TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

[Sanchez]

We neither conduct systematic out-of-the law actions or having relaxed RoE.

But thanks to these "recorded individual acts", we could have taunted as if we conducting systematic out-of-the law actions or relaxed Rules of Engagement. Like US,IL,RF,EU,etc.


And it's hurting my brain really, because we even has to sacrifice our precious soldiers when we avoided to conduct these behaviours.

From one of countless examples: One Army Officer was martyred few years ago, in one of Syria Ops. Main reason was that he and his troops has to avoided shooting "suspicious civilian clothed people", from a far they were acting suspicious because they watching our troops and acting as like a spotter team. Minutes after that, mortar rounds landed on our troop's position...

There's a pretty big line between shifting ROEs and executing unarmed militants while taking a video. Pretty sure we can stay between the two.

 

[Aqerdf]

I don't know the video, this is the first time I've seen it, but if it really was Turkish soldiers who executed the two prisoners without trial. Then that is very very worrying because that is 100% a war crime and against the Geneva Convention. Even if both women killed Turkish soldiers beforehand.
If now the foreign intelligence services of the USA and various EU countries have more information and evidence that there were several of these executions then there will be a huge problem.
Why are these soldiers not brought before a court martial, these soldiers have done more harm to Turkey than the two terrorists who would have rotted in prison, and what if the two women were forcibly recruited by the PKK/YPG because that also exists! The terrorist organization also holds the families of some forced recruits as collateral.
As soon as the terrorist or soldier is disarmed or surrenders, he must not be killed under any circumstances.
That is murder and it is premeditated, no matter how high the emotions of the soldiers run.
There have to be rules in war otherwise you become a monster yourself.

Umm, what Geneva Convention ? And what women ? They didn't get there from mall shopping. This was right after their attack from years years ago ! We lost good people. Regarding conversation, these're not state-outlet. They don't have those privelages after terrorizing my precious country with bomb attacks and what not.

Numbers are there, we don't butcher civilians, surrender-rate is not bad; these are the points for we don't conduct systematic punishment.

You can't black-sheep hole country for these kind of unprofessionally individual acts. Even after we lost so good people for not acting when we needed to acting, for the sake of strict RoE and goodwill.

What makes you think that these unprofessionally acted personnel wasn't brought up to court-martial and getting discharged btw ?

????

Please don't worry, it's not aha! case for our spineless enemies.


I don't have time for this thing, those dudes paid their price in the court. For unprofessionalism.

Discharged and punishment applied..

Next...

(No pun intended, please don't take personal)

 

[Aqerdf]

There's a pretty big line between shifting ROEs and executing unarmed militants while taking a video. Pretty sure we can stay between the two.

Do you see systematic out-of-the law actions other than this ?

RoE is part of it, how could you handle that spotter situation?

This things create pressure bulk on personnel. Some personnel will went on enemy, in 1000 to 1case style, and some other personnel will record, because what is this thingy, they called neurons, what's that..?

Agreed on act of unprofessionalism by these individual personnels.

There's no mistake on that.

 

[Bozan]

You make anti Turkish propaganda and playing Western game. Why?

I'm simply making a point based on what I have seen on social media that I think is a serious problem. We already have issues with soldiers using apps like tiktok and opsec.

 

[Bozan]

Reposting without links to any graphic content according to forum rules - sorry moderators.

In TR any kind of court martials or serious disciplinary action is usually done behind closed doors to maintain the reputation of the army (unless it's political).

The problem is when idiots in the army leaks videos like this to social media and there is no public trial, people think the army approves or condones this behaviour, because disciplinary action is usually behind closed doors. This becomes a negative cycle over time.

It is worse when you have keyboard warriors who do not serve and have never seen combat sharing videos like this everywhere. They are usually the same accounts who share martyr names before the governments publicize it.

There was a video in the last few years of soldiers decapitating a PKK body as well and holding the head. Whenever it's on twitter PKK supporters and westerners compare the entire Turkish army to ISIS because of a few people.

I don't know if it is worse that this video was recorded and leaked to social media so people can use it against TR or that even years later, there are keyboard warriors that post it to social media, an international audience, as something to be proud of.

 

[Kartal1]

Guys, I saw some of the posts in the thread. I know very well what you mean and what you are trying to say by posting the content, but there are better ways. Please stay away from posting too graphic content in the thread and respect the PERSEC and OPSEC of the TSK as much as you can. I know, that content can be found easily and there are repeated violations by TSK personnel on this matter, but by posting it we are doing more damage than something good. We should not fall in the trap of anger. Let's try to contribute in other ways.

Thank you!

 

[Bozan]

Guys, I saw some of the posts in the thread. I know very well what you mean and what you are trying to say by posting the content, but there are better ways. Please stay away from posting too graphic content in the thread and respect the PERSEC and OPSEC of the TSK as much as you can. I know, that content can be found easily and there are repeated violations by TSK personnel on this matter, but by posting it we are doing more damage than something good. We should not fall in the trap of anger. Let's try to contribute in other ways.

Thank you

Agreed, but I think we have a serious problem. There are lots of these strange thousand follower accounts. Some of them only post these types of footage. Some only focus on a Turkish audience. Then there are lots of smaller accounts who use this footage in replies to international audiences. Usually PKK supporters, but sometimes westerners. Then it becomes an issue.

And if I was more into x-files, I would begin to think it's coordinated sometimes.

 

[Kartal1]

Agreed, but I think we have a serious problem. There are lots of these strange thousand follower accounts. Some of them only post these types of footage. Some only focus on a Turkish audience. Then there are lots of smaller accounts who use this footage in replies to international audiences. Usually PKK supporters, but sometimes westerners. Then it becomes an issue.

View attachment 64248

And if I was more into x-files, I would begin to think it's coordinated sometimes.

It is in result of the lack of discipline and a wrong motivation. By sharing these images they think that they are doing a moral damage to the terrorists and fulfilling some kind of revenge, but they miss the moment where this footage is used against themselves. I know very well how these small pages operate and I also saw many times how personnel or people related to the personnel in question asks the pages to remove the content, because they are going to face disciplinary charges.

I think this is in result of the weak propaganda capability of our Ministry of National Defence and the Armed Forces as a whole. The personnel feels the gap of propaganda and tries to fill it by themselves. Looking at other armed forces in NATO I rarely see such kind of showoff by soldiers of any armed forces.

First of all the proper motivation should be cultivated to be a member in the armed forces. People with complexes, fulfilling their need for a power status should not be tolerated in the armed forces and proper warrior culture must be established based on discipline and patriotism. Every unit should do it within themselves by forming their unit culture and unique environment. Good example in TSK are the Air Forces.

Second, TSK with cooperation of other decision taking authorities must ensure that OPSEC and PERSEC violations are strictly punished in the harshest ways so the personnel would think twice before sharing sensitive information.

Third, TSK should work on a capable and trained media team which would fill the need for propaganda, boost morale among TSK personnel and the Nation, ensure the creation of properly themed quality content in which the above qualities like the unique warrior culture of different units of the TSK, discipline and positive ideals are strongly encouraged, posts content that is demoralizing to the terrorist organization, in short doing the work of these social media pages in question, but in a safe, strong way, conveying the needed message. Next to the "Mothers are reuniting with their children" there should be "Don't f*ck with us" type of content reminding anybody who the Turkish Armed Forces are. Low quality rap, grandpas in uniforms and "misliyle" type of messages is not appealing at all to me as a young man.

For the first two TSK must work on itself alone, but in the third I am sure partner countries can help. I watched the last documentary by Azerbaijan on the capture of Hadrut. While not the best, I clearly got the message, it was informational enough, visuals were good, professionalism of the personnel and equipment showoff was good and it was a good entertainment for me to watch it. No PERSEC or OPSEC violations and believable narrative pushed in a good way. We lack much of it unfortunately as we can't represent ourselves in the best way and this is giving a birth to inferiority complexes within our personnel that are the reason for the breaching of laws so the personnel can fill the gap in him by sharing the content themselves hoping that they are going to get the recognition they crave. Knowing how our operations against various terrorist organizations and other threats went I can clearly say that our soldiers are no less than any Azerbaijani soldier and the TSK has much to be proud of and has its full right to show off.

 

[Ryder]

You guys expect wars to be civilised.

Seriously wherever you go there will always be fcked up people comitting awful crimes.

State armies and insurgent or even terror groups will commit crimes no matter what.

Islam has its own rules when it comes to war and conduct before the geneva conventions by the way. You really think most Muslims follow this? Muslims themselves will even destroy the villages of their fellow Muslims.

Turkic peoples and the Mongols had their conduct of war but still we would go and raze cities even take the population to slavery or destroy the city.

We seen what the Mongols done to Baghdad.

Regardless of which peoples, races or civilisations and empires. War will always be bloody and awful. Humans will always seek revenge no matter what. After 12 soldiers got martyred by a Piece of shit terrorist group I wont be surprised if some Turkish soldiers gone rogue and conducted their own acts for revenge.

Dont forget how Pkk killed numerous of our soldiers by kidnapping them then executing them. Isis also burnt even beheaded some of our soldiers and placed them on spikes as a trophy.

A lot of our enemies are fcked up. Turkish soldier always has an honour code and a code of conduct that should be followed but man war itself will always fck up people no matter what.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Umm, what Geneva Convention ? And what women ? They didn't get there from mall shopping. This was right after their attack from years years ago ! We lost good people. Regarding conversation, these're not state-outlet. They don't have those privelages after terrorizing my precious country with bomb attacks and what not.

Numbers are there, we don't butcher civilians, surrender-rate is not bad; these are the points for we don't conduct systematic punishment.

You can't black-sheep hole country for these kind of unprofessionally individual acts. Even after we lost so good people for not acting when we needed to acting, for the sake of strict RoE and goodwill.

What makes you think that these unprofessionally acted personnel wasn't brought up to court-martial and getting discharged btw ?

????

Please don't worry, it's not aha! case for our spineless enemies.


I don't have time for this thing, those dudes paid their price in the court. For unprofessionalism.

Discharged and punishment applied..

Next...

(No pun intended, please don't take personal)

It doesn't matter what the Terrorist womens have done that justifies an execution.
This is exactly why the court exists, both women would probably have been sentenced to at least 50-60 years in prison, depending on the situation, probably even life imprisonment.
The soldiers are not judges and executioners, just such actions are enough for the PKK/YPG to increase their reputation, for them the video is like winning the jackpot. Everyone knows how much damage these terrorists have done to Turkey, but the second you do this as a soldier under the flag of Turkey, it is no longer a private crime by some people of weak character.
You are actively harming Turkey, especially if the video goes viral abroad and in Turkey. It would give the impression that war crimes are the order of the day, and Kurdish ultra-leftist opposition groups such as the HDP would be encouraged to put this into the minds of people in Turkey. Images and videos have a huge impact on very young people whose moral compass is not yet properly adjusted, and are very easy to manipulate.

The point is not only to fight the terrorist organization PKK & YPG but also to expose them and completely destroy their reputation.
The PKK & YPG now have a reputation in Germany & Europe that portrays them as freedom fighters, we are talking about very good Advertising & Propaganda.
In Europe, this war is not being spread as a war against terror, but as a war against Kurds in general.
This means that Turkey has not done its homework to portray these people as what they are.
The media have long since got behind them and Turkey is portrayed as an oppressor in its own country and an aggressor that does not respect the rights of the Kurds.

 

[Ryder]

It doesn't matter what the Terrorist womens have done that justifies an execution.
This is exactly why the court exists, both women would probably have been sentenced to at least 50-60 years in prison, depending on the situation, probably even life imprisonment.
The soldiers are not judges and executioners, just such actions are enough for the PKK/YPG to increase their reputation, for them the video is like winning the jackpot. Everyone knows how much damage these terrorists have done to Turkey, but the second you do this as a soldier under the flag of Turkey, it is no longer a private crime by some people of weak character.
You are actively harming Turkey, especially if the video goes viral abroad and in Turkey. It would give the impression that war crimes are the order of the day, and Kurdish ultra-leftist opposition groups such as the HDP would be encouraged to put this into the minds of people in Turkey. Images and videos have a huge impact on very young people whose moral compass is not yet properly adjusted, and are very easy to manipulate.

The point is not only to fight the terrorist organization PKK & YPG but also to expose them and completely destroy their reputation.
The PKK & YPG now have a reputation in Germany & Europe that portrays them as freedom fighters, we are talking about very good Advertising & Propaganda.
In Europe, this war is not being spread as a war against terror, but as a war against Kurds in general.
This means that Turkey has not done its homework to portray these people as what they are.
The media have long since got behind them and Turkey is portrayed as an oppressor in its own country and an aggressor that does not respect the rights of the Kurds.

Bro the Armenian terror gangs before the pkk by the way were all praised as freedom fighters in the Press in Britain, France, Germany, Austria, USA and Russia.

This was during Ottoman times by the way.

As much as we conduct ourselves properly you will never sway public opinion in the West or Europe in general.

Compare our image in Asia, Africa and in South America and compare it to the EU.

Even Australia engages in Turcophobia but its much worse in the Usa and the EU.

 

[RMZN]

Partaking in a terrorist organization should be punished via death penalty, not jail time.

Furthermore western propaganda isnt affected by if pkk terrorists end up behind bars or with a 7.62 in their skulls. They are backing them out of geopolitical necessities, not "morality". The US literally passed a bill that grants the US Government the right to use all means necessary to protect US and allied personnel from prosecution by the ICC. And of course this was passed the year before the invasion of iraq

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Bro the Armenian terror gangs before the pkk by the way were all praised as freedom fighters in the Press in Britain, France, Germany, Austria, USA and Russia.

This was during Ottoman times by the way.

As much as we conduct ourselves properly you will never sway public opinion in the West or Europe in general.

Compare our image in Asia, Africa and in South America and compare it to the EU.

Even Australia engages in Turcophobia but its much worse in the Usa and the EU.

Nowhere is it written that Turks cannot use money and advertising and influence to get themselves into the US Senate and US Media.
The Greeks and Armenians have been successful with this tactic against Turkey for years.
The same game in the German parliament / Bundestag the Left and Greens are infiltrated with PKK / YPG supporters.
Anything is possible with money! They have simply failed to do their homework and think to the left and right.

 

[Ryder]

Nowhere is it written that Turks cannot use money and advertising and influence to get themselves into the US Senate.
The Greeks and Armenians have been successful with this tactic against Turkey for years.
The same game in the German parliament / Bundestag the Left and Greens are infiltrated with PKK / YPG supporters.
Anything is possible with money! They have simply failed to do their homework and think to the left and right.

You cant sway centuries of Turcophobia overnight.

Both the left and right in the USA and Europe are Anti Turk to the core.

Study the age of enlightenment all those progressive thinkers like voltaire will talk about freedom of speech and the freedom of will of every human.

Now look into there works of what they think of certain races in particular the Turks.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

You cant sway centuries of Turcophobia overnight.

Both the left and right in the USA and Europe are Anti Turk to the core.

Study the age of enlightenment all those progressive thinkers like voltaire will talk about freedom of speech and the freedom of will of every human.

Now look into there works of what they think of certain races in particular the Turks.

But that's the point, look at the Jews and Israel! A thoroughly unloved people for Centuries and thier Country, they are not supported by the USA & EU through affection but because they fuck (other ways) the countries if they don't do it. This process didn't happen overnight but they opened up Companies/Media Company & corporations and put people into politics in various countries to protect their interests.

We simply neglected to get it done!

The Armenians have been doing this in Europe and the USA since the eaerly 80s and the reward is the isolation of Turkey!
Instead of whining about how unfair the world is, they could have gotten their rights by investing.
Armenia is destitute and has achieved this by exerting influence on the European and American media landscape through companies and clever businessmen/politicans.
Turkey was a popular country in the USA until mid-70s before the cyprus war.
Especially because of the Korean War.
Then the Greeks and Armenians began to intervene in US politics through their opportunities.

 

[DBdev]

You're just talking stupid, provocative stuff! You justify war crimes with a desire for revenge, no matter what terrorists do, if we are no different from them, then we are no better! So don't talk nonsense and lie to yourselves!
My cousin was Mehmetcik in Turkish army he stepped in a PKK mine and lost both legs and an arm, so don't tell me what pain is! Especially not if you are depressed and want to kill yourself because you only have nightmares and death in front of your eyes like my cousin.
You should rather keep your mouth shut!

This joker just insulted me. Couldn't even control his anger over my relatively polite comment.

And yet once again has audqcity to judge the situation and the context without being there or even in a fight to the death ever in his little wall flower life.

Every nation in every war did 1000 times worse things than battlefield executions LOL.

Our soldiers are kindest to the innocent Kurds, even carrying elderly on their backs and yet without comprimise against the most wicked.

Just like they should be. There was not a single other way to have existed in Anatolia. Still there is not. Instilling fear of death is a must. Otherwise shoot 100 soldiers and then raise your hands?! And he calls me stupid.

 

[Bozan]

This joker just insulted me. Couldn't even control his anger over my relatively polite comment.

And yet once again has audqcity to judge the situation and the context without being there or even in a fight to the death ever in his little wall flower life.

Every nation in every war did 1000 times worse things than battlefield executions LOL.

Our soldiers are kindest to the innocent Kurds, even carrying elderly on their backs and yet without comprimise against the most wicked.

Just like they should be. There was not a single other way to have existed in Anatolia. Still there is not. Instilling fear of death is a must. Otherwise shoot 100 soldiers and then raise your hands?! And he calls me stupid.

1000 acts of kindness would be erased and forgotten by one picture or video. America's war in Iraq is remembered by things like Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse, even though that was a handful of soldiers.

Search "Les dediğin böyle olur " on twitter. See what kinds of things are spread on social media by us to be used against us. We are doing the work of our opponents for them.

 

[Kartal1]

Guys I understand that the discussion can heat up, but we must stay cool headed.

Warnings were given and messages were deleted.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

I would like to apologize to everyone, because the war on terror is generally a very heated debate.
But the fact is that we, Turkey and the Turkish army, should not commit war crimes just because others do. I know there are no clean wars, but if the army and soldiers do this, then we will be blamed forever, because there will be a time after.
The EU & US government are doing everything to drive a wedge between the Kurds and the Turks, living in Turkey they have not succeeded because the majority of the people have smelled a rat, namely the majority do not want this and the Turkish Kurds, who are related by blood and marriage to Turks, live in a symbiosis anyway.
That is why they are now trying to do the same with the Arab Kurds in Syria and Iraq, because these people have no connection to Turkey. They want to establish a state by any means possible that they can control 100% for their own interests as a base for their operations.
They are completely indifferent to the fate of the Kurds, the Turks and the Arabs.

 

[what]

Just a quick reminder that discrimination or insults of any kind and in this context especially against the Turkish-Kurdish population will not be tolerated.