TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Reviewbrah]

It is not a competition about who makes better stuff, it is about who benefits the nation in short, medium and long term. Those who keep the money and technology in the country benefits the nation the most. Those who come up with slightly better products with the help of foreigners can at times help with providing the nation with products but it won't last long as the money goes outside. We can not allow our economy leak/bleed by buying foreign stuff in forms of material or engineering services. We have to make our own.

BMC still uses imported armor glass and plates from Israel, their vehicle family was designed with the Israeli company Carmor. BMC haven't changed the design that much. Majority of company owned by Qataris.

 

[Zafer]

BMC still uses imported armor glass and plates from Israel, their vehicle family was designed with the Israeli company Carmor. BMC haven't changed the design that much. Majority of company owned by Qataris.

What does it matter. We have the technology and IP, we are not paying for the technology per piece. Once local amours are as capable as the imported ones imports will stop. The Qatari owners don't take the technology away. When you don't have enough of your capital and technology base you can't make or own everything yourself. This is because the things we are doing is above the level we can make on our resources alone. As we have to target high quality products. We can't stop making things just because we can't make everything that goes into it.

 

[Combat-Master]

"Favoritism" costed lives in Syria, army didn't have proper vehicles. Wheeled IFVs that should had been acquired 4-6 years ago wasn't there. Engine alternatives for IFVs could be easily found. Why was contract still delayed to this point is question. Future of Leo modernization was unclear for years. Still kind of a mystery. BMC attempted to modernize Leo two times, both failed. Now attempting for the 3rd time. While there was perfectly good Aselsan and Roketsan modernization. BMC got the Altay contract without a factory and experience in tracked armored vehicles. Not to forget factory BMC is planning to build a factory in Karasu to be used later on for armored vehicles but it is not strategically located and dangerously close to sea for a military factory. I wouldn't care either if it was a capable company but what it is a shit show.

This sums it up well

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353017009206939648

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You're just fishing with half-truths with irrelevant points and pictures of prototype vehicles.
Without a proper APS in use all vehicles would have suffered the same fate to ATGMs.

BMC still uses imported armor glass and plates from Israel, their vehicle family was designed with the Israeli company Carmor. BMC haven't changed the design that much. Majority of company owned by Qataris.

The previous ownership of BMC co-operated with Israeli company Carmo to develop Kirpi. This is well known fact. What is not well-known is that the chassis of Kirpi is based entirely on BMC R&D while Otokar still joins hands with AM General and uses foreign chassis and foreign armoured plates and glass. Atleast BMC owns it's own chassis. That's not to say I dislike Otokar, they are simply trying to squeeze as much money out as they possibly can with minimal R&D expenditure.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

BMC still uses imported armor glass and plates from Israel, their vehicle family was designed with the Israeli company Carmor. BMC haven't changed the design that much. Majority of company owned by Qataris.

Miilux steel armors are being used on all BMC vehicles and they are now produced in Manisa.

 

[what]

I asked this before but since it came up again: Ford Otosan has 100% indenigously developed and is manufacturing these bad boys: https://www.fordotosan.com.tr/en/operations/production/engine-production

With up to 480PS.

I dont know how Ford Otosan operates and if they are allowed to sell engines to other ventures, but it's there and its proven. They have been in production since 2016. Almost 5 years now. Has anyone in the government ever considered cooperation with Ford & Ford Otosan?

 

[Zafer]

I asked this before but since it came up again: Ford Otosan has 100% indenigously developed and is manufacturing these bad boys: https://www.fordotosan.com.tr/en/operations/production/engine-production

With up to 480PS.

I dont know how Ford Otosan operates and if they are allowed to sell engines to other ventures, but it's there and its proven. They have been in production since 2016. Almost 5 years now. Has anyone in the government ever considered cooperation with Ford & Ford Otosan?

This is a civilian engine that cares about emission levels. It probably does not meet military requirements. Asking them to make a military grade engine is as good as asking the US to give power to Turkey. This is not suitable when there are other companies that make military grade engines to the military project requirements.

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1355459490024284162

ASELSAN reaches 3 thousand in Sarp Weapon System production

 

[Mis_TR_Like]

I'm hoping we will see some interesting unmanned ground vehicle prototype at IDEF 2021. Just like unmanned air and sea vehicles, having unmanned land combat vehicles is going to be a game changer. Yes, we have seen small UGVs with machine guns mounted to them. But if we can build something with a 30mm to 120mm turret, essentially an unmanned IFV or tank, that would save the lives of our troops more than anything else. Yes, APS and ERA can help, but if you want absolutely no casualties then going unmanned is the best route. Of course we will still use APCs to carry our soldiers, but for pure fire support when sieging a city, heavy unmanned combat vehicles will be the future.

By the way does anyone know what's the latest with the unmanned ACV-15 project? I'm eagerly waiting to see these in our inventory.

 

[Ryder]

Otokar still has not learnt to make its products cheaper when it comes to procuring equipment.

Price plays an enormous factor. If KOC holding is ripping us off im not surprised that cheaper alternatives and better stuff are being prefered.

My criticism of BMC still stands but Otokar deserves a lot too.

 

[AzeriTank]

I'm hoping we will see some interesting unmanned ground vehicle prototype at IDEF 2021. Just like unmanned air and sea vehicles, having unmanned land combat vehicles is going to be a game changer. Yes, we have seen small UGVs with machine guns mounted to them. But if we can build something with a 30mm to 120mm turret, essentially an unmanned IFV or tank, that would save the lives of our troops more than anything else. Yes, APS and ERA can help, but if you want absolutely no casualties then going unmanned is the best route. Of course we will still use APCs to carry our soldiers, but for pure fire support when sieging a city, heavy unmanned combat vehicles will be the future.

By the way does anyone know what's the latest with the unmanned ACV-15 project? I'm eagerly waiting to see these in our inventory.

their only problem is able to go only 3km far... but Turkey want to make them use together with drones, that way they will be controlled from far away as those drones will send the commands to them. but they also need to be small, slow so be able to work together.. Havelsan got a perfect idea about it..

 

[Azeri441]

Don't all the sensors and sights block a big portion of Akkors engagement area ? creating pretty big blind zones

 

[Cypro]

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I really wonder where did they licensed it, FNSS is improving and working on a licensed system nearly 20 years, Otokar is working on ARMA more than 10 years and BMC suddenly popped up with a design And probably they will get a bulky contract. So I am really curious about this new 8x8..

And it is really so unfortunate that TSK is not focusing on these type vehicles with bigger guns instead of Altay or other crappy apc's.

 

[AzeriTank]

I really wonder where did they licensed it, FNSS is improving and working on a licensed system nearly 20 years, Otokar is working on ARMA more than 10 years and BMC suddenly popped up with a design And probably they will get a bulky contract. So I am really curious about this new 8x8..

And it is really so unfortunate that TSK is not focusing on these type vehicles with bigger guns instead of Altay or other crappy apc's.

when you got Turkish engineers, you are able to hire them with higher salaries. it was mentioned that many engineers went to BMc from Otorkar with higher salaries... so, its not white and black as you think..

 

[mulj]

I'm hoping we will see some interesting unmanned ground vehicle prototype at IDEF 2021. Just like unmanned air and sea vehicles, having unmanned land combat vehicles is going to be a game changer. Yes, we have seen small UGVs with machine guns mounted to them. But if we can build something with a 30mm to 120mm turret, essentially an unmanned IFV or tank, that would save the lives of our troops more than anything else. Yes, APS and ERA can help, but if you want absolutely no casualties then going unmanned is the best route. Of course we will still use APCs to carry our soldiers, but for pure fire support when sieging a city, heavy unmanned combat vehicles will be the future.

By the way does anyone know what's the latest with the unmanned ACV-15 project? I'm eagerly waiting to see these in our inventory.

Vehicle itself should not be big deal to make, greater challenge for that concept is combat managememt system on scale that include more then one vehicle, from my pov that is vaste of resources, it is more reasonable to continue devlopimg air supremacy and support assets and for land vehicles enhancing current protecion, sensors, firepower, mobility...it is just to compkicated at moment but for some special purposes of course that would be nice.

 

[Test7]

 

[Test7]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1356533374740017152

 

[Anmdt]

when you got Turkish engineers, you are able to hire them with higher salaries. it was mentioned that many engineers went to BMc from Otorkar with higher salaries... so, its not white and black as you think..

Altay team has moved to BMC, if it was sufficient BMC wouldnt need tank palet factory.
Money solves most of the problems, but i doubt if BMC has enough of it despite of the generous and rich shareholders.

Armoured vehicle team still works with Otokar, no reasons for them to relocate. Some people might have slipped out though.

 

[dBSPL]

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Aselsan's new generation unmanned turret (KORHAN) seems to be very compactly packaged, that includes 35mm double-feed main gun with Airburst ammunition capacity, coaxial machine gun, YAMGÖZ situational awareness, AKKOR APS elements, EO & Sight systems, MSTTS interrogator, weapon detection systems, communication antennas and other electronic countermeasure systems.

Among the NATO standard weapon systems, Rafael is another major manufacturer that offers an up-to-date and all-in-one solution at this level. In this respect, Aselsan Korhan turret system will be a direct competitor with the Rafael's Samson turret family. Rafael SAMSON product family is an extremely compact unmanned turret and universal solution which applicable to different armored and tactical class military vehicles, containing all peripheral elements of Trophy APS, including its radars. Unlike the Aselsan Korhan system, turrets also have Spike ATGM option.

The gathering of 35mm or larger caliber main gun, coaxial grenade launcher or machine gun, integrated ATGM launcher in a single compact unmanned turret was one of the topics we talked about in defense forums for many years. When we look at France, Israel and other modernization programs, we see that this is becoming a more general trend besides having a place in soviet&russian armored doctrines for many years.

 

[AzeriTank]

Aselsan's new generation unmanned turret (KORHAN) seems to be very compactly packaged, that includes 35mm double-feed main gun with Airburst ammunition capacity, coaxial machine gun, YAMGÖZ situational awareness, AKKOR APS elements, EO & Sight systems, MSTTS interrogator, weapon detection systems, communication antennas and other electronic countermeasure systems.

Among the NATO standard weapon systems, Rafael is another major manufacturer that offers an up-to-date and all-in-one solution at this level. In this respect, Aselsan Korhan turret system will be a direct competitor with the Rafael's Samson turret family. Rafael SAMSON product family is an extremely compact unmanned turret and universal solution which applicable to different armored and tactical class military vehicles, containing all peripheral elements of Trophy APS, including its radars. Unlike the Aselsan Korhan system, turrets also have Spike ATGM option.

The gathering of 35mm or larger caliber main gun, coaxial grenade launcher or machine gun, integrated ATGM launcher in a single compact unmanned turret was one of the topics we talked about in defense forums for many years. When we look at France, Israel and other modernization programs, we see that this is becoming a more general trend besides having a place in soviet&russian armored doctrines for many years.

Germany use also similar turret for with 35mm

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1356849901582225413

The deliveries of KAPLAN and PARS STA continue