JITEM - CURSE OR BLESSING?

[Captain_Azeri_76]

I would be interested to hear what you think of the JITEM - and related to the ERGENEKON process?
Do we need such an organization again? A strictly nationalist, covert one? (Even if not directly comparable) similar to Wagner or Blackwater?

 

[KKF 2.0]

You wanna punish people for breaking the law? Go ahead. I'm with you. But do it publicly and in accordance with the state of law.

You don't need such an illegal and clandestine organization if you can enforce the already existing laws.

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

You wanna punish people for breaking the law? Go ahead. I'm with you. But do it publicly and in accordance with the state of law.

You don't need such an illegal and clandestine organization if you can enforce the already existing laws.

As far as I know, the JITEM was a counter-guerrilla unit (unofficial) that used the same asymmetrical warfare and tactics of the PKK against the PKK and its sympathizers (e.g. Kidnapping, torture, attacks, assassinations, sabotage, espionage, order through fear) -- especially in the 90s that was more than necessary, most of those who were a little older should know these facts - Of course, it was cruel, but what were the 90s? They were cruel - what was the PKK, Asala, etc? Cruel - the JITEM caused fear and horror among all these people - the left falcons, etc. and that was necessary - in my opinion.

That the units that are responsible for the rough can not always act or act within the framework of the applicable laws - I am aware of that ... even if the innocent suffered from it and that is also sad - but this is exactly how counter-guerrilla works - it doesn't pay so much attention to collateral damage ... sad but true...

In my opinion, we still need a covert unit - an unofficial one - like any major military force uses (US, Russia, China) - one that does the "dirty work" ...

 

[Sinan]

I would be interested to hear what you think of the JITEM - and related to the ERGENEKON process?
Do we need such an organization again? A strictly nationalist, covert one? (Even if not directly comparable) similar to Wagner or Blackwater?

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There is nothing you can defend about Jitem.... Judge and Executor. Can kill anyone they want, many of them went rogue, founded ülkücü mafia. Killed lots of innocents even in the western cities. We don't need such illegal organizations.

 

[Saithan]

Truth is many countries have these kind of organizations. But they are kept under strict control and probably aren’t tolerated inside their own country.

 

[Sinan]

Truth is many countries have these kind of organizations. But they are kept under strict control and probably aren’t tolerated inside their own country.

Yeap, we have MIT. It’s more than enough.

 

[Saithan]

As long as MIT has black op units to deal with things I’ll be satisfied. The 90’s were bad because every branch of TSK had their own version of JITEM.

 

[Timur]

we need a unit that snipers, poisens, car accidents, sabotages, espionage, stabbs, kidnaps pkk whereever they are.. a tb2 dropping a bomb in turkey, in iraq or syria no problem.. anyone supporting pkk needs to be a target their homes, their lands their wealth needs to be targeted/taken or whatever..

thinking these people can be fought just with military is idiotic, foolish, infantile, and you can count on whatever it descipes it in a bad way.. we see them on the social media and I can tell you I saw many of these in germany (99% of the kurds are pro pkk here) and I can tell you the social media is just a little reflection of these people its not that the worst of them are found on social media its just the average guy there..

you cant fight them droppinmg some bombs.. until the money flow from outside and the support given to them from the outside they will get more and more people..

you have to fight them in multible fronts:
in the schools daily
in the media daily
in social media daily
in TV Films, series, documentation daily find new ways target inteligent people, dump people religious people everything
in government
in banking
in industry
with military, secret services, and killing commandos
and with the imams

so cover the whole society all needs to support you if you forget one its a big blow to our security

 

[bsruzm]

we need a unit that snipers, poisens, car accidents, sabotages, espionage, stabbs, kidnaps pkk whereever they are..

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

There is nothing you can defend about Jitem.... Judge and Executor. Can kill anyone they want, many of them went rogue, founded ülkücü mafia. Killed lots of innocents even in the western cities. We don't need such illegal organizations.

I defend the need for the JITEM and its goals at that time - and its actions against the PKK, not against innocent victims...

Truth is many countries have these kind of organizations. But they are kept under strict control and probably aren’t tolerated inside their own country.

Every major power on this world has such organizations - kept secret, working in the dark, doing the dirty work

As long as MIT has black op units to deal with things I’ll be satisfied. The 90’s were bad because every branch of TSK had their own version of JITEM.

Sadly the MIT hasn't an executive brand - they have spies, coop. with the TSK and other branches - the JITEM was autonomous and therefore very, very effective...

 

[The Conqueror]

No need for Hitman. We got our own Hitman , Polat Alemdar

 

[Anmdt]

Unlimited power is prone to be misused, and especially if these powers include evading law, and illegal connection this powers are definitely misused in drug or arm trafficking and killing anybody who stands on your way.
Sounds effective and perfect on paper, in application the human always misuses this kind of power for personal reasons.
Black Ops divisions are old fashion, you need to hide such operations, nowadays you can just hire a company which runs a paramilitary group and let them do any illegal stuff through bribing, and using their connections. Through this way, your reputation is not affected, and this companies seem "doing those stuff for money"

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

Unlimited power is prone to be misused, and especially if these powers include evading law, and illegal connection this powers are definitely misused in drug or arm trafficking and killing anybody who stands on your way.
Sounds effective and perfect on paper, in application the human always misuses this kind of power for personal reasons.
Black Ops divisions are old fashion, you need to hide such operations, nowadays you can just hire a company which runs a paramilitary group and let them do any illegal stuff through bribing, and using their connections. Through this way, your reputation is not affected, and this companies seem "doing those stuff for money"

But we don't have an organization in Turkey that does work like that nowadays - JIT was the only one ...

We have no Wagner, and no Blackwater - no French Foreign Legion ...

In general (NOT addressed to you personally ANMDT, just don't want to post twice in a row):

For me, it is important that we can discuss and debate even controversial topics among ourselves in this forum... not just with people from other nations, without being convicted, defamed, etc.
It is important that you can expand your own horizons within your own community because nobody has eaten the wisdom with spoons... it would be a shame that this forum remains a homogeneous mass, with some foreign flavors.. and sometimes it happens to me that way pretend that controversial topics and opposing opinions are undesirable and not welcome - just a feeling

 

[Anmdt]

But we don't have an organization in Turkey that does work like that nowadays - JIT was the only one ...

We have no Wagner, and no Blackwater - no French Foreign Legion ...

In general (NOT addressed to you personally, just don't want to post twice in a row):

For me, it is important that we can discuss and debate even controversial topics among ourselves in this forum... not just with people from other nations, without being convicted, defamed, etc.
It is important that you can expand your own horizons within your own community because nobody has eaten the wisdom with spoons... it would be a shame that this forum remains a homogeneous mass, with some foreign flavors.. and sometimes it happens to me that way pretend that controversial topics and opposing opinions are undesirable and not welcome - just a feeling

We have SADAT, they are currently provides only advanced training and protection but it is better if they don't involve in such operations.
There is social media nowadays you can profile people and group them, assess who more-likely inclines toward crime-terrorism and arrest them.
Blackwater does not operate within US, it more operational on offshore.
Wagner also does not involve into action in Russia, KGB takes care of things, or the mafia linked with them. It is magic they can make you disappear in a day.
JITEM has mainly operated in Turkey, and used mafia connections to execute terrorists abroad. I don't know a lot about these stuff but it was for good everything has spilled out with Susurluk.

 

[Nilgiri]

Was this the paramilitary used under Tansu Ciller time?

"Kraut" video on turkey (post WW2 part) referred to it. @Deliorman

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

Was this the paramilitary used under Tansu Ciller time?

"Kraut" video on turkey (post WW2 part) referred to it. @Deliorman

They were more active under Ciller, yes - the then chief of staff was relatively sympathetic to the JITEM

 

[Captain_Azeri_76]

allah rahmet eylesin

 

[bsruzm]

No need for Hitman. We got our own Hitman , Polat Alemdar

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That trailer I posted was in line with Timur's post lol

 

[KKF 2.0]

If you have a strong military, gendarmerie, police presence, intelligence service, court system, comprehensive law system and a good enforcement of existing rules, why do you need an organization like JITEM to roam freely through our own home?

There's no organization like JITEM in Russia, China, France, Israel, the UK or US.

And there's a reason for that. We don't need more organizations which are taking matters into their own hands, we need less.

Btw, ideologically, neither the Turkish Islamism nor the Turkish secularism is giving space to orgs like JITEM because they might fight against the enemies of the state but by doing so, they become potential rivals of the state itself. History has taught us many lessons.

 

[bsruzm]

but by doing so, they become potential rivals of the state itself. History has taught us many lessons.

Sounds like: