Breaking News Israel strikes Doha

[Huelague]

Why Trump can’t fight Israel:
(German)

 

[GoatsMilk]

Why Trump can’t fight Israel:
(German)

i always find it hilarious when the media portrayed him as the anti-establishment guy. When in reality he's always been an establishment guy. His grandfather worked for the rockkerfellars too. He's 100% a bankers product.

 

[begturan]

I dont want to be a party popper but the fact that they are increasing the frequency of such talks within public circles indicate that the Israeli army is preparing for it seriously

Even the attack on Doha was mentioned dozens of times for the last few months before it occured. It is a common Israeli tactic to guage public opinion before they take an action to see whether it can be done without too much damage

Now lets get on the serious talk; If Israel wanna hit Turkey, then they will hit Turkey and none can stop them. Turkey's AD system is still small and Turkish airspace is quite large to cover. Moreover, Turkey doesnt have the necessary tools to carry out an effective counterattack against Israel

People in this forum needs to understand how Israel operates:
Israel knows that if it wants to win a war against the Turks, it must be conducted under Israeli terms and tempo; which is something they know they wont be able to do after 5-10 years when many Turkish defence systems mature and become effective. That is why they are hurrying to divide Syria, occupy more lands in Palestine and Lebanon etc... Turkey, on the other hand, knows that it cant wait 5-10 years for its systems to mature to fight against Israel with an advantage since by the time such systems mature, all of Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine will be gone and the frontline will shift to the Turkish borders (that is if there is a Turkey at this point due to massive refugee influx). Moreover, Turkey cant really get rid of such refugees as they will be mainly the pro-Turkish citizens of such nations and if they got annihilated, then Turkey's fate is set to experience a neverending war on its borders

Turkey's primary goal for now should be the immediate destruction of the SDF and to unite all of Syria to act as a shield protecting Turkey from Israel while Turkey will ensure that Syria becomes an advanced, effective, army over time. Israel knows that very well and that is why they are doing their utmost to prevent Turkey from fighting the SDF/PKK either by weakening Syrian army or even forcing Turkey into a direct confrontation with Israel right now, which they will win with their current arsenal and US support.

All in all, if any Israeli strike did hit Turkey, then do know that its main goal is to divert Turkey from fighting the SDF by having Turkey fight Israel while the Turks not being at their best

You've touched on an important point: Yes, Israel's true goal is to divide, fragment, and destroy Türkiye. They dream of an empire that will then enslave all of humanity, and Turkey is the only obstacle standing in their way.

They first established their state by destroying the Ottoman Empire, and now they dream of dominating the world by destroying the Turkish race. This is the reality.

 

[begturan]

Read my post bro
I never said you "couldnt" attack but I mentioned that Turkey doesnt have the necessary weapons to make it an EFFECTIVE counterattack

Türkiye is not as helpless as you think, Türkiye does not feel weak at all when it comes to fighting Israel. Preparations have already been made for the worst-case scenarios. Even if they catch us at our weakest moment and try to make us drown in America, this will be their own downfall.

 

[Huelague]

It seems US was deeply involved and Egypt and Türkiye warned Qatar about that.

 

[mTT]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1966434069480087763

 

[nick.f76]

https://www.defence-point.gr/poia-stasi-tha-tirisei-to-nato-se-sygkroysi-toyrkias-israil

What stance will NATO take if Turkey and Israel clash?

In times of generalized unrest and insecurity for leaderships and societies where all traditional balances are being questioned, being under review, Turkey could not be an exception. In fact, it is a country that is trying to escape from the disproportionately greater insecurity compared to Greece, by “fleeing forward”. Faithful to the doctrine “the best defense is offense”, it seeks to create a favorable environment and the next day to find itself among the winners. And in terms of influence and mainly having expanded its borders.
The main current issue in Ankara is the Israeli strike on Doha, Qatar, aimed at further beheading the Hamas leadership in revenge for what happened on October 7, 2023, even though negotiations are underway for the release of more Israeli hostages. Turkey's frequent hosting of the organization's leaders and its support as an organization inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood have raised legitimate concerns that Turkey may also be targeted by Israel.
According to reports and publications in the Turkish media, Turkey has decided that it is not particularly worried, as it is a different size. But Iran was too. However, the Turks consider the probability low, with the main argument being its status as a NATO member state and the possibility of invoking Article 5! Although Ankara consistently diverges from allied policies (e.g. Ukraine where it also maintains close relations with Russia), it chooses to consider that the Alliance will come to its aid.
The Turks also fear an attempt at internal destabilization by the Israelis, while they consider themselves very strong militarily. In other words, they believe they are erecting a wall of deterrence against potential Israeli plans.
However, regarding the prospect of NATO involvement, the situation is beginning to resemble the corresponding problem in Greece! Israel is not a member state and Turkey is actively moving to sever any relationship between the Jewish state and the Atlantic Alliance. The Turkish reasoning, however, seems extremely problematic. It seems very optimistic for the Turks to believe that there will be no member states that will move to block any thought of Turkey's assistance in the event of military involvement with Israel. Besides, this should concern a threat to its territorial sovereignty, not an external one...
Greece is aware that, apart from NATO's behind-the-scenes mobilization to prevent an outbreak – or if it does occur to extinguish the “fire” – it cannot realistically expect NATO troops to intervene, because Turkey is an ally. Thus, the Turkish veto only invalidates the formal part regarding the treatment of the Jewish state as an ally. In the event of a Turkey-Israeli conflict, it is very risky to assume that Turkey will enjoy.
The revisionist nature of the Turkish strategy has begun to backfire on its initiators, with the result that dilemmas are piling up. Action brings reaction and Turkey could not be an exception to the rule. In the writer's opinion, Turkish revisionism has its roots in Turkish insecurity and the classic persecution syndrome that accompanies it. Common elements could also be distinguished in the psyche of Turks and Israelis, at least in the aspect that concerns historical insecurity, as a factor that determines the perception of both for their national security.
The revisionist nature of the Turkish strategy has begun to backfire on its initiators, with the result that dilemmas are piling up. Action brings reaction and Turkey could not be an exception to the rule. In the writer's opinion, Turkish revisionism has its roots in Turkish insecurity and the classic persecution syndrome that accompanies it. Common elements could also be distinguished in the psyche of Turks and Israelis, at least in the aspect that concerns historical insecurity, as a factor that determines the perception of both for their national security.
Of course, Ankara does not recognize the Kurds' right to create their own state, as it does for the Palestinians. For decades, it has chosen the violent Turkification of ethnic groups that historically inhabit present-day Turkish territory. It is doing the same in Thrace with the Pomaks and the Roma. Always within the framework of its revisionist planning. The Kurds, however, have historically posed a threat to the territorial integrity of present-day Turkey. They may reside in four different countries (Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran), but in Turkey they are by far the most populous component. Consequently, wherever a Kurdish state emerges, it will mobilize centrifugal tendencies.
This created a common interest among the countries hosting Kurdish communities. The game was known for a long time and all four of these countries were involved in it. However, when other issues arose between the countries hosting Kurdish communities, they were used as a tool to destabilize the opponent! In the current transitional phase of the international system, however, this game has changed. Iraq and Syria have gradually been destabilized, while Iran has also been targeted. And from this alone, Turkey has every reason to fear that its turn is coming.
However, the problem for Turkey is that it realizes that all these developments are a chain of events that are interconnected and that they blame exclusively on Israel! It is no exaggeration to claim that the Turks today consider the greatest threat to their national security to be the Jewish state.
Now, Turkey has gained direct contact with its main enemy on the Syrian front. The absence of self-criticism conceals, or so they think in Ankara, the fact that the conditions that led to this outcome were created by the Turks with their choices! By moving aggressively on the Syrian front, they did not correctly calculate how much Israel's security environment would be affected. Turkey was the orchestrator of both the overthrow of Assad in Syria and the establishment of the hardline Islamist Jolani (now Saraa).
However, the Israelis, who had been observing developments very closely from the beginning and having built very close relations with the Kurdish element of the region for decades, did not intend to let the new leadership develop into a regime, and even one dependent on Ankara. The significant difference is that the Jewish state does not let situations develop when it considers them potentially harmful to its national security, but actively moves to prevent any risk from developing into a fait accompli.
In short, it adopts a diametrically opposed stance to Greece. And it does not focus exclusively on its neighborhood, but attacks harshly against anyone who supports Turkey and is supported by it. The blow to Doha, Qatar, is also part of this context. Therefore, it is no surprise that it caused obvious concern among the Turks, who also offer asylum to Hamas. Although Turkey is obviously a different size, its arrogant assessments of strong deterrence, with little expectation of support from NATO, cannot disguise the generalized insecurity…

 

[AlperTunga]

https://www.defence-point.gr/poia-stasi-tha-tirisei-to-nato-se-sygkroysi-toyrkias-israil

What stance will NATO take if Turkey and Israel clash?

In times of generalized unrest and insecurity for leaderships and societies where all traditional balances are being questioned, being under review, Turkey could not be an exception. In fact, it is a country that is trying to escape from the disproportionately greater insecurity compared to Greece, by “fleeing forward”. Faithful to the doctrine “the best defense is offense”, it seeks to create a favorable environment and the next day to find itself among the winners. And in terms of influence and mainly having expanded its borders.
The main current issue in Ankara is the Israeli strike on Doha, Qatar, aimed at further beheading the Hamas leadership in revenge for what happened on October 7, 2023, even though negotiations are underway for the release of more Israeli hostages. Turkey's frequent hosting of the organization's leaders and its support as an organization inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood have raised legitimate concerns that Turkey may also be targeted by Israel.
According to reports and publications in the Turkish media, Turkey has decided that it is not particularly worried, as it is a different size. But Iran was too. However, the Turks consider the probability low, with the main argument being its status as a NATO member state and the possibility of invoking Article 5! Although Ankara consistently diverges from allied policies (e.g. Ukraine where it also maintains close relations with Russia), it chooses to consider that the Alliance will come to its aid.
The Turks also fear an attempt at internal destabilization by the Israelis, while they consider themselves very strong militarily. In other words, they believe they are erecting a wall of deterrence against potential Israeli plans.
However, regarding the prospect of NATO involvement, the situation is beginning to resemble the corresponding problem in Greece! Israel is not a member state and Turkey is actively moving to sever any relationship between the Jewish state and the Atlantic Alliance. The Turkish reasoning, however, seems extremely problematic. It seems very optimistic for the Turks to believe that there will be no member states that will move to block any thought of Turkey's assistance in the event of military involvement with Israel. Besides, this should concern a threat to its territorial sovereignty, not an external one...
Greece is aware that, apart from NATO's behind-the-scenes mobilization to prevent an outbreak – or if it does occur to extinguish the “fire” – it cannot realistically expect NATO troops to intervene, because Turkey is an ally. Thus, the Turkish veto only invalidates the formal part regarding the treatment of the Jewish state as an ally. In the event of a Turkey-Israeli conflict, it is very risky to assume that Turkey will enjoy.
The revisionist nature of the Turkish strategy has begun to backfire on its initiators, with the result that dilemmas are piling up. Action brings reaction and Turkey could not be an exception to the rule. In the writer's opinion, Turkish revisionism has its roots in Turkish insecurity and the classic persecution syndrome that accompanies it. Common elements could also be distinguished in the psyche of Turks and Israelis, at least in the aspect that concerns historical insecurity, as a factor that determines the perception of both for their national security.
The revisionist nature of the Turkish strategy has begun to backfire on its initiators, with the result that dilemmas are piling up. Action brings reaction and Turkey could not be an exception to the rule. In the writer's opinion, Turkish revisionism has its roots in Turkish insecurity and the classic persecution syndrome that accompanies it. Common elements could also be distinguished in the psyche of Turks and Israelis, at least in the aspect that concerns historical insecurity, as a factor that determines the perception of both for their national security.
Of course, Ankara does not recognize the Kurds' right to create their own state, as it does for the Palestinians. For decades, it has chosen the violent Turkification of ethnic groups that historically inhabit present-day Turkish territory. It is doing the same in Thrace with the Pomaks and the Roma. Always within the framework of its revisionist planning. The Kurds, however, have historically posed a threat to the territorial integrity of present-day Turkey. They may reside in four different countries (Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran), but in Turkey they are by far the most populous component. Consequently, wherever a Kurdish state emerges, it will mobilize centrifugal tendencies.
This created a common interest among the countries hosting Kurdish communities. The game was known for a long time and all four of these countries were involved in it. However, when other issues arose between the countries hosting Kurdish communities, they were used as a tool to destabilize the opponent! In the current transitional phase of the international system, however, this game has changed. Iraq and Syria have gradually been destabilized, while Iran has also been targeted. And from this alone, Turkey has every reason to fear that its turn is coming.
However, the problem for Turkey is that it realizes that all these developments are a chain of events that are interconnected and that they blame exclusively on Israel! It is no exaggeration to claim that the Turks today consider the greatest threat to their national security to be the Jewish state.
Now, Turkey has gained direct contact with its main enemy on the Syrian front. The absence of self-criticism conceals, or so they think in Ankara, the fact that the conditions that led to this outcome were created by the Turks with their choices! By moving aggressively on the Syrian front, they did not correctly calculate how much Israel's security environment would be affected. Turkey was the orchestrator of both the overthrow of Assad in Syria and the establishment of the hardline Islamist Jolani (now Saraa).
However, the Israelis, who had been observing developments very closely from the beginning and having built very close relations with the Kurdish element of the region for decades, did not intend to let the new leadership develop into a regime, and even one dependent on Ankara. The significant difference is that the Jewish state does not let situations develop when it considers them potentially harmful to its national security, but actively moves to prevent any risk from developing into a fait accompli.
In short, it adopts a diametrically opposed stance to Greece. And it does not focus exclusively on its neighborhood, but attacks harshly against anyone who supports Turkey and is supported by it. The blow to Doha, Qatar, is also part of this context. Therefore, it is no surprise that it caused obvious concern among the Turks, who also offer asylum to Hamas. Although Turkey is obviously a different size, its arrogant assessments of strong deterrence, with little expectation of support from NATO, cannot disguise the generalized insecurity…

Because of the mistakes made in the past, Turkey may not be in the best form currently to respond to Israel/US the way they deserve. But our eyes have been opened, when those people in Israel whom (or whose relatives) we have accepted and protected from persecution in the past are calling for Israel to attack Turkey. Turkey will engage with Israel at the time it chooses and at its terms. It will show strategic patience now but the punishment will be harsh when the time comes. Israel has just fucked up by gaining (out of no sensible reason) a mighty enemy in the future, whose brave soldiers will be those powerful servants of the God to fulfill the fourth prophecy: "If ye revert to yvel wee shall revert to punyschment!"

 

[BalkanTurk90]

Btw. after attacking Iran Israel realized they can do the same to us with a bit more difficulty, but certainly within their capability. That‘s why they put Iran aside for now. So my humble suggestion: stop building patrol vessels and mugem. Instead build AD systems, ballistic missiles etc like there is no tomorrow! Indeed there may not be one if we dont open our eyes.

AD is effective in long full out war like in Russia vs Ukraine war with 1000+ km frontline . AD keep away most fighter aircrafts as we see at Ukraine war , BUT those attack from İsrael are more like special operation from top secret agency when they use very steathy aircrafts but aslo stand off weapons and those weapons because of low numbers and price u cant use 24/7 ,but u can use to bomb a high VİP target like İsrael is doing , U said to produce AD like Siper , nice but those AD work with Radars and now how they can intercept the steath stand off weapon when they are steathy ? Can u tell me ?
İsrael dont want to go fight Turkiye for years with all of its airforce that our AD will keep them away . İsrael juat want to bomb hamas in Turkiye and thats it and even if we have 50 Batteries of Çelik kubbe , they can hit Hamas inside Turkiye because those special operation noone can stop nor US or China ,Russia.
The best for us is that we aslo should produce super steathy stand off weapons of some 500km range . We have SOM but i dont think its very steathy. While İsraeli might have those and are top secret just like their steathy drone that noone know.

 

[Pokemonte13]

AD is effective in long full out war like in Russia vs Ukraine war with 1000+ km frontline . AD keep away most fighter aircrafts as we see at Ukraine war , BUT those attack from İsrael are more like special operation from top secret agency when they use very steathy aircrafts but aslo stand off weapons and those weapons because of low numbers and price u cant use 24/7 ,but u can use to bomb a high VİP target like İsrael is doing , U said to produce AD like Siper , nice but those AD work with Radars and now how they can intercept the steath stand off weapon when they are steathy ? Can u tell me ?
İsrael dont want to do fight Turkiye for years with all of its airforce that our AD will keep them away . İsrael juat want to bomb hamas in Turkiye and thats it and even if we have 50 Batteries of Çelik kubbe , they can hit Hamas inside Turkiye because those special operation noone can stop nor US or China ,Russia.
The best for us is that we aslo should produce super steathy stand off weapons of some 500km range . We have SOM but i dont think its very steathy. While İsraeli might have those and are top secret just like their steathy drone that noone know.

Well there was kgk lr but that is a bomb with wings at best 100 km range but could be stealthier than a full fledged cruise missile also stealth doesn't make you invisible the closer you get to a decent radar the higher the chance is can get a lock especially with uhf radar

 

[AlperTunga]

AD is effective in long full out war like in Russia vs Ukraine war with 1000+ km frontline . AD keep away most fighter aircrafts as we see at Ukraine war , BUT those attack from İsrael are more like special operation from top secret agency when they use very steathy aircrafts but aslo stand off weapons and those weapons because of low numbers and price u cant use 24/7 ,but u can use to bomb a high VİP target like İsrael is doing , U said to produce AD like Siper , nice but those AD work with Radars and now how they can intercept the steath stand off weapon when they are steathy ? Can u tell me ?
İsrael dont want to go fight Turkiye for years with all of its airforce that our AD will keep them away . İsrael juat want to bomb hamas in Turkiye and thats it and even if we have 50 Batteries of Çelik kubbe , they can hit Hamas inside Turkiye because those special operation noone can stop nor US or China ,Russia.
The best for us is that we aslo should produce super steathy stand off weapons of some 500km range . We have SOM but i dont think its very steathy. While İsraeli might have those and are top secret just like their steathy drone that noone know.

Well, we certainly won't build 50 batteries of Steal Dome to protect Hamas! If Israel is just after Hamas, then the whole problem would be easy to solve for us. They want to divide Syria and establish there a PKK state. So for a modest benefit for them they are putting us to a great disadvantage. This is totally insane as there is no reason why a unified, stable, and in the future democratic Syria should pose a danger for them. Instead, they now are gaining Turkey as their eternal enemy, which is potentially much more dangerous for them in the future, as we won't forget their winner takes it all attitude. But as I wrote above, prophecies are there to be fulfilled....

Also, not aware of any super-stealth standoff missiles, do you mean Rampage? Which cruise missile? We don't need to detect the f..ing missile from 500kms in a war. We can shoot them from the short range. We need many AD systems to protect our infrastructure but also mobile Hisar batteries together with Korkut to be able transfer teams of special forces to attack Israel from land.

 

[GoatsMilk]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1966434069480087763

He worked or works for the same media outlet that has the pro-pkk mouth piece amberin zaman. I once left a message on his youtube asking how he reconciles working for a media outlet that promotes PKK terrorism. His answer was a load of gibberish.

Most likely another feto type character. No patriot, no nationalist, no real Muslim will platformed by the enemy.

So these guys will defend the Turkish cause, but later they will be used to push the anti-Turkish narrative. For example feto, pro muslim then later pushing pkk, pushing armenian allegations, pushing everything anti-Turkish.

Also anyone who tells you to think america/nato will protect you against Isreal is deceiving you. He's making you put your guard down. Anyone with the most basic of intelligence will understand that any isreali attack will be colluded with the USA/UK at a minimum. Prepare for it, expect it.

For a long time now in order to protect ourselves from the anglo-american zionist axis, we must have nuclear capabilities.

 

[GoatsMilk]

remember Turks, a strategy the enemy employs is always to give you a hero, this way they control your side of the narrative and also it closes the door on real patriots from becoming the voice and leaders of the people.

You must always investigate where these people come from who seemingly pop out of nowhere and are platformed.

For a long time now most traitors appeared as Muslims to deceive the Turkish nation.

In america the people see trump as their hero, but you do the slightest bit of research and you will find he was a product of the banking cartels from day one. Another puppet.

 

[Oublious]

He worked or works for the same media outlet that has the pro-pkk mouth piece amberin zaman. I once left a message on his youtube asking how he reconciles working for a media outlet that promotes PKK terrorism. His answer was a load of gibberish.

Most likely another feto type character. No patriot, no nationalist, no real Muslim will platformed by the enemy.

So these guys will defend the Turkish cause, but later they will be used to push the anti-Turkish narrative. For example feto, pro muslim then later pushing pkk, pushing armenian allegations, pushing everything anti-Turkish.

Also anyone who tells you to think america/nato will protect you against Isreal is deceiving you. He's making you put your guard down. Anyone with the most basic of intelligence will understand that any isreali attack will be colluded with the USA/UK at a minimum. Prepare for it, expect it.

For a long time now in order to protect ourselves from the anglo-american zionist axis, we must have nuclear capabilities.

lol

The only reason why he is not good is he wrote in a wrong media company, is that your argument?

you should stop writing....

Everybody nows who Barin is.

Come with a video so we can stoning him....

 

[Eurofighter]

Israel has been smearing Turkey for some time now, which makes it easier for them to justify striking Hamas in Istanbul in the future. Very interesting question whether Turkey could defend itself, which is what led a weirdo like me to this forum. I wanted to check with you how correct/flawed my understanding of Turkey’s new security situation is, and ask some questions about air defence in the short-term for Turkey, given the threat of Israeli strikes:

- The strike in Doha is retaliation for a plot by a Turkish-based Hamas cell to assassinate Itamer Ben-Gvir, Israel’s Minister of National Security. It worked by air-launching ballistic missiles from the Red Sea, 1300 km away. Part of the goal would have been to make Qatar/Turkey fear Israel and demoralise them by showcasing its current technological advantage.
(Although Israel’s ideology of domination and destruction has become quite broad - it involves belief of their ingenuity/audacity/democratic superiority, messianic beliefs about Netenjahu, US evangelical beliefs about them being God’s chosen people, demoralising/scaring Hamas-supporting Gazans by hyping their belief about the morality of revenge, trauma at Hamas’s large terror attack after so many years trying to build security, frustration at how the Abraham Accords have fallen apart, belief outsiders are vicious and they have bullied/sabotaged Israel, reassurance from their nuclear arsenal, and a Columbine mindset.)

- It will be important for threatened neighbours to find a way to suffocate or marginalize this ideology. This may involve the creation of a Pakistani nuclear umbrella for threatened nations. The nuclear umbrella would only become credible following quite radical gestures of support from Pakistan, such as deployment to the Middle East/Nakhchivan of 50+ Pakistani Kaan and J-35 jets (maybe on lease from China through Turkish+Saudi financial assistance).

- Additionally, a years-long process of interdependence and integration will build pressure on Kaan partners to grow together as long-term allies, similar to the Eurofighter project. A durable Middle Eastern alliance will have more leverage to advocate for Palestinians and for its own interests. Hopefully one day Turkey and Egypt will come to an agreement on their respective roles in Syria, leading to Egypt becoming a core participant in Kaan (Germany and France also became close allies after WW2 in spite of each country’s tendencies to seek domination of their region.)

—

Q1: The 1100km-wide gap between Athens and Iskenderun could be covered by as few as six British, French, or Italian naval vessels (which have an air defence radius of >120km when equipped with the Aster 30 system), but no such vessels are in the relevant area according to ship tracking websites. What is the current status of Turkish naval cooperation with France, Italy, and the UK? Has Turkey ever requested Italian, French, and British naval support, in a similar way to how it has requested US support from Patriot missiles?

Q2: What is the status of Turkish Aster/SAMP(T) procurement? (Very good time for Turkey to purchase this system right now as the French are angry at Israeli behaviour.)

Q3: Has Turkey reached out to any Muslim countries for assistance with its land-based air defence? The US doesn’t want Turkey to deploy its S-400 systems in Turkey, but any of Pakistan, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Azerbaijan or Iraq could lease them and after training deploy them (in some cases alongside their own Chinese HQ-9 system) to Nakhchivan or northern Iraq, with the approval of Iraq/Azerbaijan. That would add some level of deterrence against Israeli F-15/F-16 incursions along most of Turkey’s southern land border. The protective benefit to Iran shouldn’t bother anybody right now - in fact a noisy Iran draws more Israeli strikes/subversion away from others.

Q4: Given the new military reality following Israel’s missile strike on Hamas politicians in Qatar, has there been any new discussion in Turkey about setting a more appropriate/ambitious goal for TAI-Kaan production rates? I would have thought that the goal of 24/year needs to be raised to 72/year (including at foreign co-production sites) in order to remain relevant once Israel begins taking delivery of NGAD in the 2030s - in the long run I don’t think it would be excessive for Turkey to have 400+ Kaan in its inventory, in addition to the 100 for Saudi Arabia, 48 for Indonesia, some for Azerbaijan and a large number for Pakistan. There would be plenty of money to cover a larger inventory since NATO requires Turkey to increase from 2.1% of GDP to 3.5%. (Even Sweden managed to deliver 18 Gripen/year in the mid-2000s on just 1.3% of GDP defence spending.)

 

[Pokemonte13]

Israel has been smearing Turkey for some time now, which makes it easier for them to justify striking Hamas in Istanbul in the future. Very interesting question whether Turkey could defend itself, which is what led a weirdo like me to this forum. I wanted to check with you how correct/flawed my understanding of Turkey’s new security situation is, and ask some questions about air defence in the short-term for Turkey, given the threat of Israeli strikes:

- The strike in Doha is retaliation for a plot by a Turkish-based Hamas cell to assassinate Itamer Ben-Gvir, Israel’s Minister of National Security. It worked by air-launching ballistic missiles from the Red Sea, 1300 km away. Part of the goal would have been to make Qatar/Turkey fear Israel and demoralise them by showcasing its current technological advantage.
(Although Israel’s ideology of domination and destruction has become quite broad - it involves belief of their ingenuity/audacity/democratic superiority, messianic beliefs about Netenjahu, US evangelical beliefs about them being God’s chosen people, demoralising/scaring Hamas-supporting Gazans by hyping their belief about the morality of revenge, trauma at Hamas’s large terror attack after so many years trying to build security, frustration at how the Abraham Accords have fallen apart, belief outsiders are vicious and they have bullied/sabotaged Israel, reassurance from their nuclear arsenal, and a Columbine mindset.)

- It will be important for threatened neighbours to find a way to suffocate or marginalize this ideology. This may involve the creation of a Pakistani nuclear umbrella for threatened nations. The nuclear umbrella would only become credible following quite radical gestures of support from Pakistan, such as deployment to the Middle East/Nakhchivan of 50+ Pakistani Kaan and J-35 jets (maybe on lease from China through Turkish+Saudi financial assistance).

- Additionally, a years-long process of interdependence and integration will build pressure on Kaan partners to grow together as long-term allies, similar to the Eurofighter project. A durable Middle Eastern alliance will have more leverage to advocate for Palestinians and for its own interests. Hopefully one day Turkey and Egypt will come to an agreement on their respective roles in Syria, leading to Egypt becoming a core participant in Kaan (Germany and France also became close allies after WW2 in spite of each country’s tendencies to seek domination of their region.)

—

Q1: The 1100km-wide gap between Athens and Iskenderun could be covered by as few as six British, French, or Italian naval vessels (which have an air defence radius of >120km when equipped with the Aster 30 system), but no such vessels are in the relevant area according to ship tracking websites. What is the current status of Turkish naval cooperation with France, Italy, and the UK? Has Turkey ever requested Italian, French, and British naval support, in a similar way to how it has requested US support from Patriot missiles?

Q2: What is the status of Turkish Aster/SAMP(T) procurement? (Very good time for Turkey to purchase this system right now as the French are angry at Israeli behaviour.)

Q3: Has Turkey reached out to any Muslim countries for assistance with its land-based air defence? The US doesn’t want Turkey to deploy its S-400 systems in Turkey, but any of Pakistan, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Azerbaijan or Iraq could lease them and after training deploy them (in some cases alongside their own Chinese HQ-9 system) to Nakhchivan or northern Iraq, with the approval of Iraq/Azerbaijan. That would add some level of deterrence against Israeli F-15/F-16 incursions along most of Turkey’s southern land border. The protective benefit to Iran shouldn’t bother anybody right now - in fact a noisy Iran draws more Israeli strikes/subversion away from others.

Q4: Given the new military reality following Israel’s missile strike on Hamas politicians in Qatar, has there been any new discussion in Turkey about setting a more appropriate/ambitious goal for TAI-Kaan production rates? I would have thought that the goal of 24/year needs to be raised to 72/year (including at foreign co-production sites) in order to remain relevant once Israel begins taking delivery of NGAD in the 2030s - in the long run I don’t think it would be excessive for Turkey to have 400+ Kaan in its inventory, in addition to the 100 for Saudi Arabia, 48 for Indonesia, some for Azerbaijan and a large number for Pakistan. There would be plenty of money to cover a larger inventory since NATO requires Turkey to increase from 2.1% of GDP to 3.5%. (Even Sweden managed to deliver 18 Gripen/year in the mid-2000s on just 1.3% of GDP defence spending.)

Q1: The italians the french and the british would not help us in a military conflict with the israel only some diplomatic or economic sanctions thats all at the most
Q2: Sampt would probably be sold to us but delivery would be in a couple of years secondly no tot. Also just because they have problems with israel doesn't mean they will be very friendly to us.
Q3: They haven't and will probably not ask for aid from anyone. Most of these nations don't have spare systems. We only have 2 s400 so they would probably protect ankara and istanbul not that i think that they would be useful against f35s
Q4: Kaan is still in development and airforce will not buy more than 200 planes and even that is stretched. 24 airframes per year starting from 2032 is not bad that will probably increase over the years but for 72/year you would first need large orders for that to sustain that investment. Maybe around 2038-39 the number could be as high as 50 airframes but 24 is a good number to start with.

 

[TR_123456]

Israel has been smearing Turkey for some time now, which makes it easier for them to justify striking Hamas in Istanbul in the future.

Not gonna happen,the risks for Israel are to big.

Very interesting question whether Turkey could defend itself,

Not only defend but also make sure Israel wont try again.
Not politicly but militarily.

- The strike in Doha is retaliation for a plot by a Turkish-based Hamas cell to assassinate Itamer Ben-Gvir, Israel’s Minister of National Security. It worked by air-launching ballistic missiles from the Red Sea, 1300 km away. Part of the goal would have been to make Qatar/Turkey fear Israel and demoralise them by showcasing its current technological advantage.
(Although Israel’s ideology of domination and destruction has become quite broad - it involves belief of their ingenuity/audacity/democratic superiority, messianic beliefs about Netenjahu, US evangelical beliefs about them being God’s chosen people, demoralising/scaring Hamas-supporting Gazans by hyping their belief about the morality of revenge, trauma at Hamas’s large terror attack after so many years trying to build security, frustration at how the Abraham Accords have fallen apart, belief outsiders are vicious and they have bullied/sabotaged Israel, reassurance from their nuclear arsenal, and a Columbine mindset.)

Which has no meaning to and has no effect on my country's foreign policy or actions,it only shows the Arab worlds incompetence and the GCC leaders fear of their own people.
It wont take long for the people of the GCC to stand up to their spineless leaders.

- It will be important for threatened neighbours to find a way to suffocate or marginalize this ideology. This may involve the creation of a Pakistani nuclear umbrella for threatened nations. The nuclear umbrella would only become credible following quite radical gestures of support from Pakistan, such as deployment to the Middle East/Nakhchivan of 50+ Pakistani Kaan and J-35 jets (maybe on lease from China through Turkish+Saudi financial assistance).

To much overthinking,Azerbaijan is not an enemy of Israel.
Pakistan is there when needed,no need for a nuclear umbrella or fighterjets.

- Additionally, a years-long process of interdependence and integration will build pressure on Kaan partners to grow together as long-term allies, similar to the Eurofighter project. A durable Middle Eastern alliance will have more leverage to advocate for Palestinians and for its own interests. Hopefully one day Turkey and Egypt will come to an agreement on their respective roles in Syria, leading to Egypt becoming a core participant in Kaan (Germany and France also became close allies after WW2 in spite of each country’s tendencies to seek domination of their region.)

KAAN is the only real alternative for the Arab world in fifth gen fighter jets,this is why all GCC countries have already shown interest and are in various stages of cooperation(mostly financial).
Türkiye is already involved in many ''indigenous'' projects in the Arab world.

Q1: The 1100km-wide gap between Athens and Iskenderun could be covered by as few as six British, French, or Italian naval vessels (which have an air defence radius of >120km when equipped with the Aster 30 system), but no such vessels are in the relevant area according to ship tracking websites. What is the current status of Turkish naval cooperation with France, Italy, and the UK? Has Turkey ever requested Italian, French, and British naval support, in a similar way to how it has requested US support from Patriot missiles?

Not going to happen and not needed.
Our NATO allies are not our real allies,only in name.

Q2: What is the status of Turkish Aster/SAMP(T) procurement? (Very good time for Turkey to purchase this system right now as the French are angry at Israeli behaviour.)

We have our own system almost ready,no need for Aster/SAMP(T) or Patriots(check out the forum).

Q3: Has Turkey reached out to any Muslim countries for assistance with its land-based air defence? The US doesn’t want Turkey to deploy its S-400 systems in Turkey, but any of Pakistan, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Azerbaijan or Iraq could lease them and after training deploy them (in some cases alongside their own Chinese HQ-9 system) to Nakhchivan or northern Iraq, with the approval of Iraq/Azerbaijan. That would add some level of deterrence against Israeli F-15/F-16 incursions along most of Turkey’s southern land border. The protective benefit to Iran shouldn’t bother anybody right now - in fact a noisy Iran draws more Israeli strikes/subversion away from others.

All the countries mentioned dont have Air Defence.
Since you are new to the forum,you should check the Turkish Defence forum( https://defencehub.live/forums/turkish-defence-forum.74/ ) before asking such questions.
You will find all your answers there.

Q4: Given the new military reality following Israel’s missile strike on Hamas politicians in Qatar, has there been any new discussion in Turkey about setting a more appropriate/ambitious goal for TAI-Kaan production rates? I would have thought that the goal of 24/year needs to be raised to 72/year (including at foreign co-production sites) in order to remain relevant once Israel begins taking delivery of NGAD in the 2030s - in the long run I don’t think it would be excessive for Turkey to have 400+ Kaan in its inventory, in addition to the 100 for Saudi Arabia, 48 for Indonesia, some for Azerbaijan and a large number for Pakistan. There would be plenty of money to cover a larger inventory since NATO requires Turkey to increase from 2.1% of GDP to 3.5%. (Even Sweden managed to deliver 18 Gripen/year in the mid-2000s on just 1.3% of GDP defence spending.)

You are painting a doomsday scenario picture,you should relax and check out all the treads first.
We have layered systems in every field,our drones,air defence,missiles,EW etc are all top notch.
You make it look like we are defenceless which we are not.

Let us talk again after you check out the various threads on the forum.

 

[Pokemonte13]

You are painting a doomsday scenario picture,you should relax and check out all the treads first.
We have layered systems in every field,our drones,air defence,missiles,EW etc are all top notch.
You make it look like we are defenceless which we are not.

Let us talk again after you check out the various threads on the forum.

i mean we are somewhat defenceless s400 just 2 batteries 2 siper that we know of hisar a and o are just entering now in larger numbers eirs is also just started serial production most of our f16 are from a tech perspective 15-20 years old most modern are Block30 with Özgür 1 which is still missing aesa radar they have more aircraft than we do more modern and capable as well(does't mean ours are shit). they have f35 which we can't see at desirable distances. Our ballistics are in early production phase sufficiant number will take time. The last time we were somewhat equal to israel was like 20 years ago. The next time will be like in 5 years