TR KizilElma ¦ Akinci ¦ Aksungur | Plus Various Turkish Unmanned Autonomous Programs

MADDOG

Well-known member
Türkiye Correspondent
Messages
331
Reactions
3 886
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Cyprus
I don't get that either. Why does KIZILELMA have to be super maneuverable? It's a low-visible aircraft that supposed to kill the adversary without being detected. Where does maneuverability fits into that picture if the UAV is never meant to go into visual-range. Are canards supposed to be for out-maneuvering missiles or something?
Greeks are now flying Rafales which come with canard delta configuration. Maneuverability would matter if Kizilelma is intercepted. Just because she is stealthy, doesn't mean the aircraft is invincible. She needs to defend herself from the manned aircraft our adversaries are operating. Maybe not today, but in the near future AI will improve. And the AI on Kizilelma will be able to engage such aircraft. Boeing's Loyal Wingman, won't be able to do the same. Having canards also does not compromise the aircraft's stealth. They're designed accordingly. Plus it's good deterrence. Imagine a stealthy drone that has the potential to outmaneuver an aircraft that costs more to operate and sustain. It's also worth mentioning that if Kizilelma gets shot down, we would lose nothing but a drone. If it's vice versa, the Greeks would lose a much more expensive machine as well as a human being (possibly). To sum up things, it's good stuff. I was actually so pleased to see the canards on the aircraft when it was first unveiled. And the way the design matured was even more pleasing. We have our own mini J-20 :)
 

Lool

Experienced member
Messages
1,651
Reactions
1 2,750
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Albania
I really wanted to laugh at this post by saying that the guy is on drugs but thinking about it, it can actually be true! All of Chinese drones have been outperformed by its Turkish rivals. In Ethiopia, the govt used Wing long for months yet the Tigrayans still gained territory; however, when TB2 entered the field, the war got finished in 1 month in favour of the govt

I think that the Chinese tried to replicate the TB2 but couldnt replicate its most important part; i-e, the Software. Therefore, knowing that Turkey wants a 4.5 or 5th gen fighter to counter Greece in the short term, they are trying to offer a deal that seems amazing on paper but is actually laced with Poison

The moment China gets its hand on an intact TB2, they will try to reverse engineer the software, incorporate it into its drones and sell it for cheap

My father always said that the Chinese are never the losing side in a trade deal and damn he was bloody right

 

Fuzuli NL

Experienced member
Messages
2,046
Reactions
5 6,091
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Are the canards really necessary? It disturb the RCS of the plane.

Check the table below,

Best example Su-27 (no canards), and Su-30MKI (with canards).

Check the Rafale.

Radar Cross Section (RCS)​



RCS (m2)RCS (dB)
automobile10020
B-52100
B-1(A/B)10
F-1525
Su-2715
cabin cruiser1010
Su-MKI4
Mig-213
F-165
F-16C1.2
man10
F-181
Rafale1
B-20.75 ?
Typhoon0.5
Tomahawk SLCM0.5
B-20.1 ?
A-12/SR-710.01 (22 in2)
bird0.01-20
F-35 / JSF0.005-30
F-1170.003
insect0.001-30
F-220.0001-40
B-20.0001-40
 

Brokengineer

Committed member
Messages
175
Reactions
1 321
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I really wanted to laugh at this post by saying that the guy is on drugs but thinking about it, it can actually be true! All of Chinese drones have been outperformed by its Turkish rivals. In Ethiopia, the govt used Wing long for months yet the Tigrayans still gained territory; however, when TB2 entered the field, the war got finished in 1 month in favour of the govt

I think that the Chinese tried to replicate the TB2 but couldnt replicate its most important part; i-e, the Software. Therefore, knowing that Turkey wants a 4.5 or 5th gen fighter to counter Greece in the short term, they are trying to offer a deal that seems amazing on paper but is actually laced with Poison

The moment China gets its hand on an intact TB2, they will try to reverse engineer the software, incorporate it into its drones and sell it for cheap

My father always said that the Chinese are never the losing side in a trade deal and damn he was bloody right

It is ridiculus you take that account as an resource while it is known to be full of bs in this forum.
"Birds told me TR has been negotiating with US for the plans of f22 in exchange of TB2's. "
This is more probable.
 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
2,563
Reactions
1 2,815
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
It is ridiculus you take that account as an resource while it is known to be full of bs in this forum.
"Birds told me TR has been negotiating with US for the plans of f22 in exchange of TB2's. "
This is more probable.

If you think about that, it doesn’t sound that ridiculous. China knows, we are looking for fighter plans. And they are always looking to reverse everything they get in their hands.
 

hasanrize

Active member
Messages
50
Reactions
151
Nation of residence
Finland
Nation of origin
Turkey
It is probably just BS, expected from that Twitter account.

But it makes sense for China. What they look like is not something to reverse engineer. They lack experience, and they know it and do everything to have experience. What they got from Varyag was an experience, for example, not a functional carrier.

Making a good car is something, yet using a car effectively is completely another thing. Remember, MPT-76 came up with huge chunks of problems. TSK used it in operations, made feed back, and the rifle was designed again considering the feedback. And now, it is one of the bests if not the best. This method used in every tool TSK has. They are perfected in battle, not in the lab.

They might simply give J-20. All they ask would get feedback. How it performed against S-400, for example, how it was performed against F-16s, how it was performed against Greek Rafales, and how it was performed against EF-2000 in Anatolian Eagle. What are the shit points, and how can we fix the issues?

They are studying American victories in naval warfare during WWII in their deserts. Given Turkey or at least some Turkish generals involved in many conflicts directly, and gather a good chunk of experience. They might want to buy that experience. Given Turkey pushed away from the west, it is the only place where China can get this experience and doctrine from.
 

Oublious

Contributor
Messages
1,095
Reactions
2,109
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
I really wanted to laugh at this post by saying that the guy is on drugs but thinking about it, it can actually be true! All of Chinese drones have been outperformed by its Turkish rivals. In Ethiopia, the govt used Wing long for months yet the Tigrayans still gained territory; however, when TB2 entered the field, the war got finished in 1 month in favour of the govt

I think that the Chinese tried to replicate the TB2 but couldnt replicate its most important part; i-e, the Software. Therefore, knowing that Turkey wants a 4.5 or 5th gen fighter to counter Greece in the short term, they are trying to offer a deal that seems amazing on paper but is actually laced with Poison

The moment China gets its hand on an intact TB2, they will try to reverse engineer the software, incorporate it into its drones and sell it for cheap

My father always said that the Chinese are never the losing side in a trade deal and damn he was bloody right



al gulum ver gulum.... :LOL:
 

Nilgiri

Stoic Realist
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
7,221
Reactions
18 14,317
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
It is probably just BS, expected from that Twitter account.

But it makes sense for China. What they look like is not something to reverse engineer. They lack experience, and they know it and do everything to have experience. What they got from Varyag was an experience, for example, not a functional carrier.

Making a good car is something, yet using a car effectively is completely another thing. Remember, MPT-76 came up with huge chunks of problems. TSK used it in operations, made feed back, and the rifle was designed again considering the feedback. And now, it is one of the bests if not the best. This method used in every tool TSK has. They are perfected in battle, not in the lab.

They might simply give J-20. All they ask would get feedback. How it performed against S-400, for example, how it was performed against F-16s, how it was performed against Greek Rafales, and how it was performed against EF-2000 in Anatolian Eagle. What are the shit points, and how can we fix the issues?

They are studying American victories in naval warfare during WWII in their deserts. Given Turkey or at least some Turkish generals involved in many conflicts directly, and gather a good chunk of experience. They might want to buy that experience. Given Turkey pushed away from the west, it is the only place where China can get this experience and doctrine from.

Sorry there is absolutely no way PRC would baseline trust any other country with this stuff, much less a NATO member.
 

Lool

Experienced member
Messages
1,651
Reactions
1 2,750
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Albania
You should've just laughed.
It is ridiculus you take that account as an resource while it is known to be full of bs in this forum.
"Birds told me TR has been negotiating with US for the plans of f22 in exchange of TB2's. "
This is more probable.
al gulum ver gulum.... :LOL:
Loooool
The guy was saying the truth after all; this is insanity
I truly hope that Turkey doesnt get tricked and accept such a deal


 

Baryshx

Active member
Messages
111
Reactions
195
Website
www.twitter.com
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Loooool
The guy was saying the truth after all; this is insanity
I truly hope that Turkey doesnt get tricked and accept such a deal


I do not remember such a statement by President Erdogan, is there a source for this?
 

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
2,563
Reactions
1 2,815
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Loooool
The guy was saying the truth after all; this is insanity
I truly hope that Turkey doesnt get tricked and accept such a deal



Which part of 5. Generation plane we are talking about?
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
2,740
Reactions
4,491
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
No one on earth gives source code of a newly vehicle/airplane. Maybe if we start to produce TB-5 series, we can think of that.

Any product can be sold as long as you get something worth getting for it. The matter is there is nothing worth getting from the potential buyer for it. We do not need nukes given by someone else, we need to make our own. We do not need 5th gen plane technology we are developing ourselves. There is really nothing worth getting for it.
 

Lool

Experienced member
Messages
1,651
Reactions
1 2,750
Nation of residence
Albania
Nation of origin
Albania
It seems that even KSA wants Baykar to open a factory in its territory
Baykar is now very famous that if any nation wanna think about buying drones, their first option isnt China, USA, or Russia but Turkey and Baykar!

Nations are going to Baykar products as if it is some sort of Baklava; the demand is bloody insane😂🤣


I truly hope Baykar refuses this request along with UAE's request as well
Baykar should just increase its construction capacity in Turkey and hire more employees which will reduce the risk of sabotage; although I do know that it will take time to find qualified, patriotic engineers

 

Fuzuli NL

Experienced member
Messages
2,046
Reactions
5 6,091
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
I truly hope Baykar refuses this request along with UAE's request as well
I do too. Their mouthpieces kept bashing their performance and how Chinese/UAE drones were superior to the TB-2s during the conflict in Libya. They even claimed shooting down 119 of them and at that time we didn't even have that many produced! :ROFLMAO:
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
2,740
Reactions
4,491
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
What makes it so attractive to have a Baykar factory in their soil instead of buying ready made for those countries? Baykar can setup maintenance facilities if required. If it is getting their people to learn how to make drones from Baykar, it will take decades.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom