India Jet Engines and Gas Turbines

Windchime

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Would say that "unprecedented" is a far cry... there were some examples during the cold-war period. Though I'd be able to say, that this kind of a deal is first of its kind ever since the 80s/90s when the US for the last time transfered high-profile gas turbine technology to Japan.

Read reply 110 above. We will have to wait and see how it goes....these matters are classified for most part in the details involved. We can only judge on evidence produced later.
Even if we assume that US will stay true to the "80%" figure, I'd say it just as much depends on the Indian side. One of the most important aspect of a successful ToT is if the recipient is able to "digest" the information they are being fed with. Also I have a feeling that this "80% in value" contains some caveats... They could keep the promise while censoring out data/information on the documentation they hand over which would contain valuable knowledge or experince regarding know-how and more importantly, know-why. That has been a regular practice ever since DoD have introduced more stringent ToT control measures in place.

So as you say, we'll have to wait and see, but in the end, it really depends on GTRE and wider Indian industry cultivating an industrial base and brain pool which could capitalise on the information they are given. Also, to be successful, they would really have to give their best efforts to squeeze out as much information fro GE engineers and technicians "unofficially". In case of past Korean experiences, alchohol has been one of the most helpful tools in doing so.
 

Nilgiri

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Would say that "unprecedented" is a far cry... there were some examples during the cold-war period. Though I'd be able to say, that this kind of a deal is first of its kind ever since the 80s/90s when the US for the last time transfered high-profile gas turbine technology to Japan.


Even if we assume that US will stay true to the "80%" figure, I'd say it just as much depends on the Indian side. One of the most important aspect of a successful ToT is if the recipient is able to "digest" the information they are being fed with. Also I have a feeling that this "80% in value" contains some caveats... They could keep the promise while censoring out data/information on the documentation they hand over which would contain valuable knowledge or experince regarding know-how and more importantly, know-why. That has been a regular practice ever since DoD have introduced more stringent ToT control measures in place.

So as you say, we'll have to wait and see, but in the end, it really depends on GTRE and wider Indian industry cultivating an industrial base and brain pool which could capitalise on the information they are given. Also, to be successful, they would really have to give their best efforts to squeeze out as much information fro GE engineers and technicians "unofficially". In case of past Korean experiences, alchohol has been one of the most helpful tools in doing so.

Its definitely unprecedented in this being the first country of this size (several times US population) that the US is electing to progress things substantially with.

More so given the backdrop of the relations previously (cold war, inertia of that into the 90s and 2000s added to by US response to Indian nuclear tests in the 1990s).

But US figures its best now to strike while the iron is hot, given pressure both have from PRC.

India will hedge on certain things with France, Israel, EU and to a degree that can be managed and is relevant... Russia.

For jet engines (and aerospace broadly) it will be US vs France here.

The Kaveri serves as good reference for India to use regarding what it needs further in more specific way vertically....but GTRE and HAL will also benefit laterally from various process flows and quality control both western countries bring (and the larger ecosystem investment from Boeing, Airbus etc) to existing known capabilities.

Kaveri (dry) powerplant used in the stealth UAV project and proposed marine derivative will also provide useful experience to take forward....there are lot of things to learn from actual deployment on the MRO side feedback to RnD.

This is where Russian powerplants for example have been lacking (never in the best of shape in Soviet times and further reduced RnD budgets after cold war)....and likely some part of the reason India does not want to throw further RnD costs there (i.e what can be learned has mostly been learned and there is limited utility compared to costs involved especially to rely on for 5th and 6th gen a/c projects) compared to what can be gained from the West and its sizeable qualitative economy of scale it will still have long term here.
 

Windchime

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Its definitely unprecedented in this being the first country of this size (several times US population) that the US is electing to progress things substantially with.

More so given the backdrop of the relations previously (cold war, inertia of that into the 90s and 2000s added to by US response to Indian nuclear tests in the 1990s).

But US figures its best now to strike while the iron is hot, given pressure both have from PRC.

India will hedge on certain things with France, Israel, EU and to a degree that can be managed and is relevant... Russia.

For jet engines (and aerospace broadly) it will be US vs France here.

The Kaveri serves as good reference for India to use regarding what it needs further in more specific way vertically....but GTRE and HAL will also benefit laterally from various process flows and quality control both western countries bring (and the larger ecosystem investment from Boeing, Airbus etc) to existing known capabilities.

Kaveri (dry) powerplant used in the stealth UAV project and proposed marine derivative will also provide useful experience to take forward....there are lot of things to learn from actual deployment on the MRO side feedback to RnD.

This is where Russian powerplants for example have been lacking (never in the best of shape in Soviet times and further reduced RnD budgets after cold war)....and likely some part of the reason India does not want to throw further RnD costs there (i.e what can be learned has mostly been learned and there is limited utility compared to costs involved especially to rely on for 5th and 6th gen a/c projects) compared to what can be gained from the West and its sizeable qualitative economy of scale it will still have long term here.
That's true. US certainly has some appeasement to do considering the 20th century relations the US and India had especially concerning Pakistan matters in the past... I guess it's recognisable that they need to yield something significant if they want cooperation regarding the seas near Andaman and Nicobar islands.
 

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New Delhi: Safran and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL) have entered a joint venture to co-design and co produce the next generation of helicopter engines in India. These will be for the Indian Multi Role Helicopter (IMRH) and the Deck Based Multi Role Helicopter( DBMRH). Watch this exclusive interview with Cédric Goubet, CEO, Safran Helicopter Engines, in conversation with our sister channel StratNews Global's Associate Editor Amitabh P. Revi. "By a 50-50 co-design, manufacture and support of the new generation, high power turboshaft engine dedicated to the multi role helicopter, weighing between 13 and 14 tonnes", Cédric Goubet says," the joint venture is pushing the envelope in terms of technological collaboration a step further than transfer of technology. This is really a pivotal moment for the partnership in this area between France and India and between HAL and Safran helicopter engines", he adds.

Watch this exclusive interview for more on the joint venture, the co-design of a completely new engine, investment plans, workshare allocation, where the facilities will be based, high quality and quantity of employment, Maintenance, Repair, Overhaul (MRO facilities in India, Atma Nirbharta, defence exports in the future, transfer of technology, intellectual property rights, the French government's role, timeframe for the helicopter to enter service, the Shakti engine collaboration, working in the Indian defence ecosystem, the partnership and capability of HAL, and the legacy of Jospeh Szydlowski.


 

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The United States (US) Congress has no objection to the Joe Biden administration’s decision to pursue the GE jet engine deal with India, paving the way for the implementation of the company’s agreement with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) that includes unprecedented technology transfer, manufacturing of jet engines in India and licensing arrangements.

A person familiar with developments on Capitol Hill, the home of the US Congress, said, “It is all clear from the legislative end. The sale was approved before Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit itself. But, as per the process, the state department notified the House and Senate foreign relations committee on July 28.” If, for 30 days after the notification, no Congressional representative or Senator objects, it is treated as assent. “There has been no objection. The administration can go ahead with the next steps,” the person added, asking not to be named.


During President Biden’s visit to India for the G20 summit in September, both countries are expected to discuss the next steps in taking forward the deal. Without confirming the status of the Congressional process, a senior administration said: “I don’t want to steal any of the thunder of our meetings. We are working towards and expecting the necessary steps on both sides to be able to move forward on this historic agreement.”

The state department refused to comment on the matter. A spokesperson said, “We are restricted from publicly commenting on the details of commercial defence trade licensing activities.“

HT was the first to report before Modi’s visit that the US administration had sealed the jet engine deal and the notification to the US Congress was imminent.


On June 22, the day of Prime Minister Narendra’s Modi’s historic state visit to Washington DC where he was accorded a ceremonial welcome in the White House before extensive bilateral talks and a state dinner, GE Aerospace and HAL signed a memorandum of understanding to produce F-414 jet engines in India for the under-development light combat aircraft (LCA) Mk2.

The deal is significant because the US treats jet engine technology as a “crown jewel” and hasn’t shared similar tech with even its closest allies. For its part, India has lagged in jet engine technology, a gap that the agreement can bridge, helping bolster both India’s aerial power, especially in the context of the fragile situation with China at the Line of Actual Control, and its ambition of building a domestic defence industrial base. US administration officials have acknowledged that the GE deal could be a model going forward, as it helps address India’s concerns over tech transfer and co-production and fits in with American hopes of integrating the defence ecosystems and platforms of both countries more closely.


The deal will involve 80% transfer of technology (ToT) and is estimated to be worth around $1 billion. The production of the engines will result in the new fighter jet having an indigenous content of around 75% compared to 55%-60% in LCA Mk-1A and 50% in the existing variants, Indian officials familiar with the matter said. The deal with GE Aerospace to produce 99 F-414 engines under licence is likely to be signed during the current financial year, and the first lot of engines will be made in India three years thereafter, the officials added, asking not to be named.
 

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