TR Marine Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)

Afif

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Common fallacy in our circles. Weapons systems don’t win wars. Doctrines, training, CONOPS and logistics do. There’s also nothing preventing from what happened over Israel last week occurring again over Aegean where multiple countries shoot down our ballistic missiles and drones in air. US did shoot down our drone over Syria.

Yes, although it is low on the possibility spectrum, but nevertheless a scary thought.
If, let's say, French, German and (God forbid) US AD systems and aircrafts are deployed in similar manner, even only defensively, it would become a completely different scenario all together.
 

Ryder

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Yes, although it is low on the possibility spectrum, but nevertheless a scary thought.
If, let's say, French, German and (God forbid) US AD systems and aircrafts are deployed in similar manner, even only defensively, it would become a completely different scenario all together.

Thats why I hope Russia and China can be strengthen so the USA and EU are preoccupied with them.

If Turkiye was the only growing power they will use whatever they can to knock Turkiye down.

If Russia and China are knocked out they will come for Turkiye.

Mark my words Turkiye-USA/EU are on a collision course. If NATO had a expel mechanism they would have easily expelled Turkiye.

Since Turkiye is in NATO they cant think of invading or doing anything they can to destabilise the country.

Clash of Civilisations. Seeing China, Russia, EU and the USA all weakening each other and over time become weak is good for the Turks.
 

BaburKhan

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We need more Satellites and loitering ammunition of various ranges as well. We also need to develop modern methods of delivering clusterbombs.

Any tusle between Turkey and Greece will result in fast interference of Allied nations and they'll only do so if it goes bad for Greece.

I several Posts I mentioned the Importance of SAR Satelittes and high Altitude ISR UAV with SAR POD. It can classify Targets Day and Night, even under cloudy Conditions. If any interference will happen, they will use the Aircraft Carrier. Those Assests who will Support Fighter Jets of an enemy Interference Force like or MPA which will Patrol over the eastern Mediterran, need to be striked.

TurAF need long- Range BVR Missiles for Kaan with a Range up to 400 km, which can Target enemy AWACS, MPA and Tankers. A Missile in Category like the PL-17.

Beside Tayfun ASBM there is a need for a Ramjet powered AShM which can reach Ranges from 500 - 900 km, against well protected Assests.

It's also important to modernize the Equipment of the Allies in Libya, important for them are modern Air Defence and stealthy FAC and light Corvettes. It must be agressivly marketet to them.

In my Opinion we need an A2/AD Strategy like China.
 

Mis_TR_Like

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A component AD network would shoot down extremely slow flying loitering ammunitions as well as subsonic cruise missiles efficiently. Yes, even the stealthy ones. Today's AESA radars are too sensitive to miss them when they appears over the horizon. And modern AD C2 nodes are incredibly fast, automated, and connected to agile Interceptors ready to launch on seconds notice. Also, low cost sustainable solutions against cheap long range loitering ammunition are increasingly becoming available. I.e. radar guided AAA guns, low cost lasers, etc.

People need to let go of this obsession with loitering ammunition as a solution to all context. Yes they are great for localized tactical fight in the land domain, But they aren't gonna have the same effect in a long range air and naval battle that is likely to be fought over the Agean.


I think the right approach is first to understand the TurAF's strategic and operational logic behind the specific procurement push. Once we understand in depth how they are planning to fight the next war, it becomes easier to analize why they are buying what they are buying. And why they are emphasizing on X instead of Y. Otherwise, Just making a long list and saying TurAF needs this and this with this amount and this amount is not very fruitful in the end. Because it is pretty much the case that we often miss the integrated bigger picture that is present in the military decision makers' minds, as well as lots of smalls things that's when put together makes a different picture than that of what we have imagined primarily. Yet we wouldn't notice those small things unless we are specifically pointed to.

Not every country is adequately prepared for all out air defence. Israel really does stand out in this regard. Israel's small land size means that even its shorter range systems cover a large portion of the country. That leaves a lot less opportunities for low flying munitions to slip past. I could only imagine how concentrated the defences are around bases.

We should realise that Greece has one big advantage. Its islands can host short range air defences, including laser and CIWS, blocking attacks across the Aegean.

With all that said, saturation is still one of the most important tactics... and I'm pretty sure TSK has ordered a lot of şimşeks.

images-6.jpeg


One of my concerns when it comes to decoys like Şimşek (which btw doesn't count as a loitering munition) is if the enemy has prior intelligence about them and refuses to shoot them down as it thinks they're not a threat.

It seems that TUSAŞ agrees.



We can only imagine what types of tactics and weapons TSK will use against air defences, but the photo below should give a little sneak peak for what's to come.

3 super advanced weapons and 1 toy 🤫

images-7.jpeg
 

Afif

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Not every country is adequately prepared for all out air defence. Israel really does stand out in this regard. Israel's small land size means that even its shorter range systems cover a large portion of the country. That leaves a lot less opportunities for low flying munitions to slip past. I could only imagine how concentrated the defences are around bases.

Yes, that is true in case of Israel. But I was only making a general observation.

We should realise that Greece has one big advantage. Its islands can host short range air defences, including laser and CIWS, blocking attacks across the Aegean.

You are right.

With all that said, saturation is still one of the most important tactics... and I'm pretty sure TSK has ordered a lot of şimşeks.

View attachment 67380

One of my concerns when it comes to decoys like Şimşek (which btw doesn't count as a loitering munition) is if the enemy has prior intelligence about them and refuses to shoot them down as it thinks they're not a threat.

It seems that TUSAŞ agrees.


Iirc, Simsek will have advanced feature of mimicking aircraft's radar signature like ADM-160 MALD. Consequently, enemy AD will likely have hard time distinguishing.
 

Kartal1

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Within the scope of Confidence Building Measures Between Turkey and Greece, Greek 3rd Mechanized Infantry Brigade Commander Brigadier General Vardis Charkianakis, Greek Defense Attaché Colonel Georgios Bellos and Lieutenant Colonel Georgios Alexopoulos visited our 54th Mechanized Infantry Brigade Command on April 16, 2024.

 

Heartbang

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Within the scope of Confidence Building Measures Between Turkey and Greece, Greek 3rd Mechanized Infantry Brigade Commander Brigadier General Vardis Charkianakis, Greek Defense Attaché Colonel Georgios Bellos and Lieutenant Colonel Georgios Alexopoulos visited our 54th Mechanized Infantry Brigade Command on April 16, 2024.

"Çarkıyanakis"
 
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Bogeyman 

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Ankara to map marine parks in tit-for-tat move against Athens​


After Greece announced it would create two marine parks in the Aegean Sea, Türkiye launched its own initiative to map similar parks in the region in a tit-for-tat move.

According to a Turkish official, who spoke on condition of anonymity due to restrictions on talking to the media, Türkiye’s Transportation and Infrastructure Ministry will plan to map out its own marine parks in the region.






Greece will create the parks by the end of this year, the country’s environment and energy minister said in April. This announcement was harshly criticized by neighbor Türkiye, which has accused Athens of exploiting environmental issues to push a geopolitical agenda.

The park in the Aegean will have a series of rocky islets at its core, covering more than 8,000 square kilometers (3,088 square miles) or just over 6.6% of Greece’s territorial waters. The second park in the Ionian Sea in western Greece will extend over 14,000 square kilometers (over 5,400 square miles) from the north of the island of Kefalonia to Antikythira in the south, covering 11% of Greek territorial waters. The parks will be monitored using drones, satellites and artificial intelligence after 2026. The area would be reserved for scientific research where ship traffic is controlled and there is no construction activity.






A Turkish diplomatic source said that Ankara was not priorly informed of the issue nor has it received any kind of consultation or offer for cooperation. The move is seen as a fait accompli.

The latest incident of marine park row displays another example of the two countries’ inability or unwillingness to cooperate on critical issues and threatens to disrupt the current positive atmosphere in bilateral ties. Türkiye and Greece already experience decades-old disputes on legitimate rights and interests in the Aegean Sea, including disagreements on the Aegean continental shelf territorial waters as well as conflicting claims over small islets and rocks. The creation of marine parks in such a contested territory will make matters worse if a formula for cooperation is not found.

Greece’s unilateral move without consulting Türkiye translates into territorialization through boundary-making and regulating the use of resources within this geographically defined area.

Marine parks, designated parks that set aside a certain area to achieve ecological sustainability and enable marine recreational activities, can constitute an area for cooperation or contestation and even regional conflict. The issue is sensitive in that international law does not provide clear guidance for transboundary marine conservation.






There are cases in which states have used marine parks to acquire rights over contested marine resources, restrict the freedom of others and establish sovereignty over maritime space.

However, successful examples also exist in terms of cooperation. One example is the cooperation between Malaysia and the Philippines in 1996 on the first marine transboundary protected area in Asia, namely the Turtle Island Heritage Protected Area in the Sulu Sea. Within this scope, a memorandum of agreements was made between the two governments.

According to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), approximately one-third of all terrestrial high-biodiversity sites cross national land borders.

Therefore, cooperation is inevitable. A formula of shared governance for the conservation areas can be reached after a process of consultation and information exchange, after which joint committees for management and monitoring can be created. Legal means, such as drafting bilateral treaties or memorandums of understanding, can reinforce the process.

When Türkiye dubbed the move as a “fait accompli,” Greece retorted that Ankara was “politicizing a clearly environmental issue,” although the Turkish Foreign Ministry voiced that “Türkiye is always ready to cooperate with Greece in the Aegean Sea.” Instead of reciprocal accusations, the two countries need to find a recipe to overcome this latest challenge posed by unilateral declarations of marine parks. Athens needs to recognize Ankara’s offer of cooperation and halt the creation of the parks until coordination is reached at an official level between the relevant institutions. Marine parks and transboundary conservation efforts, in general, are an ideal way to preserve nature while nourishing cooperation among states and their people. Once again, dialogue is essential.



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