TR Land Vehicle Programs

Kartal1

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They want to use it as heavy remote fighting vehicle, i think thats the main plan. Now, it can only be remoted from 5-6 km away max, but they plan to add new cheap sattelite communication in the future or simple communicating through other uavs. Guys try to think little innovative, after all these years i dont know why you still dont trust SSM.
There are freaking 30.000 of these vehicles in the world, huge export possibilities
I don't think those will be unmanned ones. Important part of the modernization package are systems improving the comfort of the crew. Those are stop gap solution until the YNHZA project is finished so the Land Forces gain some minor but important capabilities as this is still an improvement over what we have right now.

134 ACV-15s will be modernized with 25mm NEFER unmanned stabilized weapon station, laser warning system, close range surveillance system, driver's vision system, navigation system, CBRN system, commander, gunner, personnel, driver display panels, protection lining, armor, air conditioning system, automatic fire extinguishing system etc. The modernization's completion target is 2024.

When it comes to Heavy Class Unmanned Ground Vehicles there is still a lot of work needed for the optimal integration of these systems in the structure of TSK.

As we know TSK is in the works for creating a unit that will be composed solely by UGVs and TSK is working closely with the companies related to this project so they can get some things straight like role definition concepts, capabilities, sub-systems.

Suppliers in close coordination with SSB and the Turkish Land Forces are working over 5 definition concepts with different capabilities and this is a very difficult task.

In order the system to be good enough for the current and future battle environment SSB-Turkish Land Forces required autonomous capabilities at certain levels.

After all the work over the theoretic capabilities, role concepts, needed sub-systems, suppliers will integrate all the needed systems to their platforms and practical tests will commence within the existing concepts and the tactical needs of the Turkish Land Forces.

At first the developed system packages for the different roles of these UGVs will be integrated to existing platforms like the FNSS Suvari or the Havelsan Kapgan for example. First deliveries are expected in 2023.

The Turkish Land Forces will test these new UGVs within their 5 main concepts and after that with the feedback given to the supplier companies the project will evolve, new capabilities will be added or existing ones will be optimized, platforms with new designs will come out and we will see an evolution of tactics, platforms, human-UGV/AI interaction on the battlefield. It will really be something spectacular to see how this evolves and how it changes the current rules on the battlefield.
 

AzeriTank

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I don't think those will be unmanned ones. Important part of the modernization package are systems improving the comfort of the crew. Those are stop gap solution until the YNHZA project is finished so the Land Forces gain some minor but important capabilities as this is still an improvement over what we have right now.

134 ACV-15s will be modernized with 25mm NEFER unmanned stabilized weapon station, laser warning system, close range surveillance system, driver's vision system, navigation system, CBRN system, commander, gunner, personnel, driver display panels, protection lining, armor, air conditioning system, automatic fire extinguishing system etc. The modernization's completion target is 2024.

When it comes to Heavy Class Unmanned Ground Vehicles there is still a lot of work needed for the optimal integration of these systems in the structure of TSK.

As we know TSK is in the works for creating a unit that will be composed solely by UGVs and TSK is working closely with the companies related to this project so they can get some things straight like role definition concepts, capabilities, sub-systems.

Suppliers in close coordination with SSB and the Turkish Land Forces are working over 5 definition concepts with different capabilities and this is a very difficult task.

In order the system to be good enough for the current and future battle environment SSB-Turkish Land Forces required autonomous capabilities at certain levels.

After all the work over the theoretic capabilities, role concepts, needed sub-systems, suppliers will integrate all the needed systems to their platforms and practical tests will commence within the existing concepts and the tactical needs of the Turkish Land Forces.

At first the developed system packages for the different roles of these UGVs will be integrated to existing platforms like the FNSS Suvari or the Havelsan Kapgan for example. First deliveries are expected in 2023.

The Turkish Land Forces will test these new UGVs within their 5 main concepts and after that with the feedback given to the supplier companies the project will evolve, new capabilities will be added or existing ones will be optimized, platforms with new designs will come out and we will see an evolution of tactics, platforms, human-UGV/AI interaction on the battlefield. It will really be something spectacular to see how this evolves and how it changes the current rules on the battlefield.
FNSS has tested a similar vehicle and said it could be applied to any of them
 
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TheInsider

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when you strap some TOW/OMTAS missiles on it, it's a better Bradley. speaking of which, @TheInsider are they going to strap AT missiles on these vehicles?
No plans right now. I don't know if the turret can be modified to fit any ATGM in the future. Karaok can be carried inside the vehicle and maybe OMTAS too.
APS can't be integrated into ZMA-15 as there are not enough spaces to put Akkor and Pulat APS is dangerous for the nearby infantry. You can station tanks to a safe distance from the infantry but those vehicles have to be near the infantry. KAMA APS should have been the best solution but it is not ready right now. At 360k per piece, we should upgrade existing platforms in big numbers. If we throw something like 300+ million $ we can upgrade 1000 vehicles (the price will come down slightly due to big order).
 

Kartal1

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FNSS has tested a similar vehicle and said it could be applied to any of them
It is not that it's not possible. It is possible but we are past this point right now. We are done with the integrating of remote control systems to ACVs. We can't treat such vehicles like RC toys. I think this will do more harm than good in a hostile environment. We will first prepare the ground, establish the ecosystem within the land forces for the wide usage of such vehicles within the doctrine of the Land Forces and then we will move to field testing.

We will soon reach levels of autonomy and UGV advancement where we can say that we will be one of the first. The capabilities that will be introduced to TSK with the Heavy Class Unmanned Ground Vehicle projects will be on entirely different level but things will go slowly. The practical tests and development of these systems will go for some time.

We will probably see a part of our old inventory of ACV-15s modernized with UGV systems package but later. Right now we must fill the capability gap of our existing mechanized forces that will have to face challenges in hostile environments like Syria for example. After YNHZA project takes a shape, we get some ~300 next generation IFVs we may witness some kind of UGV systems package integration to the modernized ACV-15 IFVs but right now they are needed in their manned role. They are the consequences of the slow moving YNHZA. Just a bang for buck urgent need IFVs until we receive some serious numbers of the new generation IFVs.
 

AzeriTank

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I can't believe they're still using joysticks to aim. One of the dumbest decisions possible and makes it so much harder for our soldiers to hit their target.
I remember one case that pkk took a big construction vehicle and they wanted to aim the tires to stop but they couldnt on move. I really think they need to update it. But, on the other hand, most of them will aim automatically, aselsan already use it with the sound system to send the location of target and automatically shoot it
 

Tornadoss

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I remember one case that pkk took a big construction vehicle and they wanted to aim the tires to stop but they couldnt on move. I really think they need to update it. But, on the other hand, most of them will aim automatically, aselsan already use it with the sound system to send the location of target and automatically shoot it
Maybe a helmet mounted display like in Atak can be developed for gunners. Or maybe it's on development I am not sure. Or for an easier solution use a touch screen select target on screen and let weapon to track it. when it's moving .
 

Kartal1

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Maybe a helmet mounted display like in Atak can be developed for gunners. Or maybe it's on development I am not sure. Or for an easier solution use a touch screen select target on screen and let weapon to track it. when it's moving .
Vibrations in a land vehicle are far more compared to an air vehicle and I personally don't think it would work.

The best solution is software aided automatic target acquisition system with separated barrel and E/O movement and an integrated laser range finder for easy and fast hold correction. Gunner will be assisted with the target acquisition also including the option of manual operation, hold correction and will not lose sight of the target in long range shots due to the barrel and E/O moving independently. I get the idea of the touchscreen and it is nice but we must also ensure the capability of button operation because screens can be damaged and this is not good if the vehicle is hit, someone's helmet hit the display but RCWS is still operational. We must ensure maximum operation capability in the harshest environment possible.

Major flaw of our 40mm RCWS systems integrated to BMC Vuran (Land Forces) is that the barrel is moving together with the E/O. Due to the slow speed of the 40mm rounds when making a vertical hold (adjustment) gunner loses sight of the target and fires a burst. In order to confirm that target was hit he is forced to brake his hold, get sight of the target and make adjustment again if the target needs more. This is a major flaw of our RCWS systems that I first managed to see during the NATO VJTF joint exercise Steadfast Defender 2021 in Romania. I am sure TSK is already aware of it and I hope that new solutions will be introduced so this problem is solved.
 

AzeriTank

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Vibrations in a land vehicle are far more compared to an air vehicle and I personally don't think it would work.

The best solution is software aided automatic target acquisition system with separated barrel and E/O movement and an integrated laser range finder for easy and fast hold correction. Gunner will be assisted with the target acquisition also including the option of manual operation, hold correction and will not lose sight of the target in long range shots due to the barrel and E/O moving independently. I get the idea of the touchscreen and it is nice but we must also ensure the capability of button operation because screens can be damaged and this is not good if the vehicle is hit, someone's helmet hit the display but RCWS is still operational. We must ensure maximum operation capability in the harshest environment possible.

Major flaw of our 40mm RCWS systems integrated to BMC Vuran (Land Forces) is that the barrel is moving together with the E/O. Due to the slow speed of the 40mm rounds when making a vertical hold (adjustment) gunner loses sight of the target and fires a burst. In order to confirm that target was hit he is forced to brake his hold, get sight of the target and make adjustment again if the target needs more. This is a major flaw of our RCWS systems that I first managed to see during the NATO VJTF joint exercise Steadfast Defender 2021 in Romania. I am sure TSK is already aware of it and I hope that new solutions will be introduced so this problem is solved.
New 30mm will have both advantage of 12.7 and 40mm air burst soon. But still 12.7 effective range is 6000m compare to 3000m 30mm, but im sure it could be increased
 

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Vibrations in a land vehicle are far more compared to an air vehicle and I personally don't think it would work.

The best solution is software aided automatic target acquisition system with separated barrel and E/O movement and an integrated laser range finder for easy and fast hold correction. Gunner will be assisted with the target acquisition also including the option of manual operation, hold correction and will not lose sight of the target in long range shots due to the barrel and E/O moving independently. I get the idea of the touchscreen and it is nice but we must also ensure the capability of button operation because screens can be damaged and this is not good if the vehicle is hit, someone's helmet hit the display but RCWS is still operational. We must ensure maximum operation capability in the harshest environment possible.

Major flaw of our 40mm RCWS systems integrated to BMC Vuran (Land Forces) is that the barrel is moving together with the E/O. Due to the slow speed of the 40mm rounds when making a vertical hold (adjustment) gunner loses sight of the target and fires a burst. In order to confirm that target was hit he is forced to brake his hold, get sight of the target and make adjustment again if the target needs more. This is a major flaw of our RCWS systems that I first managed to see during the NATO VJTF joint exercise Steadfast Defender 2021 in Romania. I am sure TSK is already aware of it and I hope that new solutions will be introduced so this problem is solved.
Even for an automated system they still need to be able to point at the target for the computer to take over aiming. These joysticks make it very hard to do that in a moving vehicle. And even with an automated system, often our soldiers want to target a specific thing, for example shoot at the head or hit someone peeking out from behind a wall, or hit a specific part of a VBIED. The designers should really look at mil-sims like Arma to see how useless joysticks are for aiming turrets.
 

Knowledgeseeker

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IMHO, Rafael's Samson MKII is the best NATO standard all-in-one turret in its medium caliber class. The system has also proven its success by being selected for the Stryker combat vehicle.


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View attachment 48365

If Aselsan can add fully integrated APS and optional ATGM launcher to its Korhan unmanned turret system, It will definitely be in very special position in its class and will be in high demand from abroad. In fact, this product may be the system that Aselsan will generate the most turnover in the coming years. Radar panels and direction finding system placements are seen on the Korhan. If ATGM launcher can be accommodated in this turret, Korhan will be the most compact turret as NATO standard 35mm.

Is it not planned that they will add anti-tank launchers to the Korhan turret? The Kama/Akkor lite will be integrated so that's good news, but ATGM launchers are a must. Every modern IFV that is being produced, or soon to be produced has these features. I hope we will see Omtas, or karaok.
 
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Stimpy75

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On paper the Samson turret looks good, but when the Poles tested it with the SK AS21, it really sucked, havin a lot of problems, especially with accuracy, the Poles went on and said if we get the AS21 than only with our own ZSSW-30 turret
 

Hasanrize

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yeah...i also want to know why?
what is your problem?
He is quite a shady figure releasing highly biased and often exaggerated information.

He said he visited TUSAŞ and was impressed by the size of MMU. MMU was taken to the final assembly line months later. How can you impress by the size if the thing is not even the final line?

That was one example; I saw him talking about Coronavirus at the beginning of the pandemic. He had literally zero knowledge of viruses, but that didn't stop him from making videos about them. Almost all of the ex-soldiers on Twitter openly discredit him. I even saw an ex-TUSAŞ test pilot commenting, "Couldn't you find even an ex-airforce private rank guy who saw real F-16 in his life instead of this guy" for him to TV channel?
 

Fuzuli NL

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He is quite a shady figure releasing highly biased and often exaggerated information.

He said he visited TUSAŞ and was impressed by the size of MMU. MMU was taken to the final assembly line months later. How can you impress by the size if the thing is not even the final line?

That was one example; I saw him talking about Coronavirus at the beginning of the pandemic. He had literally zero knowledge of viruses, but that didn't stop him from making videos about them. Almost all of the ex-soldiers on Twitter openly discredit him. I even saw an ex-TUSAŞ test pilot commenting, "Couldn't you find even an ex-airforce private rank guy who saw real F-16 in his life instead of this guy" for him to TV channel?
The problem with some of you lot is that you have to go to extremes regardless of the end result.
Like him or not (personally not a big fan), he's one of the few people with good contacts and has access, sometimes exclusively to many defence industry facilities, he's also known and respected by many.
Take the information (add amount of salt as desired) and leave the man.
 

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