TR Military Operations in Northern Iraq

Glass🚬

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@Cabatli_53 @MisterLike It really has become annoying at this point to constantly refute his false claims which he does on purpose, if u read trough the discussion now u will see that hes not here to have a normal discussion but to troll, bait the people here.

There is now one way, either u will bann him or he will continue to spread misinformation which will have a negative effect on the Forum sooner or later.
 

Glass🚬

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Guys stay on topic and avoid antagonizing please.
The admins should nonetheless have a look at this discussion. He has attempted to white wash the KCK, made multiple times baseless claims and is purposely baiting. I remember that on the other forum that we had red lines when it comes to the pkk as well.
 
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Akhtar

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@Cabatli_53 @MisterLike It really has become annoying at this point to constantly refute his false claims which he does on purpose, if u read trough the discussion now u will see that hes not here to have a normal discussion but to troll, bait the people here.

There is now one way, either u will bann him or he will continue to spread misinformation which will have a negative effect on the Forum sooner or later.

No I simply asked about the claim that the US is directly supporting the PKK ?
 

kimov

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No I simply asked about the claim that the US is directly supporting the PKK ?
Are you seriously claiming that PKK and YPG are different organizations when they share the same leader, same ideology, same fighters, same financiers, same supporters, same goals, same tactics, same weapons, same intelligence channels, same training grounds, same narrative, same media channels and everything else? Is there a single thing which differentiate them?
 

Spook

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Thats irrelevant, having supported the GNA wasnt really seen as any different then the LNA.


The US under Trump didnt care, AFRICOM was merely concerned and probably still is, in the Libyan theatre the US isnt part of this conflict and Spain and Italy are indifferent to Russia. The Russians are still in Al-Jufra and Sirte.


Thats also not true, because of the fact that France is in the EU, where the absolute majority of nations are small, weak and irrelevant it maneuvered together with Greece in a way to align the interests of their nations as EU interests, as a result there is the ongoing operation IRINI which was/is meant as a way to controll and stop Turkish shipments towards misrata and tripoli, they obviously had limited success since some shipments were escorted by Turkish warships while Russians vessels were not searched and basically given free pass.


We didnt have any leverage in Karabakh in fact we arent even part of the minsk group. The whole conflict was not fought diplomatically but with pure hardpower and honestly, the last thing the US, France and Russia care about is if they appear as hypocrites lol


Turkish interests are not those of NATO, we dont care about NATO, the main motivation is the return of Azeri lands, what the Russians plan domestically in armenia is their own thing, we see armenia and especially armenians as a hopeless bunch.



In Syria we also dont hold any leverage, treaties and deals mean little in Syria, the only way u make the opposite sides understand is again trough hard power.



Thats also not true, both the chp and iyi parti have criticized the deployment because it was instant, they wanted to understand why there is a need for a deployment and argumented against it based on the experiences from the syrian civil war, they werent per se agains the deployment and nowadays support it. Actually not much will change post-erdo in regards to geopolitics.

There is a lot of homework u need to do @Spook thats to many errors.

You tagged the wrong person
 
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Akhtar

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Are you seriously claiming that PKK and YPG are different organizations when they share the same leader, same ideology, same fighters, same financiers, same supporters, same goals, same tactics, same weapons, same intelligence channels, same training grounds, same narrative, same media channels and everything else? Is there a single thing which differentiate them?

I didn't claim that at all. Can you tell me how the US is directly supporting the PKK against Turkey, that is all I asked. US has worse media coverage than Russia who killed many Turkish soldiers for decades with their support of PKK due to Perincek Crowd.
 
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Akhtar

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I agree, but that doesn't mean the intelligence institutions aren't supporting these terrorist groups.

So I'll claim that government officials are against terrorist organizations, but they're using the intelligence units etc. to support these terrorists to achieve same goal. it may take longer time, but the result will be the same.

They can continue saying, "we never supported them" while the reality is different. CIA operating and canalizing oil revenue from Syrian oilfields (controlled by YPG/SDF). Is another such example. I really hope Turkey isn't buying the oil tbh.

EDIT: A friend of mine still remembers the CIA accusation that Turkey supported ISIS. even if CIA came out and apologized. He still remembers such accusations.

This is a balanced answer I like, CIA does lots of shady things
 

Saithan

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US is not directly supporting the terror organization PKK. The US has chosen to cooperate with a Syrian organization that identified itself as PYD/YPG upon the issue where PKK members also were in YPG organization the US CENTCOM asked PYD/YPG to change name, where upon they came up with SDF.

Thus when US supports SDF the west pretty much pretend YPG/PKK isn’t existing it’s past/present thus they ignore every complain we have.

 
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kimov

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I didn't claim that at all. Can you tell me how the US is directly supporting the PKK against Turkey, that is all I asked. US has worse media coverage than Russia who killed many Turkish soldiers for decades with their support of PKK due to Perincek Crowd.
So you agree that there is no difference between YPG and PKK but still ask for evidence that USA do support PKK against Turkey?

Would Membic be enough to convince you that USA is actively supporting YPG/PKK against Turkey. First by preventing Turkey to take it and later handing it over to Russians/Assad? Or threatening Turkey with war if we hit YPG in Syria? Btw, this is not some shady CIA plot, this is directly US armed forces. If this does not convince you then nothing will and would give a clear indication of your affinities.
 

Saithan

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So you agree that there is no difference between YPG and PKK but still ask for evidence that USA do support PKK against Turkey?

Would Membic be enough to convince you that USA is actively supporting YPG/PKK against Turkey. First by preventing Turkey to take it and later handing it over to Russians/Assad? Or threatening Turkey with war if we hit YPG in Syria? Btw, this is not some shady CIA plot, this is directly US armed forces. If this does not convince you then nothing will and would give a clear indication of your affinities.
I may have missed out on a crucial information. I were not aware of the threat of war with the US. Could you provide a source, but in the right thread please. This is about PKK in Iraq.
 

Ryder

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So dont be surprised that Canadian weapons ended up in pkk hands.

We all know the Canadians including that libtard Trudeau support the pkk.
 

Saithan

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While I understand where you’re coming from. I have to point out that for politicians or the west it all boils down to this. Mahmur is a UN refugee camp thus they reject any allegation of terrorist organization operates from the camps.

When you are faced with this kind of myogenic you can present them all the evidence you have, they will simply reject it.

This is standard western procedure. Look at the link I provided on YPG changing name.

I can guarentee you that if Osama Bin Laden had changed name to charlie, they would still have hunted him down. Even if alqaeda changed name to flower boys... double standards.

Don’t get annoyed over it, just find a way to destroy their plans.
 
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Akhtar

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US is not directly supporting the terror organization PKK. The US has chosen to cooperate with a Syrian organization that identified itself as PYD/YPG upon the issue where PKK members also were in YPG organization the US CENTCOM asked PYD/YPG to change name, where upon they came up with SDF.

Thus when US supports SDF the west pretty much pretend YPG/PKK isn’t existing it’s past/present thus they ignore every complain we have.


So you agree that there is no difference between YPG and PKK but still ask for evidence that USA do support PKK against Turkey?

Would Membic be enough to convince you that USA is actively supporting YPG/PKK against Turkey. First by preventing Turkey to take it and later handing it over to Russians/Assad? Or threatening Turkey with war if we hit YPG in Syria? Btw, this is not some shady CIA plot, this is directly US armed forces. If this does not convince you then nothing will and would give a clear indication of your affinities.

My intuition is from FSA to YPG, US was looking for a proxy to achieve its own goals in Syria. It is not interested in helping the PKK win against Turkey at all, instead has been hindering the PKK for decades. It does not aid PKK in Northern Iraq at all.


It indirectly supports the PKK by supporting the SDF, but makes efforts to curb PKK influence. Their current strategy is promoting the arab components of the SDF. The YPG do diffuse support with the PKK and YPG is led by former PKK. That is why the Americans have been trying hard with the Barzani talks, because they want to secure this entity in North East Syria and remove PKK where they can. The idealogy stuff does not bother them. Barzani to North East Syria is a good base for containing Iran and with Barzani in control, limits any threat to Turkey.


AKP/MHP do not like this plan. Both for domestic politics, but also because of the developing idealogy stuff, which I think is the real threat. There are millions of Kurds across the border that perceive Turkey negatively and now learn in Kurdish from school to university. They are sympathetic to Kurdish movements. America is not supporting this idealogy, they are there for their logistics and containing Iran, preventing Assad from having the oil. They do not care which proxy is capable of doing so, which is why they started with the FSA first before turning to the YPG. FSA collapsed, split into groups that joined with YPG and groups that went over to be sponsored by Turkey. SDF and SNA formed.


Turkey does not care about the small arms, PKK is hopelessly outmatched no matter how many AK's they take. But idealogically, this is the threat. Because logistics and support. America could do anything to ensure the security of Turkey and here I think there would still be an issue. Because these people exist. It's not just the Ocalan posters. America is not about to start anti-Ocalan camps now with their proxy, the same way we are not strictly vetting the SNA. We have these SNA as retainers because it geopolitically benefits us, but we do not support their cause. Erdogan does not care about beating Assad, only keeping the refugees at bay and dismantling the SDF, because of this idealogy. Since the SNA has been formed they have been prevented from taking ground from Assad and focussed on the SDF.


I think if America supported the PKK against Turkey, they could just delist them and that would be the biggest catastrophe. But no, they undermine them where they can. Syria and Iraq are a huge black market for weapons, this is not exactly something they can control. My complaint is, there is this huge perception that west actively sponsors PKK against Turkey, which I can agree with indirectly. But directly ? Russia and the East have always been the biggest sponsors. Yet they receive so much better coverage in this regard, while relations with America only recently decreased to the point where information sharing stopped as well.


Regarding Membic, America does not trust Turkey or what plans are with the areas it has. Secondly, Russia is also in Membic. America thinks Turkey is working with Russia and if they withdraw Russia and Turkey will take it. Like it is complicated. I imagine if there was a better relationship with trust, America would have wanted Turkey directly in the fight from the start.


One to watch is China, they are establishing themselves with Barzani and I wonder how they will be with the PKK.
 
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Ryder

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Chinese weapons make their way to pkk.

Since we support the Uygurs the Chinese are using the Kurds against us.

Not surprising really.
 

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