TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

[Nutuk]

I have no hope on end of terror when we keep trying to fill a bucket without a bottom

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I have no hope on end of terror when we keep trying to fill a bucket without a bottom

I myself am of Turkish-Kurdish descent, I don't understand why this is not actively prevented.
If politicians have contact with the PKK, YPG, then these people must be banned from politics completely and indefinitely.
The HDP must be dissolved and anyone who has had contact with the PKK & YPG must be banned from politics so that these wankers can't form a new party.
The aim of these people is to drive a wedge into the Turkish/Kurdish community, which has long been partly related and related by marriage. The whole thing is partly sponsored by foreign countries so that a civil war breaks out and the country becomes unstable.

 

[Saithan]

Ad long as the government wants to stay in power and willing to work with Hudapar and such parties no change is going to happen and those who want to drive a wedge can work freely to do so. Only option left is pure secularity. And full military service duty to all including headscarf wearing girls. You need to show them who the enemy is which only happens when they face the enemy at gun point.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Ad long as the government wants to stay in power and willing to work with Hudapar and such parties no change is going to happen and those who want to drive a wedge can work freely to do so. Only option left is pure secularity. And full military service duty to all including headscarf wearing girls. You need to show them who the enemy is which only happens when they face the enemy at gun point.

I see it the same way!
Islam can be the identification of a country or spiritual guidance to strengthen a character and give a person a guideline or moral compass if he wants to accept it.
Islam as a faith must have a positive effect on people and bring a certain moral standard into society.
But it must not play a role in politics under any circumstances, then we would be back in the Stone Age.
The danger is too great that we have a religious fanatic in power, and when push comes to shove we have to hope for a miracle from God. When stealth bombers are on the move and reduce the country to rubble because we have failed to bring education into society to promote technology.
We would lose all technological progress and education for generations if we were to give power to such charlatans. You can see how cool and nice it is to live in Iran & Afghanistan, after all, the entire human race lives there...and is happy.
No idiot would want to live in countries like Iran & Afghanistan if they had the choice.
People need to wake up and drive out people who want Sharia law wherever they can.
They are even worse than the PKK & YPG and a much bigger threat.
I am honest, the CHP with their own understanding of Kemalism have ruined the country.
Anyone who knows the past knows what I'm talking about. The progress in technology was qausi non-existent in the heartland and that was their biggest mistake.
There was a divide in the country in both social status and education.
Turkey is more than Istanbul and Ankara, you may like the AKP or not, but they have learned that.
They have raised the country to a new technological level and nobody can deny that.

 

[Huelague]

An example of how damaging these videos are - this old video of an unlawful field execution of prisoners is circulating in the Arab world again, very damaging for the reputation.

The soldiers were penalized but the damage cannot be undone. Once it's on the internet, it's permanent.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1739627346448023995

You make anti Turkish propaganda and playing Western game. Why?

 

[Fairon]

You make anti Turkish propaganda and playing Western game. Why?

He doesn't?

He is saying that publishing this kind of videos in order to canalize rage and anger will hurt Turkish foreign image and politics.

It is a worrying trend that publishing misconduct of police officers and soldiers with honor if the opposing side thoughts to be deserving. These things happens from time to time, yes but publishing this videos are idiocy. There is no way that these kind of videos won't hurt Turkiye in the long run.

West doesn't needs to do anything to play their "game", we are doing it for them.

 

[Aqerdf]

We neither conduct systematic out-of-the law actions or having relaxed RoE.

But thanks to these "recorded individual acts", we could have taunted as if we conducting systematic out-of-the law actions or relaxed Rules of Engagement. Like US,IL,RF,EU,etc.


And it's hurting my brain really, because we even has to sacrifice our precious soldiers when we avoided to conduct these behaviours.

From one of countless examples: One Army Officer was martyred few years ago, in one of Syria Ops. Main reason was that he and his troops has to avoided shooting "suspicious civilian clothed people", from a far they were acting suspicious because they watching our troops and acting as like a spotter team. Minutes after that, mortar rounds landed on our troop's position...

 

[mehmed beg]

I went through the comments of that Twitter clip and as could have seen, approval of disapproval of that kind is completely unimportant.
Anyway, whatever Turkey does who has the affinity would approve. But as I could have seen, even if Turkey makes some people golden, it won't make any difference to them.
I rather, they they did it without camera , but just for sake of the professionalism.
Anyway, I had a chance to watch these things live in Bosnia. Sorry to tell you but some people ain't worth a breath.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I don't know the video, this is the first time I've seen it, but if it really was Turkish soldiers who executed the two prisoners without trial. Then that is very very worrying because that is 100% a war crime and against the Geneva Convention. Even if both women killed Turkish soldiers beforehand.
If now the foreign intelligence services of the USA and various EU countries have more information and evidence that there were several of these executions then there will be a huge problem.
Why are these soldiers not brought before a court martial, these soldiers have done more harm to Turkey than the two terrorists who would have rotted in prison, and what if the two women were forcibly recruited by the PKK/YPG because that also exists! The terrorist organization also holds the families of some forced recruits as collateral.
As soon as the terrorist or soldier is disarmed or surrenders, he must not be killed under any circumstances.
That is murder and it is premeditated, no matter how high the emotions of the soldiers run.
There have to be rules in war otherwise you become a monster yourself.

 

[Sanchez]

We neither conduct systematic out-of-the law actions or having relaxed RoE.

But thanks to these "recorded individual acts", we could have taunted as if we conducting systematic out-of-the law actions or relaxed Rules of Engagement. Like US,IL,RF,EU,etc.


And it's hurting my brain really, because we even has to sacrifice our precious soldiers when we avoided to conduct these behaviours.

From one of countless examples: One Army Officer was martyred few years ago, in one of Syria Ops. Main reason was that he and his troops has to avoided shooting "suspicious civilian clothed people", from a far they were acting suspicious because they watching our troops and acting as like a spotter team. Minutes after that, mortar rounds landed on our troop's position...

There's a pretty big line between shifting ROEs and executing unarmed militants while taking a video. Pretty sure we can stay between the two.

 

[Aqerdf]

I don't know the video, this is the first time I've seen it, but if it really was Turkish soldiers who executed the two prisoners without trial. Then that is very very worrying because that is 100% a war crime and against the Geneva Convention. Even if both women killed Turkish soldiers beforehand.
If now the foreign intelligence services of the USA and various EU countries have more information and evidence that there were several of these executions then there will be a huge problem.
Why are these soldiers not brought before a court martial, these soldiers have done more harm to Turkey than the two terrorists who would have rotted in prison, and what if the two women were forcibly recruited by the PKK/YPG because that also exists! The terrorist organization also holds the families of some forced recruits as collateral.
As soon as the terrorist or soldier is disarmed or surrenders, he must not be killed under any circumstances.
That is murder and it is premeditated, no matter how high the emotions of the soldiers run.
There have to be rules in war otherwise you become a monster yourself.

Umm, what Geneva Convention ? And what women ? They didn't get there from mall shopping. This was right after their attack from years years ago ! We lost good people. Regarding conversation, these're not state-outlet. They don't have those privelages after terrorizing my precious country with bomb attacks and what not.

Numbers are there, we don't butcher civilians, surrender-rate is not bad; these are the points for we don't conduct systematic punishment.

You can't black-sheep hole country for these kind of unprofessionally individual acts. Even after we lost so good people for not acting when we needed to acting, for the sake of strict RoE and goodwill.

What makes you think that these unprofessionally acted personnel wasn't brought up to court-martial and getting discharged btw ?

????

Please don't worry, it's not aha! case for our spineless enemies.


I don't have time for this thing, those dudes paid their price in the court. For unprofessionalism.

Discharged and punishment applied..

Next...

(No pun intended, please don't take personal)

 

[Aqerdf]

There's a pretty big line between shifting ROEs and executing unarmed militants while taking a video. Pretty sure we can stay between the two.

Do you see systematic out-of-the law actions other than this ?

RoE is part of it, how could you handle that spotter situation?

This things create pressure bulk on personnel. Some personnel will went on enemy, in 1000 to 1case style, and some other personnel will record, because what is this thingy, they called neurons, what's that..?

Agreed on act of unprofessionalism by these individual personnels.

There's no mistake on that.

 

[Bozan]

You make anti Turkish propaganda and playing Western game. Why?

I'm simply making a point based on what I have seen on social media that I think is a serious problem. We already have issues with soldiers using apps like tiktok and opsec.

 

[Bozan]

Reposting without links to any graphic content according to forum rules - sorry moderators.

In TR any kind of court martials or serious disciplinary action is usually done behind closed doors to maintain the reputation of the army (unless it's political).

The problem is when idiots in the army leaks videos like this to social media and there is no public trial, people think the army approves or condones this behaviour, because disciplinary action is usually behind closed doors. This becomes a negative cycle over time.

It is worse when you have keyboard warriors who do not serve and have never seen combat sharing videos like this everywhere. They are usually the same accounts who share martyr names before the governments publicize it.

There was a video in the last few years of soldiers decapitating a PKK body as well and holding the head. Whenever it's on twitter PKK supporters and westerners compare the entire Turkish army to ISIS because of a few people.

I don't know if it is worse that this video was recorded and leaked to social media so people can use it against TR or that even years later, there are keyboard warriors that post it to social media, an international audience, as something to be proud of.

 

[Kartal1]

Guys, I saw some of the posts in the thread. I know very well what you mean and what you are trying to say by posting the content, but there are better ways. Please stay away from posting too graphic content in the thread and respect the PERSEC and OPSEC of the TSK as much as you can. I know, that content can be found easily and there are repeated violations by TSK personnel on this matter, but by posting it we are doing more damage than something good. We should not fall in the trap of anger. Let's try to contribute in other ways.

Thank you!

 

[Bozan]

Guys, I saw some of the posts in the thread. I know very well what you mean and what you are trying to say by posting the content, but there are better ways. Please stay away from posting too graphic content in the thread and respect the PERSEC and OPSEC of the TSK as much as you can. I know, that content can be found easily and there are repeated violations by TSK personnel on this matter, but by posting it we are doing more damage than something good. We should not fall in the trap of anger. Let's try to contribute in other ways.

Thank you

Agreed, but I think we have a serious problem. There are lots of these strange thousand follower accounts. Some of them only post these types of footage. Some only focus on a Turkish audience. Then there are lots of smaller accounts who use this footage in replies to international audiences. Usually PKK supporters, but sometimes westerners. Then it becomes an issue.

And if I was more into x-files, I would begin to think it's coordinated sometimes.

 

[Kartal1]

Agreed, but I think we have a serious problem. There are lots of these strange thousand follower accounts. Some of them only post these types of footage. Some only focus on a Turkish audience. Then there are lots of smaller accounts who use this footage in replies to international audiences. Usually PKK supporters, but sometimes westerners. Then it becomes an issue.

View attachment 64248

And if I was more into x-files, I would begin to think it's coordinated sometimes.

It is in result of the lack of discipline and a wrong motivation. By sharing these images they think that they are doing a moral damage to the terrorists and fulfilling some kind of revenge, but they miss the moment where this footage is used against themselves. I know very well how these small pages operate and I also saw many times how personnel or people related to the personnel in question asks the pages to remove the content, because they are going to face disciplinary charges.

I think this is in result of the weak propaganda capability of our Ministry of National Defence and the Armed Forces as a whole. The personnel feels the gap of propaganda and tries to fill it by themselves. Looking at other armed forces in NATO I rarely see such kind of showoff by soldiers of any armed forces.

First of all the proper motivation should be cultivated to be a member in the armed forces. People with complexes, fulfilling their need for a power status should not be tolerated in the armed forces and proper warrior culture must be established based on discipline and patriotism. Every unit should do it within themselves by forming their unit culture and unique environment. Good example in TSK are the Air Forces.

Second, TSK with cooperation of other decision taking authorities must ensure that OPSEC and PERSEC violations are strictly punished in the harshest ways so the personnel would think twice before sharing sensitive information.

Third, TSK should work on a capable and trained media team which would fill the need for propaganda, boost morale among TSK personnel and the Nation, ensure the creation of properly themed quality content in which the above qualities like the unique warrior culture of different units of the TSK, discipline and positive ideals are strongly encouraged, posts content that is demoralizing to the terrorist organization, in short doing the work of these social media pages in question, but in a safe, strong way, conveying the needed message. Next to the "Mothers are reuniting with their children" there should be "Don't f*ck with us" type of content reminding anybody who the Turkish Armed Forces are. Low quality rap, grandpas in uniforms and "misliyle" type of messages is not appealing at all to me as a young man.

For the first two TSK must work on itself alone, but in the third I am sure partner countries can help. I watched the last documentary by Azerbaijan on the capture of Hadrut. While not the best, I clearly got the message, it was informational enough, visuals were good, professionalism of the personnel and equipment showoff was good and it was a good entertainment for me to watch it. No PERSEC or OPSEC violations and believable narrative pushed in a good way. We lack much of it unfortunately as we can't represent ourselves in the best way and this is giving a birth to inferiority complexes within our personnel that are the reason for the breaching of laws so the personnel can fill the gap in him by sharing the content themselves hoping that they are going to get the recognition they crave. Knowing how our operations against various terrorist organizations and other threats went I can clearly say that our soldiers are no less than any Azerbaijani soldier and the TSK has much to be proud of and has its full right to show off.

 

[Ryder]

You guys expect wars to be civilised.

Seriously wherever you go there will always be fcked up people comitting awful crimes.

State armies and insurgent or even terror groups will commit crimes no matter what.

Islam has its own rules when it comes to war and conduct before the geneva conventions by the way. You really think most Muslims follow this? Muslims themselves will even destroy the villages of their fellow Muslims.

Turkic peoples and the Mongols had their conduct of war but still we would go and raze cities even take the population to slavery or destroy the city.

We seen what the Mongols done to Baghdad.

Regardless of which peoples, races or civilisations and empires. War will always be bloody and awful. Humans will always seek revenge no matter what. After 12 soldiers got martyred by a Piece of shit terrorist group I wont be surprised if some Turkish soldiers gone rogue and conducted their own acts for revenge.

Dont forget how Pkk killed numerous of our soldiers by kidnapping them then executing them. Isis also burnt even beheaded some of our soldiers and placed them on spikes as a trophy.

A lot of our enemies are fcked up. Turkish soldier always has an honour code and a code of conduct that should be followed but man war itself will always fck up people no matter what.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Umm, what Geneva Convention ? And what women ? They didn't get there from mall shopping. This was right after their attack from years years ago ! We lost good people. Regarding conversation, these're not state-outlet. They don't have those privelages after terrorizing my precious country with bomb attacks and what not.

Numbers are there, we don't butcher civilians, surrender-rate is not bad; these are the points for we don't conduct systematic punishment.

You can't black-sheep hole country for these kind of unprofessionally individual acts. Even after we lost so good people for not acting when we needed to acting, for the sake of strict RoE and goodwill.

What makes you think that these unprofessionally acted personnel wasn't brought up to court-martial and getting discharged btw ?

????

Please don't worry, it's not aha! case for our spineless enemies.


I don't have time for this thing, those dudes paid their price in the court. For unprofessionalism.

Discharged and punishment applied..

Next...

(No pun intended, please don't take personal)

It doesn't matter what the Terrorist womens have done that justifies an execution.
This is exactly why the court exists, both women would probably have been sentenced to at least 50-60 years in prison, depending on the situation, probably even life imprisonment.
The soldiers are not judges and executioners, just such actions are enough for the PKK/YPG to increase their reputation, for them the video is like winning the jackpot. Everyone knows how much damage these terrorists have done to Turkey, but the second you do this as a soldier under the flag of Turkey, it is no longer a private crime by some people of weak character.
You are actively harming Turkey, especially if the video goes viral abroad and in Turkey. It would give the impression that war crimes are the order of the day, and Kurdish ultra-leftist opposition groups such as the HDP would be encouraged to put this into the minds of people in Turkey. Images and videos have a huge impact on very young people whose moral compass is not yet properly adjusted, and are very easy to manipulate.

The point is not only to fight the terrorist organization PKK & YPG but also to expose them and completely destroy their reputation.
The PKK & YPG now have a reputation in Germany & Europe that portrays them as freedom fighters, we are talking about very good Advertising & Propaganda.
In Europe, this war is not being spread as a war against terror, but as a war against Kurds in general.
This means that Turkey has not done its homework to portray these people as what they are.
The media have long since got behind them and Turkey is portrayed as an oppressor in its own country and an aggressor that does not respect the rights of the Kurds.

 

[Ryder]

It doesn't matter what the Terrorist womens have done that justifies an execution.
This is exactly why the court exists, both women would probably have been sentenced to at least 50-60 years in prison, depending on the situation, probably even life imprisonment.
The soldiers are not judges and executioners, just such actions are enough for the PKK/YPG to increase their reputation, for them the video is like winning the jackpot. Everyone knows how much damage these terrorists have done to Turkey, but the second you do this as a soldier under the flag of Turkey, it is no longer a private crime by some people of weak character.
You are actively harming Turkey, especially if the video goes viral abroad and in Turkey. It would give the impression that war crimes are the order of the day, and Kurdish ultra-leftist opposition groups such as the HDP would be encouraged to put this into the minds of people in Turkey. Images and videos have a huge impact on very young people whose moral compass is not yet properly adjusted, and are very easy to manipulate.

The point is not only to fight the terrorist organization PKK & YPG but also to expose them and completely destroy their reputation.
The PKK & YPG now have a reputation in Germany & Europe that portrays them as freedom fighters, we are talking about very good Advertising & Propaganda.
In Europe, this war is not being spread as a war against terror, but as a war against Kurds in general.
This means that Turkey has not done its homework to portray these people as what they are.
The media have long since got behind them and Turkey is portrayed as an oppressor in its own country and an aggressor that does not respect the rights of the Kurds.

Bro the Armenian terror gangs before the pkk by the way were all praised as freedom fighters in the Press in Britain, France, Germany, Austria, USA and Russia.

This was during Ottoman times by the way.

As much as we conduct ourselves properly you will never sway public opinion in the West or Europe in general.

Compare our image in Asia, Africa and in South America and compare it to the EU.

Even Australia engages in Turcophobia but its much worse in the Usa and the EU.