TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Turko]

This Modernization is quite Expensive at 900M TL (150M USD)

I'm not convinced that this is logical because these Vehicles are old in their Core.
If an APC like TULPAR or KAPLAN 30 is too big or Expensive they could have chosen the same Vehicle from STA Project (Kaplan 10) to increase Commonality.
Since there are 344 Vehicles on order an Increase would lower the Price per Vehicle even further.


View attachment 21926

MoD shouldn't modernize more than 133 Vehicles.
I hope that this GZPT Modernization is a Gap filler for a serious APC fitted with Korhan 35mm Turret and AKKOR APS, perhaps 2x ATGM.

I am talking about this one.

View attachment 21927

Would it be too expensive or complicated to add laser guided ATGMs on new modernized IFVs? US Bradleys have ATGM along with the 25mm auto cannon.

As you know laser guided missiles are cheaper and Turkish defence industry reached enough technology of them.

My humble opinion , laser guided OMTAS would suit those IFVs. Just using 25mm auto cannon doesn't make full modernization.

 

[Spook]

This Modernization is quite Expensive at 900M TL (150M USD)

I'm not convinced that this is logical because these Vehicles are old in their Core.
If an APC like TULPAR or KAPLAN 30 is too big or Expensive they could have chosen the same Vehicle from STA Project (Kaplan 10) to increase Commonality.
Since there are 344 Vehicles on order an Increase would lower the Price per Vehicle even further.


View attachment 21926

MoD shouldn't modernize more than 133 Vehicles.
I hope that this GZPT Modernization is a Gap filler for a serious APC fitted with Korhan 35mm Turret and AKKOR APS, perhaps 2x ATGM.

I am talking about this one.

View attachment 21927

M113
Good condition ones get modernized for support roles, unmanned variants
Okay condition ones get affordable unmanned modernization for decoy, moving target practice.
Rest get donated to allies, friendly nations, scraped. target practice

ACV-15
Current IFV modernization, Pulat integration, UGV variant
Good condition get modernized for support roles
Okay condition get affordable unmanned modernization
Rest get sold/donated to allies, friendly nations, scraped. target practice

KAPLAN-10 APC
Affordable
Will replace M113 and some ACV-15 roles

ACV-30
Modern APC
Being used by HISAR, Korkut

ACV-30 based new next gen IFV, KORHAN
Shares parts with ACV-30
Replaces ACV-15 IFV

Will modernization program be something like this?

 

[TheInsider]

There is a modernization project for M113s. The engine will be changed with a hybrid engine and the vehicle will be turned into an unmanned tracked armored vehicle.

133 vehicles(It is probably 1 million for each IFV+spares and product guarantee) for 150 million$ is really cheap. If you want to buy a Tulpar with Korhan turret it will cost "at least" 5 million per unit. IMHO it might cost much more than this.

There is no push for new gen tanks and new gen IFVs. The land forces prioritize the modernization of the tank fleet and modernization of enough IFVs to conduct operations with the modernized tank fleet.

When and If Altay production starts at some point a tender for the new-gen IFV project will happen. Probably after BMC comes up with an IFV solution.

 

[Hexciter]

Probably after BMC comes up with an IFV solution.

If FNSS not comes with a better offer.

 

[Spook]

If FNSS not comes with a better offer.

Doesn't matter that much if they have a better offer. BMC got investors to satisfy that is assured by the current government. They even tried to get BMC involved with MMU program lol

 

[Ryder]

Doesn't matter that much if they have a better offer. BMC got investors to satisfy that is assured by the current government. They even tried to get BMC involved with MMU program lol

Trying to make BMC the jack of all trades is going to fail hard.

 

[Anmdt]

is going to fail hard.

No need to use future tense,it has already failed hard at the moment the company couldn't make and didn't have capabilities for the jobs they have received and they have eyed tank palet factory for the know-how.
Even Fırtına II is being made from scratch by the factory since the design, BMC doesn't have a bolt in it but it is labeled as "product of BMC", this tells a lot of things.

 

[Masesebe]

I once heard back then when there was no embargo on german engines that otokar got a contract of 400 hundred tulpar ifv along side altay tanks .
But again i think after the whole embargo situation changed a lot of acquiring plans .
When it comes to land vehicles products i see that fnss is the best since they create what the land forces needs , and lately since there is a plan to increase the domistic rate parts they created new product with a hight rate of domistic parts like pars izci , domistic armor and domistic tumosan engines .
And we will see more in idef 2021 , the fourth generation pars with astonishing 35 tons vehicle with is really a beast .
And lets be fair , what bmc is doing now is astonishing with the domistic powerpacks , that will take turkey to another level .
And what is astonishing is doing that in short time .
And we saw a glimpse of the new 8x8 vehicle wich is also a beast and with domistic powerpack which raise the domistic rate above 90% , and also that will open doors to other vehicle manufacturers to produce vehicle with domistic bmc and tumosan engines .
Lets hope this time otokar listen and try to make what the land forces want .
There will be people asking why there is no tracked fighting vehicle in the land forces arsenal , because there is a big chance for embargo .
We all know what germany did to the turkish altay tank project and we are suffering because of that .

 

[Spook]

I once heard back then when there was no embargo on german engines that otokar got a contract of 400 hundred tulpar ifv along side altay tanks .
But again i think after the whole embargo situation changed a lot of acquiring plans .
When it comes to land vehicles products i see that fnss is the best since they create what the land forces needs , and lately since there is a plan to increase the domistic rate parts they created new product with a hight rate of domistic parts like pars izci , domistic armor and domistic tumosan engines .
And we will see more in idef 2021 , the fourth generation pars with astonishing 35 tons vehicle with is really a beast .
And lets be fair , what bmc is doing now is astonishing with the domistic powerpacks , that will take turkey to another level .
And what is astonishing is doing that in short time .
And we saw a glimpse of the new 8x8 vehicle wich is also a beast and with domistic powerpack which raise the domistic rate above 90% , and also that will open doors to other vehicle manufacturers to produce vehicle with domistic bmc and tumosan engines .
Lets hope this time otokar listen and try to make what the land forces want .
There will be people asking why there is no tracked fighting vehicle in the land forces arsenal , because there is a big chance for embargo .
We all know what germany did to the turkish altay tank project and we are suffering because of that .

National powerpack projects for armored vehicles are funded and backed by government. All of the rights belong to the government not BMC.

Military still did not show official intention to acquire next gen IFV like Tulpar yet.

Otokar at this point is more focused on international market and they have been very successful with exports. Otokar being more focused on international market has to do with internal politics.

FNSS Pars 6x6, 8x8 has been ordered but no wide adoption yet. There is a ongoing tender for light armored tactical 6x6, 8x8 wheeled vehicles.

Finding alternatives for IFV like Tulpar, Pars APC/ACV would had been much easier than a 1500hp Altay powerpack.

German embargo is largely symbolic. If they really wanted to hurt Turkey. They would had went after submarines.

 

[Nutuk]

Submarines are different, they are financed by German banks. And payment is over a long period

If Germany cancels the subs, than there will be no payment to the German banks, is a shot in own foot!

 

[Huelague]

I once heard back then when there was no embargo on german engines that otokar got a contract of 400 hundred tulpar ifv along side altay tanks .
But again i think after the whole embargo situation changed a lot of acquiring plans .
When it comes to land vehicles products i see that fnss is the best since they create what the land forces needs , and lately since there is a plan to increase the domistic rate parts they created new product with a hight rate of domistic parts like pars izci , domistic armor and domistic tumosan engines .
And we will see more in idef 2021 , the fourth generation pars with astonishing 35 tons vehicle with is really a beast .
And lets be fair , what bmc is doing now is astonishing with the domistic powerpacks , that will take turkey to another level .
And what is astonishing is doing that in short time .
And we saw a glimpse of the new 8x8 vehicle wich is also a beast and with domistic powerpack which raise the domistic rate above 90% , and also that will open doors to other vehicle manufacturers to produce vehicle with domistic bmc and tumosan engines .
Lets hope this time otokar listen and try to make what the land forces want .
There will be people asking why there is no tracked fighting vehicle in the land forces arsenal , because there is a big chance for embargo .
We all know what germany did to the turkish altay tank project and we are suffering because of that .

I remember a article where Tulpar placed as one of the tens best IFV world wide.

 

[Huelague]

Submarines are different, they are financed by German banks. And payment is over a long period

If Germany cancels the subs, than there will be no payment to the German banks, is a shot in own foot!

What do you think where Roketsan get the technology for missile warheads? Or the design of Hisar missile family. Not to mention the smoothgun of our tanks. It begins with Kr..and ends with auts.
Germans are not hostile as we think to us.

 

[Nutuk]

They have conflicting interests. We do not have problems with German companies, they are eager to sell us what we want. Our problem is with German politicians, they want to block whatever they can (and they do, it is not MTU decision to stop engine deliveries)

 

[Huelague]

Not all german parties.

 

[CAN_TR]

Kaplan? Tulpar?
No. Never heard of it, let's modernize ACV-15 tin cans.

 

[Ryder]

Kaplan? Tulpar?
No. Never heard of it, let's modernize ACV-15 tin cans.

You can modernise a weapon system all ypu want there will be a time where you have to replace them.

Modernisation can go so far in the end you will have to buy something new.

Kaplan and tulpar are great IFV machines we which we need badly.

 

[Spook]

Submarines are different, they are financed by German banks. And payment is over a long period

If Germany cancels the subs, than there will be no payment to the German banks, is a shot in own foot!

What do you think where Roketsan get the technology for missile warheads? Or the design of Hisar missile family. Not to mention the smoothgun of our tanks. It begins with Kr..and ends with auts.
Germans are not hostile as we think to us.

Germany establishing hegemony over critical platforms/parts. Small missile warhead, smoothgun is nothing compared to submarine, critical ship engines. Germans were selling us submarines with design problems. We fixed it ourselves. We saved German submarine industry from falling apart with Reis-class. Why do you think project delayed too much? In the meanwhile we fixing submarines Germany got to prevent their engineers from going to other sectors for free.

Cerbe Sınıfı Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi ve Yerli Katkı Oranı

Tercih edilen denizaltı modeli bizden önce inşasına başlanma sırasıyla Yunanistan, Güney Kore ve Portekizin yaptığı gibi Tip214/1.800 sınıfı araç oldu.

uskudar.biz

%81 percent local production, %100 dependent on Germany submarines. Embargo to submarines would had not benefited Germany in any way. They would had end up encouraging us to build our own strategic/critical parts. We are yet to learn if we are working on it or not. It's not just about bank making its money back.

 

[Saithan]

ZMA Modernizasyon Projesinde Atış Testleri Başarılı Oldu - C4 Defence

ZMA Modernizasyon Projesinde ön prototip ZMA üzerinde araç sürüş ve atış testleri başarılı şekilde gerçekleşti.

www.c4defence.com

Firing Tests Succeeded in the ZMA Modernization Project (Google translate ftw).

 

[Spook]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400745367990321152

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1400737333322911746

Pulat APS integration continuing

 

[Stuka]

Latest Logistic Trucks used for ASELSAN solutions seem to be all from BMC Defence.

ASELSAN has decided to mostly use BMC Trucks in there newest Magazine Update.

Examples below:

BMC 5 TON Armored
BMC 5 TON
BMC AMAZON

For the first time we see BMC AMAZON Vehicle being used