TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Balamir]

Heavy, bulky and far too complex of a missile for urban warfare. Yatağan is smaller, can be fired from readily available 40mm grenade launchers, more of them can be carried and simpler thus cheaper to make more of.

Cida made no sense when Yatağan was already being developed.

Both are products in different classes for different purposes. Yatağan is mostly for anti-personnel use. It is a solution that is becoming a new trend among the 40mm under-rifle bomb and AT4-like rocket launchers. The aim is to use such a system not only under a rifle but also in systems such as Drone and UGV. CIDA was developed to be used in urban conflicts against very light armored vehicles or buildings deployed between advanced anti-tank missiles and rocket launchers such as AT4. The reason why CIDA is heavier is that it has a larger diameter and amount of explosives. When looking at the products close to its class and during the urban conflict, CIDA is heavy compared to the benefits it will provide to the personnel.

Being able to use multi-purpose and thermobaric warhead is another important ability of CIDA.

 

[Combat-Master]

Both are products in different classes for different purposes. Yatağan is mostly for anti-personnel use. It is a solution that is becoming a new trend among the 40mm under-rifle bomb and AT4-like rocket launchers. The aim is to use such a system not only under a rifle but also in systems such as Drone and UGV. CIDA was developed to be used in urban conflicts against very light armored vehicles or buildings deployed between advanced anti-tank missiles and rocket launchers such as AT4. The reason why CIDA is heavier is that it has a larger diameter and amount of explosives. When looking at the products close to its class and during the urban conflict, CIDA is heavy compared to the benefits it will provide to the personnel.

Being able to use multi-purpose and thermobaric head is another important ability of CIDA.

I don't know why you believe CIDA had a role outside of Anti-Personnel. For one, CIDA was being developed to have Inertial guidance as it's primary mid-and-terminal guidance. If the missile was being developed outside of Anti-Personnel they would have developed it with Semi-Active laser seeker, except Semi-Active Laser guidance was as an after thought. CIDA made use of the Cirit's warheads, hence why it is advertised to have such a versatile mix of warheads.

Yatağan can do all of what Cida can do with the addition of having semi-active laser seeker for increased accuracy and possibly target slow moving vehicles. The warhead may be smaller, but it's certainly enough for "very light-armoured vehicles" as we have witnessed ISIS using 35mm grenades dropped from quad-copters onto Iraqi HMMWV and scoring total losses for the Iraqis.

Cida was basically an Anti-Personnel smaller (diameter) equivalent of FGM-172 SRAW and NLAW .

 

[Balamir]

I don't know why you believe CIDA had a role outside of Anti-Personnel. For one, CIDA was being developed to have Inertial guidance as it's primary mid-and-terminal guidance. If the missile was being developed outside of Anti-Personnel they would have developed it with Semi-Active laser seeker, except Semi-Active Laser guidance was as an after thought. CIDA made use of the Cirit's warheads, hence why it is advertised to have such a versatile mix of warheads.

Yatağan can do all of what Cida can do with the addition of having semi-active laser seeker for increased accuracy and possibly target slow moving vehicles. The warhead may be smaller, but it's certainly enough for "very light-armoured vehicles" as we have witnessed ISIS using 35mm grenades dropped from quad-copters onto Iraqi HMMWV and scoring total losses for the Iraqis.

Cida was basically an Anti-Personnel smaller (diameter) equivalent of FGM-172 SRAW and NLAW .

 

[Combat-Master]

View attachment 10595

"Token" anti-armour, like 40mm HEDP

 

[Era_shield]

Especially in conventional warfare, where enemy has soft kill systems, fire and forget etc. is not going to be as reliable as wired guidance

Fiber optic data link cannot be jammed unlike other guidance systems. Its not an old system. Spike Family, French MMP etc. have fiber optic guidance capability.

The data link can't be jammed but the guidance loop itself still can be. The launcher needs to see the missile to compute the guidance correction, which is why the ATGM has a flare or other emitter behind it. The target can jam the the ATGM by either blinding the launcher so it can't see the flare or tricking it into thinking the flare is moving when it's not. Also, the RF data link to an ATGM can be made fairly resistant to jamming. These things are always a cat and mouse game. The important thing is to keep innovating so you can stay one step ahead of the adversary.

 

[Turko]

"Token" anti-armour, like 40mm HEDP
View attachment 10596

Antiarmour ammunition shouldnt be direct fired?

 

[Kartal1]

It is maybe a little bit off topic but want to add that I think like @Combat-Master . It is to bulky for what it does. There is a Turkish company which is developing recoilless rifles including Carl Gustaf copy. I think Carl Gustav can do everything that CIDA would have done including firing smart munitions on a less bulky, proven design with perfect firepower output and light weight.

I imagine the perfect tek-er portable and smart explosive projectile tree that would be useful in urban warfare as following:
40mm Yatagan, modernized and lightened version of Carl Gustavfcomparable to the M4 specs capable of firing guided munitions, Kara Ok with its capability for engaging targets at far range for metropole use and covering of large sectors and roadways from higher ground.

 

[Balamir]

"Token" anti-armour, like 40mm HEDP
View attachment 10596

Congratulations my friend. Because you can weigh the CIDA on the same scale with a 40mm ammunition that can penetrate the 5cm thick historic STEEL ARMOR at a distance of 27m at 5m diameter.

 

[Combat-Master]

Congratulations my friend. Because you can weigh the CIDA on the same scale with a 40mm ammunition that can penetrate the 5cm thick historic STEEL ARMOR at a distance of 27m at 5m diameter.

Yes, because we know that Cirit Tri-Mode warhead is capable of penetrating 3cm.

 

[Balamir]

Yes, because we know that Cirit Tri-Mode warhead is capable of penetrating 3cm.

3 cm? Good luck, the debate is closed for me.

Recent Developments in the ANKA UAS Programme

Designed, developed and produced by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) under the Turkish UAV Development (TIHA/TUAV) Project, the ANKA (Phoenix) is a combat-proven Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAS. Successfully deployed by the Turkish Armed Forces (TAF) during Operation Olive Bran...

www.monch.com

 

[Test7]

Medium Range Anti-Tank Missile OMTAS acceptance activities continue

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346133383349493765

 

[Oublious]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346083938469601281

 

[Combat-Master]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346083938469601281

Perfect, even Azerbaijan got ahead of US with this type of combined operation. Of course, the beginnings being Turkey with Cirit missiles

 

[Oublious]

Perfect, even Azerbaijan got ahead of US with this type of combined operation. Of course, the beginnings being Turkey with Cirit missiles

View attachment 10613

Maybe it is crazy what i am saying but could we use this system with Ballistic Missiles? Imagine a stealth uav penetrate enemy airspace and spot target?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

It seems OMTAS was ordered by Navy too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346134442419630080

 

[Quasar]

There is a Turkish company which is developing recoilless rifles including Carl Gustaf copy.

very interesting would love to hear more could you please share more details like the name of the company! since I strongly belive that we are in need of such a simple and felexable weapon for our common infantary, marines and Special forces alike. (though special forces already have Carl Gustaf )

 

[Tornadoss]

It seems OMTAS was ordered by Navy too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1346134442419630080

For amphibious units?

 

[Kartal1]

very interesting would love to hear more could you please share more details like the name of the company! since I strongly belive that we are in need of such a simple and felexable weapon for our common infantary, marines and Special forces alike. (though special forces already have Carl Gustaf )

The company's name is ASSAV and they have wide variety of products. From manufacturing of MK family bomb components to mortars and recoilless guns. Even SARB-83 is in their products page.

ASSAV – Söz verdiğimiz gibi üretiyoruz.

assav.com.tr

 

[AzeriTank]

If jamming was such a concern, we wouldn't be seeing air-to-air or surface-to-air missiles using such RF data-links for mid-course guidance. Yes, it can be a problem, but likely jamming the frequencies that the missiles use to communicate on is going to lead the adversary to jam themselves too. The fact that Turkey owns it's own data-links and can change the operational frequencies more readily, is key to seeing more missiles being data-linked with R/F.

Raytheon: Raytheon delivering wireless TOW missiles to US Army - Aug 21, 2019

Operates four businesses. Technology and innovation leader specializing in defense, security and civil markets throughout the world.

raytheon.mediaroom.com

bro you are mixing datalink with a simple radio waves.. there is a reason each air to air missiles cost more than1000000$. if you want to put the same amount of money on anti tank missile, it doesnt make sense.. also too small for that

 

[Turko]

The company's name is ASSAV and they have wide variety of products. From manufacturing of MK family bomb components to mortars and recoilless guns. Even SARB-83 is in their products page.

View attachment 10630
View attachment 10631

ASSAV – Söz verdiğimiz gibi üretiyoruz.

assav.com.tr

We developed enough guided missiles but Turkish Army needs also indigenous rocket propelled granades or recoilless gun. As you guess I'd go for Carl Gustav.