TR Land Vehicle Programs

Zafer

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It all started after s400 purchase if I am not wrong. When everything was going fine what was the need of messing with west unnecessarily.
It started with the Syrian civil war which sent refugees through our borders.
We had to intervene the refugee flow by providing a safe zone inside Syria borders which in return triggered western reaction.
 

Mehmed Ali

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It started like since for ever, Democratic Greeks against tyrannical Persian Empire, Attila and particularly since Ottomans. Try to say that is because S 400 besides being childish is obviously an attempt to shift it to Erdogan and have own narrative put through. What West wants is to carry on from where they stopped and that's since the end of Turkish Liberation War. If someone has a bit objective perspective then it can be seen crystal clear. Even Inonu said something like that. I take it as I am sure that he was more clever about this subject then anyone of us .
Don't let people create "alternative " reality. Naturally my country will be swept in this storm.
 

Cabatli_TR

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When does our government understand the situation here?


In my opinion, it is beneficial for us that Greeks tend towards such purchases and borrow more money. According to Greek perception, tanks with improved electronics and armor packages will be effective against the Turks at the front, but this is not the case.

It doesn't matter how modern your tank is if we're talking for a country like Turkey which develops anti-tank missiles with world's most sophisticated guidance systems in every range class and integrating them into land and air vehicles or effectively using GPS/INS-Laser guided artillery rockets which can be counted as point precision in terms of CEP values. Even the anti-tank version of Kargı alone will be a serious threat to this purchase. The enemy hasn't seen anything yet. They are just trying to make hasty purchases with fear.
 

Mehmed Ali

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Greeks won't be alone in this fight, that's pretty clear. Kanal Istanbul is one of the things. What happens if during that conflict, some other " people " just like the force of " peace" simply amass 2 armoured divisions on the bulgarian border? As they have bases in Greece so they have it in Bulgaria. Cost for Greece? It has been the last 15 years pretty clear that Greece will not pay back much, what do they have to pay it with? Basically they rent this stuff to them, let them maintain it , store it and act like they are independent. By different means obstruct, channel invading forces and wait them at Kanal . Have enough flexibility to keep in check an amphibious attacks and prey for the best outcome.
 

Cypro

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I really wonder what is the worth of EEZ conflict between Turkey and Greece, how much wealth under the sea is.. They are pouring billions to stay strong against Turkey (may be both sides spend a lot), Greeks will going to bankrupt again, in meantime they never be able to utilize EEZ because of this conflict. Negotiating and may be giving up some of the EEZ could save them billions. But whether it is Greeks in Greece or in Cyprus, they are always stubborn and racist so I don't expect any logic.
 

Fairon

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Greeks won't be alone in this fight, that's pretty clear. Kanal Istanbul is one of the things. What happens if during that conflict, some other " people " just like the force of " peace" simply amass 2 armoured divisions on the bulgarian border? As they have bases in Greece so they have it in Bulgaria. Cost for Greece? It has been the last 15 years pretty clear that Greece will not pay back much, what do they have to pay it with? Basically they rent this stuff to them, let them maintain it , store it and act like they are independent. By different means obstruct, channel invading forces and wait them at Kanal . Have enough flexibility to keep in check an amphibious attacks and prey for the best outcome.

Good luck trying to pass that border with tanks. You know that border is surrounded with mountains right? Any fight in land border will end up costly for both sides and most likely ends up in a stalemate.

You are trying too hard to make Kanal look like a sensible project. It isn't.
 

Mehmed Ali

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I really wonder what is the worth of EEZ conflict between Turkey and Greece, how much wealth under the sea is.. They are pouring billions to stay strong against Turkey (may be both sides spend a lot), Greeks will going to bankrupt again, in meantime they never be able to utilize EEZ because of this conflict. Negotiating and may be giving up some of the EEZ could save them billions. But whether it is Greeks in Greece or in Cyprus, they are always stubborn and racist so I don't expect any logic.
War because the hidden treasure? Well it is clear to me for the last 25 years that wars in the middle east are not about oil. Why should someone fight for what they already have? All money invested in their banks and business, money invested in their business means no money is invested for poorer countries so they have to jump on ships and try to come. All technology of exploration and use in their hands. What they want more chaos and our disappearance. I can't see anything else 300bn for 8 9 million Greeks, 100bn for 5 6 milions Irish and we get NGOs which make sure we destroy ourselves. As simple as that.
 

Mehmed Ali

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Good luck trying to pass that border with tanks. You know that border is surrounded with mountains right? Any fight in land border will end up costly for both sides and most likely ends up in a stalemate.

You are trying too hard to make Kanal look like a sensible project. It isn't.
Ok but I think you would agree giving billions to penniless beggars is not sensible either
 

Heartbang

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Good luck trying to pass that border with tanks. You know that border is surrounded with mountains right? Any fight in land border will end up costly for both sides and most likely ends up in a stalemate.

You are trying too hard to make Kanal look like a sensible project. It isn't.
what mountains? Thrace is one of the 2 spots in Turkish geography thats favorable for enemy traversal. (the other being our border with Syria)
 

B.t.N

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what mountains? Thrace is one of the 2 spots in Turkish geography thats favorable for enemy traversal. (the other being our border with Syria)
Western Thrace is, all the way to Kavala. A narrow strip along the Aegean is pretty much the only pass!
 

TheInsider

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The Turkish side of the Thrace is mostly flat which is a disadvantage for us. There are a lot of rivers crossing and some urban areas that act as natural barriers. Supplying the Turkish side of the Thrace is easy as it has good infrastructure and is close to supply hubs. It can also be safely supplied from the Blacksea. The Greek side of the Thrace is a narrow strip and the border is far away from the rest of the country. It is hard to supply the front. The Greek side of the Thrace also has a sizeable Turkish population and population density is very low which means there are just a few urban centers. There is a reason why the US set up a base in Alexandrapouli. It has a secondary goal to stop a possible Turkish push. IMHO a Turkish ground offensive can develop very well as far as Xanti without the US base in Alexandrapouli.

300-350k people live in Evros, Rodopi, and İskeçe/Xanti with a sizeable Turkish and Muslim population.
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evros
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodopi (More than %50 of the population)
 

Mehmed Ali

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Western Thrace is, all the way to Kavala. A narrow strip along the Aegean is pretty much the only pass!
As I have said before, the attack or faint or similar pressure can come from different directions. I am sure that Turkish High Command think in a similar manner. By the way, what's next for the local beggars, a few HIMARS? Some more Apaches? After "paying" for all those Rafales, F16 block 70 , FDI, leopards , k21s etc what is the cost to throw in a few other goodies? Maybe a few M109 with Excalibur rounds , After all what's is money between brothers ? And there's an armoured division of Yankees behind just in the case if things go wrong. Or maybe they are there just for Russia? I mean all that highly developed train links towards Moldova will bring them there in no time?
 

B.t.N

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As I have said before, the attack or faint or similar pressure can come from different directions. I am sure that Turkish High Command think in a similar manner. By the way, what's next for the local beggars, a few HIMARS? Some more Apaches? After "paying" for all those Rafales, F16 block 70 , FDI, leopards , k21s etc what is the cost to throw in a few other goodies? Maybe a few M109 with Excalibur rounds , After all what's is money between brothers ? And there's an armoured division of Yankees behind just in the case if things go wrong. Or maybe they are there just for Russia? I mean all that highly developed train links towards Moldova will bring them there in no time?
I am sure our men in green has several projections on how to penetrate into Western Thrace. I just hope an attack along this corridor is not a strong option, otherwise it will make the Russian pontoon bridge disaster look like a cool pool party!
EDIT: I have driven this route several times, and I know what it looks like…
Greece’s IV. army corps will be delighted by such a move!
 
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Mehmed Ali

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I am sure our men in green has several projections on how to penetrate into Western Thrace. I just hope an attack along this corridor is not a strong option, otherwise it will make the Russian pontoon bridge disaster look like a cool pool party!
EDIT: I have driven this route several times, and I know what it looks like…
Greece’s IV. army corps will be delighted by such a move!
I didn't express myself correctly by attack along those lines and support I meant Greek attack. As
I said before I don't think that they would be alone
 
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Cabatli_TR

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Greece bases its strategy on mostly defense. Their Land and Air power transmission capabilities are incredibly weak and we're talking about a country that doesnt have the ability to refuel. They still mostly use old ancient unarmored trucks as APCs, and MRAP concept is almost non-existent except for the donated ones. For such an army to attempt an invasion in other lands, it means creating its own nightmare. In any case, the possibility of Greek army breaking through the defense line and advancing against the Turkish army is almost zero.

It has been decades since Greek army faced a real threat, except for the exercises and it is not possible for them to predict what their shortcomings or superiority might be or at what point they could overcome against an enemy developing own weapons that are totally technologically unknown by others. Such states have to adapt by taking heavy damage againts armies like self sufficient Turkey, which uses its battle-proven weapons and apply tactics and strategy on different types of enemies and develops it through mistakes, but the ability to adapt is basically a capability that can only be done by self-sufficient countries as well. So the only thing that a state like Greece can do against Turkey is to ask for help 24/7 and sign protection agreements by renting country's land to foreign soldiers.

Considering these conditions, when Greeks want a show, A war with Greece will take place deep inside Greek territory under any circumstances. How deep the Turkish army will go is a matter of the initiative. Dozens of planes or modernizing their tanks dont change anything in the field.
 

Heartbang

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Greece bases its strategy on mostly defense. Their Land and Air power transmission capabilities are incredibly weak and we're talking about a country that doesnt have the ability to refuel. They still mostly use old ancient unarmored trucks as APCs, and MRAP concept is almost non-existent except for the donated ones. For such an army to attempt an invasion in other lands, it means creating its own nightmare. In any case, the possibility of Greek army breaking through the defense line and advancing against the Turkish army is almost zero.

It has been decades since Greek army faced a real threat, except for the exercises and it is not possible for them to predict what their shortcomings or superiority might be or at what point they could overcome against an enemy developing own weapons that are totally technologically unknown by others. Such states have to adapt by taking heavy damage in the face of an army like self sufficient Turkey, which tries its battle-proven weapons and tactics and strategy on different types of enemies and develops it through victories but the ability to adapt is basically a capability that can be done by self-sufficient countries as well. So the only thing that a state like Greece can do against Turkey is to ask for help 24/7 and sign protection agreements by renting country's land to foreign soldiers.

Considering these conditions, when Greeks want a show, A war with Greece will take place deep inside Greek territory under any circumstances. How deep the Turkish army will go is a matter of the initiative. Dozens of planes or modernizing their tanks dont change anything in the field.
if i was a member of TAF who plans this war, id bait them into attacking, grind their armed forces in the heartlands of Anatolia, then waltz all the way to Athens. the damage they caused during the war could be easily repaid by the war reparations theyll made to pay, ensuring a swift rebuliding and making sure theyll be busy working their ass off to pay that debt, ensuring theyll NEVER, EVER be able to pull such stupid stunts like this ever again.
 

kenny

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BMC ALTUĞ seems to be in the new Call Of Duty game ?
Screenshot_39.png
 

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