

Personal you say? Let me paraphrase what that person said " Hamas is the worst terrorist organization ever"
Didn't he say so?
So for you as a Turk, Hamas is worse than Dashnak , Hunchuk or PKK
Now tell me sincerely, how a Turkish person can read such a statement and not to spot it? Or how a Turkish person can write such a thing?
Aren't these the valid and logical conclusions?
Moreover, if Israel has the right to " avenge " , and that's what this person implies then Armenians had the to avenge?!
Don't you think that as a Turk, the nation un justly accused of many things , you don't have the right to answer? You can coat it as you like and that person can say it is personal. But there is a simple question.
If Hamas is worst then PKK is better as is Asala, Dashnak and Hunchak , why the Turks who are in this forum accept that? Why if he is a Turk believe that the Jewish victims are more important than Turkish.
Maybe, you understand when someone talks plainly that it is personal? On other hand is it personal to go back to the same topic which was talked about before? Isn't it personal, if someone thinks that Jewish " victims" are more important than the Turkish or Arab . That's what he clearly implies? Isn't it unreasonable to assume that he us pkk sympathiser?
Didn't I say before, the words and the sentences have their literall meaning?
How do you want me to interpret "Hamas are the worst terrorists" ?
Much better than the people who killed 100s of thousands of Turks???.
Am I getting something wrong here?
You see , you can use the niceties but myself I stomp on the snakes head . Considering your and my history. It is right thing to do.
No Merhamet for them. I have it for you but not hin.
Anyway, he is semi literate

I am semi literate ? I cannot even see a paragraph in what you write, it's just a mess of angry words because you are so triggered that I said Hamas are terrorists. You can cry to AKP and Huda-Par, they love your Hamas. I stand by what I said.

I ask you again, if the PKK, dashnak, hunchak or munchak launched an attack that killed this many civilians in one day, nobody will be holding TR back from revenge to eradicate this group in every geography immediately.

Israel is going to eradicate Hamas as a must for national security, there is no other choice for Israel's government, even if the government changes to the most liberal leftist government ever. No government would tolerate a group that can kill hundreds of civilians in one day, film the murders and celebrate it on the streets, kidnap your civilians, launch rockets at your houses and all with the support of a hostile power that wants to go nuclear.

I don't understand your position at all.


And I completely understand why people say Hamas is worse than ISIS, even if ISIS caused more harm. Because ISIS is not supported openly. But Hamas is and by world leaders. Even if they share footage of them murdering civilians, they are supported. It doesn't matter if the Israeli government is the worst in the world, if you think some terrorism is okay because of your idealogical beliefs then you are encouraging terrorism.

If the PKK shared lots of footage of hundreds of Turkish civilians they murdered in an attack which was celebrated and justified GLOBALLY on social media by millions of people that you would see easily on social media and by WORLD LEADERS I bet you would be acting the same way as Israelis are. All of us would be.

 

[Gary]

Hamas killed/injured 9 israeli terrorists in Jerusalem

https://www.timesofisrael.com/three-killed-6-injured-in-terror-shooting-at-jerusalem-entrance-bus-stop/

Three killed, several injured in shooting at Jerusalem bus stop

Two gunmen were also killed by police shortly after opening fire on the crowd.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Bozan]

Hamas killed/injured 9 israeli terrorists in Jerusalem

https://www.timesofisrael.com/three-killed-6-injured-in-terror-shooting-at-jerusalem-entrance-bus-stop/

Three killed, several injured in shooting at Jerusalem bus stop

Two gunmen were also killed by police shortly after opening fire on the crowd.

www.aljazeera.com

The terrorists you are referring to are some civilians at a bus stop. Are you serious ?

 

[Gary]

The terrorists you are referring to are some civilians at a bus stop. Are you serious ?

How do you know they're civilians ? I mean in Israel, ladies in casual dress are shopping in the mall with an AR strapped on their shoulders, there are picture(s) of them around the internet.

 

[Bozan]

How do you know they're civilians ? I mean in Israel, ladies in casual dress are shopping in the mall with an AR strapped on their shoulders, there are picture(s) of them around the internet.

You know in America you are allowed to possess a weapon as a self defence weapon and still be classed as a civilian right? Those in the picture are still civilians to me as it is legal for them to possess and carry a firearm with permits

Office of Justice Programs | Office of Justice Programs

OJP is the federal government’s leading source of funding and research to strengthen the justice system, support law enforcement, and enhance victim services.

www.ojp.gov

 

[Afif]

You know in America you are allowed to possess a weapon as a self defence weapon and still be classed as a civilian right? Those in the picture are still civilians to me.

They have compulsory military training, they are designated as reservists and they are carrying guns.

They are not terrorist, but they are armed combatants.

 

[Afif]

I am semi literate ? I cannot even see a paragraph in what you write, it's just a mess of angry words because you are so triggered that I said Hamas are terrorists. You can cry to AKP and Huda-Par, they love your Hamas. I stand by what I said.

I ask you again, if the PKK, dashnak, hunchak or munchak launched an attack that killed this many civilians in one day, nobody will be holding TR back from revenge to eradicate this group in every geography immediately.

Israel is going to eradicate Hamas as a must for national security, there is no other choice for Israel's government, even if the government changes to the most liberal leftist government ever. No government would tolerate a group that can kill hundreds of civilians in one day, film the murders and celebrate it on the streets, kidnap your civilians, launch rockets at your houses and all with the support of a hostile power that wants to go nuclear.

I don't understand your position at all.


And I completely understand why people say Hamas is worse than ISIS, even if ISIS caused more harm. Because ISIS is not supported openly. But Hamas is and by world leaders. Even if they share footage of them murdering civilians, they are supported. It doesn't matter if the Israeli government is the worst in the world, if you think some terrorism is okay because of your idealogical beliefs then you are encouraging terrorism.

If the PKK shared lots of footage of hundreds of Turkish civilians they murdered in an attack which was celebrated and justified GLOBALLY on social media by millions of people that you would see easily on social media and by WORLD LEADERS I bet you would be acting the same way as Israelis are. All of us would be.

Okay, Hamas is a terrorist organization.

but I am just curious, do you think (irrespective of Hamas) Palestinian has the right to armed struggle against IDF to resist the illegal occupation?

 

[Bozan]

They have compulsory military training, they are designated as reservists and they are carrying guns.

They are not terrorist, but they are armed combatants.

I disagree and think this argument is being used to justify killing civilians. TR has compulsory military service as well.

 

[Gary]

You know in America you are allowed to possess a weapon as a self defence weapon and still be classed as a civilian right? Those in the picture are still civilians to me as it is legal for them to possess and carry a firearm with permits

Office of Justice Programs | Office of Justice Programs

OJP is the federal government’s leading source of funding and research to strengthen the justice system, support law enforcement, and enhance victim services.

www.ojp.gov

But this is in occupied Palestine we're talking about, not the U.S.

And it's not like these 'civilians' use that for 'self-defense' (whatever that means). Most of the time they use it to kill for fun anyway, they need to be neutralized.

Israeli settler shoots Palestinian man dead in occupied West Bank

Eyewitness reports say Israeli troops prevented an ambulance from reaching the victim

new.thecradle.co

 

[Bozan]

Okay, Hamas is a terrorist organization.

but I am just curious, do you think (irrespective of Hamas) Palestinian has the right to armed struggle against IDF to resist the illegal occupation?

Yes, but it won't get them anywhere. Which is why Hamas is instead attacking civilians and using terror tactics. They saved the right wing Netanyahu Israeli government for the aspirations of Iran. The timing was great for Netanyahu and Ben Gvir

 

[Gary]

Even Western law made it clear what constitutes a civilian in times of war.

“Civilian” means, in an international armed conflict, any person who does not belong to the armed forces and does not take part in a “levée en masse”. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian or not, that person must be considered to be a civilian.

Civilian population | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook

casebook.icrc.org

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231011-far-right-israel-mk-to-distribute-10000-rifles-to-settlers/

From October 7th special ops, we know that many of these "levee en masse' uses civilian car to mobilize, instead of tanks and apc. strange. But I believe Hamas had already indetified the terror source and neutralized it before they become a menace to society.

 

[Bozan]

Even Western law made it clear what constitutes a civilian in times of war.

“Civilian” means, in an international armed conflict, any person who does not belong to the armed forces and does not take part in a “levée en masse”. In case of doubt whether a person is a civilian or not, that person must be considered to be a civilian.

Civilian population | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook

casebook.icrc.org

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231011-far-right-israel-mk-to-distribute-10000-rifles-to-settlers/

From October 7th special ops, we know that many of these "levee en masse' uses civilian car to mobilize, instead of tanks and apc. strange. But I believe Hamas had already indetified the terror source and neutralized it before they become a menace to society.

Military reservists are civilians unless they are performing military duties. Shopping with a rifle on the back "just in case" still means civilian.

 

[Gary]

Military reservists are civilians unless they are performing military duties. Shopping with a rifle on the back "just in case" still means civilian.

Said no one ever.

These German soldiers (most of whom are reservists) are killed in cold blood while being so far away from the front in Paris.

Reinhard Heydrich died when he was shot while riding a car, in Prague, which btw, in 1942 are hundreds of km away from the Soviet frontline

That's not hpw it works, the moment you bear arms when Levee en Masse is issued, you are a military target.