TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Radonsider]

I didn't say its not great. Criticism what makes it better, but guys here can't take any. Not even in a single post of mine says it's bad or trash.

Yes, criticism is very important. But MAM-C is not useless, BOZOK is for purposes between MAM-L and MAM-C, they are not looking from pink glasses, it is just MAM-C not being useless.
Also, producing new munitions are good for exports

 

[Yasar_TR]

I would like to remind here to remember @merzifonlu ’s post regarding the future of our airforce, depending on UCAVs. I think the more the number of different missiles like these the merrier. We will find uses for all of them.
But I do agree with @boracetkin that we are very trigger happy in attacking anybody with criticism. However criticism has to be constructive too.
If we go back to the mam-c case; Cirit with it’s high speed (2+Mach) is very effective against light armoured vehicles. Mam-c (Cirit without rocket engine) however with low subsonic free fall speed may not be as effective against armoured vehicles. Same may be the case with Mam-L. Probably this was noticed and Bozok and KAYI were developed. But mam-c will still have it’s place when attacking columns of troop carriers and infantry vehicles, especially with different types of explosives like thermobaric and HE.

 

[Heartbang]

however with low subsonic free fall speed may not be as effective against armoured vehicles. Same may be the case with Mam-L.

isnt it why we certified L-UMTAS to be used with the drones for this job?

 

[Combat-Master]

I didn't say its not great. Criticism what makes it better, but guys here can't take any. Not even in a single post of mine says it's bad or trash.

May I remind you, that you called MAM-C useless and further added in your second post as it's not good, with other dribble in an attempt to refute my post.

MAM-C is useless Bozok will be better compared to it.

A single kill doesn't make it good. We saw what it did to other equipment such as artillery, armored vehicles etc. Warhead is clearly not enough. They found it not enough so SAGE is now producing Bozok.

Now that wasn't enough, you're further schit posting that people can't take criticism... It's not a free ride in this forum, if you post crap prepare to be called out on it.

 

[Siper>MMU]

I would like to remind here to remember @merzifonlu ’s post regarding the future of our airforce, depending on UCAVs. I think the more the number of different missiles like these the merrier. We will find uses for all of them.
But I do agree with @boracetkin that we are very trigger happy in attacking anybody with criticism. However criticism has to be constructive too.
If we go back to the mam-c case; Cirit with it’s high speed (2+Mach) is very effective against light armoured vehicles. Mam-c (Cirit without rocket engine) however with low subsonic free fall speed may not be as effective against armoured vehicles. Same may be the case with Mam-L. Probably this was noticed and Bozok and KAYI were developed. But mam-c will still have it’s place when attacking columns of troop carriers and infantry vehicles, especially with different types of explosives like thermobaric and HE.

Cirit is the best among its counterparts. For example APKWS. Users say its warhead is much more effective, range is higher and missiles general accuracy is superior. What limits the Cirit is its pod. You can't use Cirit without its pod and that limits the missile number to 4 at max.

In the MAM-C's case, the rather slow speed of the munition and the small warhead makes it ineffective against many targets. As we saw in Ukraine before war it wasn't enough for destroying a D30 howitzer. Same carrying capacity as MAM-L. MAM-C is just invading the production line in my opinion. Focusing on MAM-L will both reduce it's cost and will lead to a better MAM-L. For example from the latest TB2 crashes we saw a couple of MAM-L/C munitions. If you look at them you can see that MAM-L is become lighter over years (From 22.5Kg to 19Kg) while MAM-C is at the same weight as before (6.5kg).

 

[Combat-Master]

Polish Airforce Modernisation Presentation;

• The first set of Bayraktar TB2s should be delivered in October 2022.
• Operator training is already underway in Turkey.
• MAM-L and MAM-C have been purchased along with TB2

 

[TheInsider]

MAM-C is not useless it is an assasination munition. It is designed that way to reduce collateral damage as much as possible. It is used to kill a single person or several people who stand very close to each other like when you speak with someone face to face.

 

[Combat-Master]

MAM-C is not useless it is an assasination munition. It is designed that way to reduce collateral damage as much as possible. It is used to kill a single person or several people who stand very close to each other like when you speak with someone face to face.

Pretty sure it was developed where weight considerations was critical. As for the target types, since it utilises the same 3kg warheads of Cirit - it has same target types too.

 

[OPTIMUS]

In the MAM-C's case, the rather slow speed of the munition and the small warhead makes it ineffective against many target

Penetration is independent of the speed of the missile.

You should have known that, as you've been interested in military and defense for quite a long time. Nevertheless, I would like to recommend you some articles about penetration for start.

1) Munroe effect.
2) Misznay Shardin effect

According to my memories, I had explained in a defense forum, detaliert how the high charge shot work with the addition of the knowledge of a Leopard 2 commander from Germany. And at the same time, I had first pointed out what is wrong with the MAM-L and what is right.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

You guys look at the defense industry with pink glasses.

Sorry, mate but you on the other hand, act as if it were your responsibility to deliver the products on time!
Your comments and whining about products or delays totally disrespect all the efforts and sacrifice our defence companies and engineers are willingly displaying.
And why do you have a problem with some who are optimistic? Does everybody here needs to be a Debbie Downer? (wet blanket).
Please curb your pessimism. Just a tad.

 

[Siper>MMU]

Sorry, mate but you on the other hand, act as if it were your responsibility to deliver the products on time!
Your comments and whining about products or delays totally disrespect all the efforts and sacrifice our defence companies and engineers are willingly displaying.
And why do you have a problem with some who are optimistic? Does everybody here needs to be a Debbie Downer? (wet blanket).
Please curb your pessimism. Just a tad.

Dude I want to be an engineer for defence industry why would I do that .

 

[Yasar_TR]

isnt it why we certified L-UMTAS to be used with the drones for this job?

How many L-Umtas can a TB2 carry, Even if it were certified for it?

 

[Radonsider]

How many L-Umtas can a TB2 carry, Even if it were certified for it?

2

 

[Siper>MMU]

UMTAS now has 16km range from helicopters. Integrating 2 of them to a TB2 would make it an absolute SEAD machine. UMTAS will be better because its not limited by the laser designation range.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Dude I want to be an engineer for defence industry why would I do that .

All good brother and I wish you get what you deserve and contribute to our defence industry.
Who knows, you may invent something ground-breaking one day.

 

[Anmdt]

Dude I want to be an engineer for defence industry why would I do that .

Good luck we need fresh and enthusiastic graduates

 

[Anmdt]

Product/Platform	Land	Naval	Submarine	Air
TR(L)G - 122/230/300	Planned	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned(Conceptual) / Planned(Conceptual) / N/A
BORA / KHAN	In use	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	N/A
Cirit 2.75" (70mm) Guided Rocket	In use	In use	N/A	In use
UMTAS	In use	In use	N/A	In use
OMTAS	In use	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned (Conceptual)
KARAOK	In use	Planned (Contract)	N/A	Planned (Conceptual)
UMTAS-ER	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned (Conceptual)
CAKIR Modular, MP Cruise Missile	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Contract)
ATMACA Anti-Ship	Planned (Contract)	In use	Planned (Contract)	N/A
KARA (ATMACA) GLCM	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A
Gezgin Cruise Missile	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)
Kuzgun (TJ / KY / SS)	N/A - Planned(Conceptual) - N/A	Planned (Conceptual) - Planned (Contract) - N/A	N/A	Planned (Contract) - Planned (Conceptual) - Planned (Contract)
Hisar A/O+	In use	N/A	N/A	N/A
Hisar - RF	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A
Siper Block 0 (I)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A
Siper Block 1 (II)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	N/A	N/A
Siper Block 2 (III)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	N/A	N/A
Sungur	In use	Planned (Contract)	N/A	Planned (Contract)
Akdoğan	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned (Contract)
Bozdoğan	N/A	Planned (Contract)	N/A	Planned (Contract)
Gökdoğan	N/A	TBD	N/A	Planned (Contract)

Cross-platform availability of the missile products. Platform indicates the environment which a platform primarily operates, not the force which it operates under (ie. air platform doesn't have to be linked with air-force)
N/A - Not available
TBD - To be disclosed in future
In Use - The product is in use, had trials passed
Planned (Contract) - There is an ongoing contract for development and supply
Planned (Conceptual) - It is planned to adapt in conceptual stage, no contract is available.

**dropped few easter-eggs in here

 

[Era_shield]

I didn't say its not great. Criticism what makes it better, but guys here can't take any. Not even in a single post of mine says it's bad or trash.

Stop posting ignorant garbage on this forum.

 

[Osman]

Product/Platform	Land	Naval	Submarine	Air
TR(L)G - 122/230/300	Planned	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned(Conceptual) / Planned(Conceptual) / N/A
BORA / KHAN	In use	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	N/A
Cirit 2.75" (70mm) Guided Rocket	In use	In use	N/A	In use
UMTAS	In use	In use	N/A	In use
OMTAS	In use	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned (Conceptual)
KARAOK	In use	Planned (Contract)	N/A	Planned (Conceptual)
UMTAS-ER	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned (Conceptual)
CAKIR Modular, MP Cruise Missile	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Contract)
ATMACA Anti-Ship	Planned (Contract)	In use	Planned (Contract)	N/A
KARA (ATMACA) GLCM	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A
Gezgin Cruise Missile	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)
Kuzgun (TJ / KY / SS)	N/A - Planned(Conceptual) - N/A	Planned (Conceptual) - Planned (Contract) - N/A	N/A	Planned (Contract) - Planned (Conceptual) - Planned (Contract)
Hisar A/O+	In use	N/A	N/A	N/A
Hisar - RF	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A
Siper Block 0 (I)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A
Siper Block 1 (II)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	N/A	N/A
Siper Block 2 (III)	Planned (Contract)	Planned (Contract)	N/A	N/A
Sungur	In use	Planned (Contract)	N/A	Planned (Contract)
Akdoğan	Planned (Conceptual)	Planned (Conceptual)	N/A	Planned (Contract)
Bozdoğan	N/A	Planned (Contract)	N/A	Planned (Contract)
Gökdoğan	N/A	TBD	N/A	Planned (Contract)

Cross-platform availability of the missile products. Platform indicates the environment which a platform primarily operates, not the force which it operates under (ie. air platform doesn't have to be linked with air-force)
N/A - Not available
TBD - To be disclosed in future
In Use - The product is in use, had trials passed
Planned (Contract) - There is an ongoing contract for development and supply
Planned (Conceptual) - It is planned to adapt in conceptual stage, no contract is available.

**dropped few easter-eggs in here

May I ask some questions:

As far as I know Umtas er is available now because Mr Demir said the range of Umtas has been improved to 16 km. Did you mean Umtas NLOS?

How gezgin will be used by Air force?

What about SOM variants and SOM ER?

 

[UkroTurk]

Hisar - RF

Planned (Conceptual)

Siper Block 0

Planned (conceptual)

SUBMARINE LAUNCHED!!!!????

Again Turkish defence industry will change war doctrines!

We could see air defense subs