TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Fighter_35]

Question: Does a rocket launched towards the east burn less fuel for the same distance than a rocket launched towards the west?

In other words, does the rocket travel a longer distance towards the east, say 3000km while it can travel 2700km towards the west?

If you fire in the east direction, you can go more distance.

 

[Nutuk]

Sure turning of the world adds up to the distance, flying to the US takes longer than flying back

 

[Anmdt]

Sure turning of the world adds up to the distance, flying to the US takes longer than flying back

It should be due to the winds (jet stream) not the rotation of the earth, however jet streams are a result of earth's rotation, so indirectly related.

Question: Does a rocket launched towards the east burn less fuel for the same distance than a rocket launched towards the west?

If you are trying to go up in the space ie; use missile's net speed to gain altitude-centrifugal force then yes. Otherwise, it is same (nearly) unless you intend to ride jet-streams in certain regions, which is not applicable for missiles.

 

[Zafer]

To be more specific, can a ballistic missile that can go to 2500 distance towards the west go to 3000km distance towards the east? There maybe forces working for or against the missile but at the end is this a known fact that the missile goes further in one direction than the other?

 

[Yasar_TR]

As @Anmdt has explained if the missile is in space in an easterly launch, then it needs less speed to reach same distance. When placing a satellite in space, if you launch easterly, since earth rotates from west to east at 1000miles per hour, you don’t need as much speed as you would if you were to launch westerly.
If your missile is in atmosphere during flight, it won’t make any difference. Only force that may affect the missile is the jet stream.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Great news!

Yildirim (150km)
Bora/Khan (+2x more range than Yildirim)
Tayfun (+2x more range than Bora)
Cenk
Unknown system

Considering that there is a range increase of more than 2x at new missiles, it can be seen where Cenk sit within range targets announced by president before. Some warhead, navigation and guidance technologies which will make a ballistic missile much more effective as described by Mr. Ismail Demir take time.

During the interview Mr Demir mentioned two very important points in between the lines:
1. Capabilities of the missiles are also being improved as well as sub systems (probably regarding seeker heads for moving targets, manoeuvrability and accuracy plus launch systems).
2. Speed of newer missiles being higher; “hypersonic” was the word he used. Well, for Tayfun for example , to achieve a near 4.5 Mach average speed, it must have travelled most of it’s mid course at hypersonic speeds. (That is if it had a suppressed trajectory. If it didn’t then it must have been flying at hypersonic average speeds)

 

[Baryshx]

After having a missile technology and establishing its ecosystem, there is no reason why the missiles should not continue.

Most likely, it is ready at the 10.000 km missile, but it is on the computer, not in the inventory.

 

[zio]

New tech give balistic missiles more accurate less than 10-30 mt,so ıf you get that accuracy its logic to make a 1000-1500 km missiles,and also you can use 1000km missile at 700 km,because it is hard to stop it than 700km limit missiles

 

[Baryshx]

Türk hero Nutuk in the Waff forum said; "Ballistic missiles with long range make sense when they have a nuclear warhead, otherwise it has not much impact compared to it's cost."

Dear Nutuk, maybe not! Because nuclear weapons burn and destroy everything, leaving no usable loot.

Is that all? No. It also leaves behind uncontrolled radioactive pollution.

However, chemical or biological weapons are both lethal and more controlled for later.

Let's get things done with a thermobaric bomb called the Grandfather of All Bombs

 

[Ripley]

I think the naming comes from: "Hazır ol cenk-ü cidale istersen sulh-u Salah"

Nope, it’s named after me
I just thought I’d better come clean before the president make another “blunder” and spill the beans again at god knows where and spoil it for me

Edit: seriously it’s my name and I think I like it

 

[dBSPL]

Acoording to İsmail Demir's statement, Cenk's real name is Project-C.

I leave it to you to what C is

 

[Radonsider]

Acoording to İsmail Demir's statement, Cenk's real name is Project-C.

I leave it to you to what C is

Bora was Project-B
Soo Tayfun is improved Bora

And Project-C should be the MRBM

 

[dBSPL]

Bora was Project-B
Soo Tayfun is improved Bora

And Project-C should be the MRBM

Bora and Tayfun missiles probably have the same interface. Even TEL vehicles probably same. So I think the same as you. Project C may refer to an another generation and architecture.

 

[dBSPL]

Juicy - CENK | Pretty much is confirmed to being a Ballistic Missile and a step above Typhoon

In addition to CENK, two other important anecdotes:

1. Air defense against threats from space (ICBM?) is in the works and there is a roadmap.
2. The unmanned fighter jets(here the plural suffix is specifically used) that will come after KIZILELMA will start to appear in 2023.

 

[Baryshx]

Circle is important in ballistic missiles what would be the estimation of CENK's range?

I'd like the MRBM to push its limits, but it's usually like we're going in the middle.

 

[Radonsider]

In addition to CENK, two other important anecdotes:

1. Air defense against threats from space (ICBM?) is in the works and there is a roadmap.
2. The unmanned fighter jets(here the plural suffix is specifically used) that will come after KIZILELMA will start to appear in 2023.

Yes, ICBMs,

Siper ABM will be an Exo-atmospheric one, not like PAC-3 or S-400 or Aster-30, it will be much more capable (especially against MRBMs and ICBMs

 

[Radonsider]

Yes, ICBMs,

Siper ABM will be an Exo-atmospheric one, not like PAC-3 or S-400 or Aster-30, it will be much more capable (especially against MRBMs and ICBMs

Another thing that comes to my mind is, Siper is way ahead in development than we know, because 2026 target would be simply unachievable, and thus explain why Indonesia bought it event thought they could have gone with safer options like Aster-30 or K-SAM

 

[Anmdt]

Another thing that comes to my mind is, Siper is way ahead in development than we know, because 2026 target would be simply unachievable, and thus explain why Indonesia bought it event thought they could have gone with safer options like Aster-30 or K-SAM

Let's wrap it up,
Siper Block-0 is Long range AD missile, will be in inventory in 2023
*Siper Block-1 is Long range -high altitude AD missile, will have trials in 2023 and likely in inventory by end of the year
Siper Block-2, Siper Block-1 with BMD capabilities similar to PAC-3, possibly will be tried within 2023-2024 and in inventory by end of 2024
*Siper Block-3, a whole new missile for BMD

* indicates a whole new missile, Siper Block-0 is based on Hisar-RF, or Hisar-Nokta, or Hisar-Naval, Siper Block-2 is based on Block-1, etc.
My spider senses also tell Siper Block-1 has already had several tests for ballistic launching, vertical launching etc. simple set to begin with.

Siper Block-3 will also require new kind of radar in lower frequency band ( compared to Block-0 to 2's S and X band radars) for early warning. likely in L band and later in V/UHF that Tubitak has reported to be working on both, at the moment.

 

[Radonsider]

Another thing that comes to my mind is, Siper is way ahead in development than we know, because 2026 target would be simply unachievable, and thus explain why Indonesia bought it event thought they could have gone with safer options like Aster-30 or K-SAM

Sorry for too many "reply" and thread like posts but I think doing this with editing would make the additions get lost.


As I said with my previous post, Siper should be more advanced than we know, to have Exo-atmospheric, AND in 2026.

What I wonder, does the current, or 150km Block 1 variant have any capability against BMs, albeit against SRBMs and TBMs,

I do remember an interview, where Ismail Demir stated Siper's ABM capability was limited, he didn't say it didn't have ABM capabilities, and I wonder what's that "limited" is.

Do we consider Exo-atmospheric as ABM? If yes, Siper B1 or Siper Ürün 1 would have a PAC-3/MSE like capability, engaging them around 30-50km,

If not, it does not make any sense, we can't intercept Endo-atmospheric BMs, some MRBMs and SRBMs (+TBMs) with an Exo-atmospheric interceptor (as they solely rely on guidence in space and not atmosphere), so we would have a very, very big and dangerous gap.

So this is why I currently think Siper B1 has or would have capability against TBMs and SRBMs

 

[Radonsider]

Let's wrap it up,
Siper Block-0 is Long range AD missile, will be in inventory in 2023
*Siper Block-1 is Long range -high altitude AD missile, will have trials in 2023 and likely in inventory by end of the year
Siper Block-2, Siper Block-1 with BMD capabilities similar to PAC-3, possibly will be tried within 2023-2024 and in inventory by end of 2024
*Siper Block-3, a whole new missile for BMD

* indicates a whole new missile, Siper Block-0 is based on Hisar-RF, or Hisar-Nokta, or Hisar-Naval, Siper Block-2 is based on Block-1, etc.
My spider senses also tell Siper Block-1 has already had several tests for ballistic launching, vertical launching etc. simple set to begin with.

Siper Block-3 will also require new kind of radar in lower frequency band ( compared to Block-0 to 2's S and X band radars) for early warning. likely in L band and later in V/UHF that Tubitak has reported to be working on both, at the moment.

Possibly this is the case, tho I thought Siper Block 2 would be Siper Block 1 with naval usage, so that's why I classified Siper Block 1 with similar capabilities with PAC-3 MSE/Aster-30, but yours also make sense, probably more realistic than mine